Can Arcane compete with Frost/Fire in Raids?

[Alphatorg]

Go check wowlogs

I did, which is why I know that mage is middle of the pack at worst on every encounter bar the first two.

[D3athsting]

I did, which is why I know that mage is middle of the pack at worst on every encounter bar the first two.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=2076
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=2074

i wouldn't call that middle of the pack tbh

[Alphatorg]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=2076
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...le=7&boss=2074

i wouldn't call that middle of the pack tbh

I know I made a yuge post, almost containing 25 words, but why don't you try reading all of them.

[Nitros14]

It's not easy to draw conclusions from mythic parses at this point. Not enough arcane mages have done the later fights.

You're looking at 14 parses for Kin'garoth, 4 parses for Varimathras, 1 for Coven. Statistically insignificant.

The conclusion I think you can draw is that if the boss isn't Antoran High Command, Portal Keeper Hasabel, Eonar or Imonar you probably shouldn't be arcane.

[Swizzle]

Not enough arcane mages have done the later fights.

You're looking at 14 parses for Kin'garoth, 4 parses for Varimathras, 1 for Coven.

Isn't that telling in and of itself?

[music49]

If you aren't going for world first, every class/spec is viable, numbers are so skewed with everyone just repeating what the top guilds are doing. I'm not saying that arcane is just as good as frost/fire, but the gap is probably a lot smaller than most people think

[Progenitor Aquarius]

We have one arcane mage in mythic guild, and he outdps a frost mage and fire mage on some fights. I just find Arcane quite difficult to play in raids due to mana loss, when there is so many other things to look at. But this spec is really playable if people know what to do.

[Rhov]

Arcane is just a HARD spec to play it properly in a mythic environment atm and in the end it doesn't feel quite rewarding imo compared to the effort you need to put into the spec itself.

[kheath812]

We have one arcane mage in mythic guild, and he outdps a frost mage and fire mage on some fights. I just find Arcane quite difficult to play in raids due to mana loss, when there is so many other things to look at. But this spec is really playable if people know what to do.

All that means is that your frost and fire mage are bad. Frost less so as they aren't doing so hot right now, but fire has no excuse.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

All that means is that your frost and fire mage are bad. Frost less so as they aren't doing so hot right now, but fire has no excuse.

Some people are better some are not, everyone has their own skill development process. Which is totally fine as long as the boss dies.

[kheath812]

Some people are better some are not, everyone has their own skill development process. Which is totally fine as long as the boss dies.

sure, but that doesnt really have anything to do with anything when youre talking about class balance.

[Deleted]

I would be very careful with Arcane simulations, since thats with a 100% perfect rotation in burn and conserve phase, something a normal human being won't be able to mimic, not even close.

Frost and fire is "easier" to pull off more consistently close to the sims.

How is arcane different from frost from simulationcraft vs human player point of view? Both basically have proc they have to react, both have mechanic to not cap with procs if they don't instantly use the proc etc. Arcane rotation is no different from normal frost/fire rotations, you just spam the filler spell and react on procs/crits etc. Of course add dps whoring may be more critical on arcane, since it has the potential to do ALOT of dps on aoe burst, but this doesn't have anything to do with single target sims.

[Specialka]

How is arcane different from frost from simulationcraft vs human player point of view? Both basically have proc they have to react, both have mechanic to not cap with procs if they don't instantly use the proc etc. Arcane rotation is no different from normal frost/fire rotations, you just spam the filler spell and react on procs/crits etc. Of course add dps whoring may be more critical on arcane, since it has the potential to do ALOT of dps on aoe burst, but this doesn't have anything to do with single target sims.

You can't move during your burn phase or you will lose far more dps as arcane than fire or frost and you need to check your mana as well, while you do not simply care with the others specs.

[Soulwell]

How is arcane different from frost from simulationcraft vs human player point of view? Both basically have proc they have to react, both have mechanic to not cap with procs if they don't instantly use the proc etc. Arcane rotation is no different from normal frost/fire rotations, you just spam the filler spell and react on procs/crits etc. Of course add dps whoring may be more critical on arcane, since it has the potential to do ALOT of dps on aoe burst, but this doesn't have anything to do with single target sims.

Arcane opener, mana management with double ring, and abusing rule of threes is 12x as hard as hardcasting a fire bracer proc or spam casting snowball until you get some wet ice.

[Deleted]

Arcane opener, mana management with double ring, and abusing rule of threes is 12x as hard as hardcasting a fire bracer proc or spam casting snowball until you get some wet ice.

Usually the burst depending specs always are "harder" to play since they are less forgiving. If you fuck up one cast and waste one sec of a 10-15 sec burst window, which makes up 30 - 50% of your total dmg, this hurts a lot. Frost is more consistent dmg, where a mistakes cost you dps, but not as much as a mistake in the 7 million dps arcane opener. Also these burstphases needs a bit pre planning, since you can't move as arcane.

[kheath812]

Usually the burst depending specs always are "harder" to play since they are less forgiving. If you fuck up one cast and waste one sec of a 10-15 sec burst window, which makes up 30 - 50% of your total dmg, this hurts a lot. Frost is more consistent dmg, where a mistakes cost you dps, but not as much as a mistake in the 7 million dps arcane opener. Also these burstphases needs a bit pre planning, since you can't move as arcane.

frost is only consistent if you actually get procs, which is much less consistent now with t21 than it was with t20/19 combo. my pulls vary wildly, with one pull being 900k dps opener because i got no procs, and the next being 3m dps. its insane how rng and proc based frost is. they need some kind of bad luck protection on procs with how like 95% of our dps relies on them..

[pkm]

frost is only consistent if you actually get procs, which is much less consistent now with t21 than it was with t20/19 combo. my pulls vary wildly, with one pull being 900k dps opener because i got no procs, and the next being 3m dps. its insane how rng and proc based frost is. they need some kind of bad luck protection on procs with how like 95% of our dps relies on them..

Yeah this pretty much. Getting flurry procs while the increased frost damage part of icy veins being active sends your dps sky high.

But it doesn't happen often. The worst is when you spend that time with no fucking procs at all.

[Deleted]

Yeah this pretty much. Getting flurry procs while the increased frost damage part of icy veins being active sends your dps sky high.

But it doesn't happen often. The worst is when you spend that time with no fucking procs at all.

yeah, getting 20+ secs or worse a Bloodlust/heroism without procs have happened to me which is so painful and hurts your dps a lot but when the stars align then you're also sustaining an obscne amount of dps for quite a while.