Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.
I didn't say it was unfair, just said shit. I am generally against loot distribution systems that demands outside management. And well, it was an unfair tool if you were pugging people into a 40-man raid, which we were on average to fill the last 4-6 spots. Basically creating useless drama. And then followed with the DKP dumpers who ended up having points enough to swipe something that could benefit someone more.
And I'm sorry, favorites happened even then, with an addition of more points for false attendance.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
So you're against one of the core aspects of an MMORPG. Alright.
It's only drama if the PUG didn't understand the rules and that pugs are getting loot only and if only no one else needs it. Then they can roll for it.
Subjective. You think it can benefit you more, the other person thinks the same. In the end it's either DKP or raid leader working as an arbiter. DKP is much more transparent in this case.
Well. That's social aspect. If you get yourself into a shitty guild, stick with it and expect wonders to happen, I'm not sure that this is the problem with the system.
Where the hell did you read that? I said I was against distribution systems (EPGP, DKP, etc), not against you using your brain.
Yeah, except at times pugs will play the mindwipe card and whine to a GM. We had to at that point, to have an archive of screenshots to prove that we had announced it as soon as the whole raid was inside.
Well, I wasn't using myself as an example but more a combination what one of our main healers experiences Vs. a DPS. The DPS had banked all his DKP until the one thing he wanted, which was something the healer actually needed more - but then, we ran on the whole DKP system and rules and we were like, 'well, people run DKP like this, so guess the DPS has it'. Lots of gear would have benefitted the DPS more but he declined and banked the points.
Not a problem with the system, hence I said, 'favorites happened even then'. You could be in a great guild and there would still be some. I was just pointing out that bit, not that it had to do with the system.
FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..
Dude. You're literally complaining against manual distribution of loot.
Nonsense and never happened for one simple reason. GM isn't responsible for loot distribution issues. They only got involved if both parties messed up and want to transfer item from one player to another where both agree with it. Also, since you clearly haven't seen it happen in the real world, GMs don't care about your screenshots and they operate with chat logs in cases of disputes (usually concerning trade scams).
So? Not sure where the problem. The person clearly saved DKP and haven't taken any loot just to get this one item. It's fair. The fact that you're putting a healer one step above DPS clearly shows that DKP is needed because you're against fair distribution of the loot.
So what are we discussing here then?
So you played on a shit hole server or something because on Shattered Hand it happened a ton. My wife and I ran ours with a few people from one of the server first guilds that were gearing alts or looking to get gear they didn't get while running some of this stuff for offspecs.
Granted that only extended so far, they weren't pugging AQ40 or Naxx, but just about anything else you could find a pug for.
Now it was filtered a ton, they would choose people they knew had done a good job from previous runs, but as long as you were decent you could find a group to run things with.
They didn't always go well, and certainly weren't as effective as they would become in Wrath, but they did exist, especially in the 20 mans and obviously Ony.
Last edited by Armourboy; 2017-12-27 at 12:09 PM.
Your reasoning is flawed because you seems to assume wildstar's raiding was bad because it was 40 men based. But, guess what, the number of players in the raid isn't the only factor that makes a raid successful or not. There are hundreds of reasons why PVE in wildstar was bad (the main reason being excessive gating on too little content, the other one being that the games's color were so flashy and it did move so much that you ended raiding cession with motion sickness or a headache).
Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2017-12-27 at 12:12 PM.
I liked DKP system. Especially as every week, I earned 5 points even before setting foot in the raid as I was the guy who could be bothered to go hunt/fish enough to supply the entire raid with feasts for the week. (Granted, that came later.)
- - - Updated - - -
GMs refused to get involved in loot distribution until mid-WotLK. That change came exactly a week after I got cheated of a Black War Mammoth I won fair and square but which the lootmaster kept anyway.
Have they actually got involved in cases like this routinely or was it an isolated example? I remember in vanilla and tbc the response was always along the lines of: "you have agreed with him being a loot master so he can distribute loot the way he wants". It makes sense and I'm surprised to hear it changed later down the line.
It was, in fact, like that in Vanilla and TBC and early WotLK. It changed around the time when I guess there were too many PUGs clearing the starting Northrend raids (and Wintergrasp) regularly for the mounts (and naturally, the whine was always about the mounts). They changed the policy so if you could prove by logs that loot distribution by rolling was promised, they would actually move the loot to the rightful winner.
What a disaster this was, too... I started playing in '06 so I got in relatively late. Reliable != competent... "spam your fastest heal" was the only guidance we got from the raid leader, hah. No class guides, thottbot was your go-to website and it was awful. I think we cleared Molten Core once.
There were some things that were far better in vanilla, but 40-man raids were not one of them.
...That also makes your reasoning flawed you know, right?
I played that game for a year. The main reason it didn't work out was lack of 40 people. The gating was exactly how the community wanted it with there being a long ass quest chain to get in. Sounds familiar right?
The only motion sickness complaint i ever heard was due to the FOV, which people then adjusted and were fine after just starting to play the game. I never heard anyone say they got motion sickness from "colors."
- - - Updated - - -
There is literally multiple paragraphs explaining why it didn't work out, but sure. To put it simply "maintaining a roster of 40 people."
Why do you think they followed it up with a paragraph on why 20 man was successful?
Last edited by iamthedevil; 2017-12-27 at 08:01 PM.
Best part of vanilla in my opinion, 40mans that is, loot is less important
Big raids are awesome. Just look at the Lord of the Rings movies or any movie with epic battles. What is most epic, 10000v10000 people or 5v5 people :P This is World of WARcraft, so big raids, army-like, really fits.
• Diablo Immortal is the most misunderstood and underrated game of all time!
• Blizzard, please, give us some end-game focused Classic servers, where you start at max level!
• Serious Completionist: 100% OW Achievements, 100% D3 Achievements, 90% Immortal Achievements, 99% ATT Classic, ~90% ATT Retail
And it happened because Wildstar was a shitty game to begin with. I started it and dropped within first 2 weeks. They tried to emulate classic MMORPGs while merging it with the modern concept of Diablo-like "go go go" and at the same time were shitting on their won playerbase. Not to mention the "action-combat" where every skill you had was basically AOE attack of some sort. Oh and if you though that WoW pet AI is dumb, play as an Engineer in Wildstar and then you'll see the definition of AI stupidity in your bots\pets. Stop comparing that design and marketing disaster with a game proven by time.
Comparing a game that failed at launch and the game that had enormous success is ridiculous. WoW killers always failed because these were always designed as crappy cash grabs with the entire marketing consisting out of a single phrase "we're not in Azeroth anymore!".
Last edited by Wiedzemir; 2017-12-28 at 11:26 AM.
While this wasn't a Classic system, I've always been a fan of EPGP. Regardless, 40-Player raiding was the epitome of the "SUCK!"
The game was designed by people that worked at blizzard north. *Nope wrong guy.
Also, my post had nothing to do with the game other than the raiding.
Main point being, they tried to replicate an already antiquated mode and subsequently failed like that already retired mode. Reason being the same thing, "maintaining a roster of 40 people."
Last edited by iamthedevil; 2017-12-28 at 08:06 PM.
My favourite part of Vanilla was spending couple hours in Scholomance and getting Priest Tier head drop.
Without a Priest in the group lul.
Loot isn't less important. It's actually more important, because most fights were gear or resist checks.
There were multiple changes to policy - one change was that 'highest roll' was implied, before that if you only said "loot will be rolled for" you could give it to anyone that rolled :-)
- - - Updated - - -
You are missing the entire point.
Loot in a progressing raiding guild is intended to benefit the group - not the individuals. The problem isn't whether the healer or dps got that item - but that the dps previously DKP-hoarded and likely skipped multiple upgrades in order to get that item. That is suboptimal for the guild - and dkp generally leads to that.