"go play retail then" is getting old

[ManiaCCC]

I'm betting its a lot more annoying to the classic player base to have people like you trying to alter the desired classic experience by trying to rally support for QOL adjustments that didn't exist in vanilla.

but he is still right. These "purists" are so locked into their mindset, I am not sure, there could be some interesting dialogue with them.

On reddit few weeks ago: Guys, could WoW Classic have WotLK distance view settings? Response? NO! IT WOULD RUIN VANILLA EXPERIENCE!

Yea sure.

I think people, who want some QoL changes or any changes in fact for Classic should ignore these purist altogether, we already know their dumb stance, and just address these suggestions directly to Blizzard. Most of the suggestions wont be implemented, that's granted, however if people show enough support for some ideas, they may consider it, as long as it wont ruin whole idea behind classic server (for real this time).

[Forogil]

Why it seems doubtful to you? Actually I believe otherwise is true. Most of the people, who lived through Vanilla recognize, that Vanilla WoW is a shit in some aspects.

That is true, but the my point was that I doubt that the majority of those who want classic actually have played it. To me it seems that many are basing their vanilla-experience on 2nd hand sources - or "almost vanilla servers".

I didn't talk specifically about the majority of those who want classic with QoL-changes.

[ManiaCCC]

That is true, but the my point was that I doubt that the majority of those who want classic actually have played it. To me it seems that many are basing their vanilla-experience on 2nd hand sources - or "almost vanilla servers".

I didn't talk specifically about the majority of those who want classic with QoL-changes.

Well, interesting proposition. I guess we will never know if this si true or not, however, from reactions across the internet, I tend to believe, that people, who never played Vanilla WoW couldn't care less about it. But that's just my point of view.

[Forogil]

Well, interesting proposition. I guess we will never know if this si true or not, however, from reactions across the internet, I tend to believe, that people, who never played Vanilla WoW couldn't care less about it. But that's just my point of view.

One would think that, but there is at least one thread started by someone who claims that they didn't play Vanilla and wants to.

There are also many who think they played Vanilla WoW - but didn't.

[Aliven]

but he is still right. These "purists" are so locked into their mindset, I am not sure, there could be some interesting dialogue with them.

On reddit few weeks ago: Guys, could WoW Classic have WotLK distance view settings? Response? NO! IT WOULD RUIN VANILLA EXPERIENCE!

Yea sure.

I think people, who want some QoL changes or any changes in fact for Classic should ignore these purist altogether, we already know their dumb stance, and just address these suggestions directly to Blizzard. Most of the suggestions wont be implemented, that's granted, however if people show enough support for some ideas, they may consider it, as long as it wont ruin whole idea behind classic server (for real this time).

Agree. Close minded zealots should be ignored or at best mocked up.

[davesurfer]

I forgot about the loot error thing. The postman is criminally underappreciated by the community.

People are way too anal about having it exactly the way it was, complete with bugs and horrible design that added absolutely nothing to the game. Can you people honestly look at me and say that manually right clicking 50 corpses you just AoEd down makes the experience more immersive? More fun? More social?


If an old "feature" added nothing but wrist pain, we're better off without it.

Who in Vanilla could AOE huge packs? Maybe I am wrong but I remember when you pulled more than 3 mobs you came close to dying. Wasn’t it Wrath before you could pull big packs solo?

[BraveNewWorld]

Who in Vanilla could AOE huge packs? Maybe I am wrong but I remember when you pulled more than 3 mobs you came close to dying. Wasn’t it Wrath before you could pull big packs solo?

If I remember, frost mages could. Blizzard slowed everything and you could just kite them forever

[Zapp]

If I remember, frost mages could. Blizzard slowed everything and you could just kite them forever

Mages solo'ed trash groups in Zul'Gurub for loot-tokens.

[Gforcez]

It's WoW Classic. Therefore it's presumed that what you want is CLASSIC. That means without LFD, without transmog, without new models, without aoe looting, without dual spec. That's the whole point.

This is fine, but then don't expect rebalancing, fixing old bugs or any sort of updates.. If you want classic, take the version it was back then, even if it's a buggy mess by todays standards.

[evogsr]

but he is still right. These "purists" are so locked into their mindset, I am not sure, there could be some interesting dialogue with them.

On reddit few weeks ago: Guys, could WoW Classic have WotLK distance view settings? Response? NO! IT WOULD RUIN VANILLA EXPERIENCE!

Yea sure.

I think people, who want some QoL changes or any changes in fact for Classic should ignore these purist altogether, we already know their dumb stance, and just address these suggestions directly to Blizzard. Most of the suggestions wont be implemented, that's granted, however if people show enough support for some ideas, they may consider it, as long as it wont ruin whole idea behind classic server (for real this time).

Your post exemplifies why "purists" shut you down. Opinions/demands on QoL always are lofty, intelligent, and have considered every possible outcome of how it would and could effect gameplay negatively for how the game was designed(sarcasm), but anyone who takes a stance on wanting to play the game as it was then, well that's just a "dumb stance". Top jest mate.

Nost was closed down and Classic was announced because Blizzard saw a very large untapped market. Tens of thousands of players over the years have been playing on servers just like Nost. It just happened that to date, Nost had been the best iteration of a Vanilla server. More time away and the lure of playing Vanilla again became stronger. Simply put, there are a lot of reasons why Nost was more popular than other Vanilla private servers. When someone states "because it was free" is always and fully unsupported by any actual evidence. There are dozens of private servers that are free at every expansion installment and yet none of them to date has ever been anywhere as popular as Nost. There are no private servers and never have been that host BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, and even currently Legion that have been a fraction as popular as Nost was. That fact alone flies in the face that money has anything to do with it and everything to do with a very large grouping of players enjoying the game as it was then.

The amount of players who wish to play Classic+ or Vanilla remastered are indeed the unknown figure. You and they are the minority. Quite frankly, from an obvious business standpoint, it's not at all in Blizzards vested business interests to attempt to reach an unknown group of players while completely cutting the large & known group of players out. Blizzard likely never lost you and of course they have metrics to determine that. Not even EA would do something as autistic as that.

[In Ogres We Trust]

I'm sure it boils down to 2 reasons why they are so against xmog. 1) So they can show off in SW/Org about how much raiding they do. 2) So they know who to attack on a PvP server so they don't get fucked up.

You'd think they'd stop to realize that not everyone players on a PvP server and that people (yes, even in Vanilla) don't give a flying fuck what someone is wearing and want to style their character how they wish.

It's unlikely to have PvP servers; instead, it'll have the new tech. for servers that they're rolling out in BfA.

- - - Updated - - -

If they aren't raiding, transmog seems pretty pointless, no?

Transmog discussion is completely circular and I've yet to see anyone raise a remotely intelligent rationale by why it should be included.

Stated earlier, transmog would certainly have a massive negative effect in the raiding environment by giving players an actual ingame justification for bidding/rolling on items that are not meant for their class. Putting their raid at a disadvantage because some scrub wants their character to look good in the low-res vanilla textured armor/weapons.

Go find another game to play skin collector in. Or at least come up with an argument something more than "gibs me dat".

There's this thing... I don't know... called MASTER LOOTER. In essence, your argument has no legs.

- - - Updated - - -

The claim is accurate. No. One. Has. Raised. A. Good. Point. And the only point that continues to be raised is "Muh appearance."

Look, I get that you're short sighted enough to not understand how the implementation of such a system would have a noticeable effect in a game world that wasn't created for such a system at that time, but let's not split hairs here. Go down the list of vanilladb and take a gander at the lack of variety of models between green and blue gear based on armor type / weapon type. The depth of variety is abysmal. Stop making up shit to fit your narrative.

Exactly what system did most guilds use to distribute gear then among the raid, goy?

"Muh... appearance... " is the entire point behind X-Mog.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess when you can't debate, you just make insinuations and jump to ridiculous conclusions in some laughable attempt to twist words. Retail forums thattaway lightweight. -->

Troll much?

[evogsr]

It's unlikely to have PvP servers; instead, it'll have the new tech. for servers that they're rolling out in BfA.

- - - Updated - - -



There's this thing... I don't know... called MASTER LOOTER. In essence, your argument has no legs.

Which would suggest, as an example, a hunter coming out of a raid with a Crul'Shorukh, who didn't have master loot - never actually happened.

In essence, your argument has no legs. Truly.

- - - Updated - - -

Troll much?

"Opinions I don't agree with and can't form a substantive argument against are troll."

That's some good kek.

[ManiaCCC]

Your post exemplifies why "purists" shut you down. Opinions/demands on QoL always are lofty, intelligent, and have considered every possible outcome of how it would and could effect gameplay negatively for how the game was designed(sarcasm), but anyone who takes a stance on wanting to play the game as it was then, well that's just a "dumb stance". Top jest mate.

Nost was closed down and Classic was announced because Blizzard saw a very large untapped market. Tens of thousands of players over the years have been playing on servers just like Nost. It just happened that to date, Nost had been the best iteration of a Vanilla server. More time away and the lure of playing Vanilla again became stronger. Simply put, there are a lot of reasons why Nost was more popular than other Vanilla private servers. When someone states "because it was free" is always and fully unsupported by any actual evidence. There are dozens of private servers that are free at every expansion installment and yet none of them to date has ever been anywhere as popular as Nost. There are no private servers and never have been that host BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, and even currently Legion that have been a fraction as popular as Nost was. That fact alone flies in the face that money has anything to do with it and everything to do with a very large grouping of players enjoying the game as it was then.

The amount of players who wish to play Classic+ or Vanilla remastered are indeed the unknown figure. You and they are the minority. Quite frankly, from an obvious business standpoint, it's not at all in Blizzards vested business interests to attempt to reach an unknown group of players while completely cutting the large & known group of players out. Blizzard likely never lost you and of course they have metrics to determine that. Not even EA would do something as autistic as that. .

Well, funny thing you mentioned Nost as most popular, but even they made several QoL changes, many things were not "blizzlike", yet, it was still popular. I will be bold here and say that many, if not the most, purist, in fact, have no idea what they really want, what made Vanilla wow so great, why many people (even non-purist) want Classic servers to happen. That's just from observation.

To be fair, if someone want discuss why they prefer Vanilla way over some QoL changes, or at least make some solid argument, why some discussed changes are bad for the game and players, I don't mind "purists" like these and I am happy to discuss that and maybe even change my point of view (already did few times). But in moment, when someone will just say "BECAUSE IT WASN'T IN VANILLA" or "PLAY RETAIL SCRUB", I just ignore these because they are frankly not worth anyone's time...not even blizzard's.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Anyways, Classic Remastered - and this is my own title for upcoming release - will have:

Updated Graphics
Updated UI
Updated Mail
Updated Character/NPC Models
Bug Fixes

And, above all else, minor QoL adjustments:

Guild Bank
Reagent Bank (Maybe)
X-Mog (Seriously... the arguments against it are without merit.)
Achievements
Collection Systems (Mount, pets, etc... who wants to store this crap in their bags?)
Improved Stack Size (I don't know... there's an argument to be made about inventory management.)
Reduced Raid Sizes (25-Player)

Honestly, as a "Vanilla" player - as if that means anything, you can't tell me that those additions are game breaking.

[hulkgor]

Anyways, Classic Remastered - and this is my own title for upcoming release - will have:

Updated Graphics
Updated UI
Updated Mail
Updated Character/NPC Models
Bug Fixes

And, above all else, minor QoL adjustments:

Guild Bank
Reagent Bank (Maybe)
X-Mog (Seriously... the arguments against it are without merit.)
Achievements
Collection Systems (Mount, pets, etc... who wants to store this crap in their bags?)
Improved Stack Size (I don't know... there's an argument to be made about inventory management.)
Reduced Raid Sizes (25-Player)

Honestly, as a "Vanilla" player - as if that means anything, you can't tell me that those additions are game breaking.

That is laughable throughout. Seriously, that completely defeats the fucking point.

[In Ogres We Trust]

That is laughable throughout. Seriously, that completely defeats the fucking point.

How so? Elaborate.

- - - Updated - - -

We're attempting to recreate the "Vanilla" experience - which, to me, means the community and overall feeling. There's a fine line between game breaking (LFD, LFR, Coalesced Realms, etc.) and game enhancing (being able to mail multiple items at once... which wasn't a thing to start, etc.). Also, to the "purists" do you want Stratholme and UBRS as a dungeon or as a raid... because, in the beginning, they were both?

[evogsr]

How so? Elaborate.

Why should he?

When you post something as indigo-level as this:

X-Mog (Seriously... the arguments against it are without merit.)

I know you won't see the double standard.

[ManiaCCC]

Why should he?

When you post something as indigo-level as this:



I know you won't see the double standard.

I am also interested to know why you think it would defeat the point of Classic servers. And while I have my own reservation about whole X-mog, (and I don't want see in classic), why you think x-mog for example is bad?

[hulkgor]

How so? Elaborate.

- - - Updated - - -

We're attempting to recreate the "Vanilla" experience - which, to me, means the community and overall feeling. There's a fine line between game breaking (LFD, LFR, Coalesced Realms, etc.) and game enhancing (being able to mail multiple items at once... which wasn't a thing to start, etc.). Also, to the "purists" do you want Stratholme and UBRS as a dungeon or as a raid... because, in the beginning, they were both?

How are all those QOL improvements important, relevant or actually NOT detrimental for the actual vanilla experience?

It's actually simple. If all those QOL improvements matter so much to you, play the current version. Don't try and bring every immersion-breaking feature into a world they did not exist and are the primary reasons people still rather play on legacy realms, to actually AVOID THOSE.

Holy hell.

Any (or all) of those will break the server. So, people who wanted classic will return to their legacy realms, the bandwagoners will say classic sucks and return to retail version, and the whole thing is a fiasco.

Is that the point? Sabotage it entirely so you can say "haha, i knew it would suck"?

Vanilla works! It worked 13 years ago, it will again, stop trying to ruin it for your personal fucking taste. Do you also take personal seasoning with you to restaurants to change the dishes? Or suggest 'QOL changes' to the food? "Hey, mind cooking this sushi a little bit?"

In regards to raids turned dungeons, both work, since, *gasp, both were vanilla variants. Who knew.

[ManiaCCC]

How are all those QOL improvements important, relevant or actually NOT detrimental for the actual vanilla experience?

It's actually simple. If all those QOL improvements matter so much to you, play the current version. Don't try and bring every immersion-breaking feature into a world they did not exist and are the primary reasons people still rather play on legacy realms, to actually AVOID THOSE.

Holy hell.

Any (or all) of those will break the server. So, people who wanted classic will return to their legacy realms, the bandwagoners will say classic sucks and return to retail version, and the whole thing is a fiasco.

Is that the point? Sabotage it entirely so you can say "haha, i knew it would suck"?

Vanilla works! It worked 13 years ago, it will again, stop trying to ruin it for your personal fucking taste. Do you also take personal seasoning with you to restaurants to change the dishes? Or suggest 'QOL changes' to the food? "Hey, mind cooking this sushi a little bit?"

In regards to raids turned dungeons, both work, since, *gasp, both were vanilla variants. Who knew.

So, you want Vanilla to avoid updated mail system and bug fixes?

Give me break. This is exactly the idiotic argument, people who want to discuss WoW classic and what it should be, has to went through before making some point.