Hypothetical: Would Alliance change capital to Lordaeron?

[Nathasil]

Why is everybody assuming Teldrassil & UC will be the only cities/zones lost/destroyed during BFA? Do you really believe Blizzard will have the only actual consequences of this "big faction war" happen in the prologue? I would be disappointed if more than one city on each faction survived BFA.

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OT: In WC3 it is made very clear that Arthas took great care to slaughter every single civilian refugee of his nation. There is no big group of Lordaeron humans in Stormwind or anywhere else. The Humans of Lordaeron are basically extinct. So why would ANYBODY in the Alliance have any interest to go there? What connection do they have with that place? A lot less than the Night Elves have with Suramar, i can tell you that.

Even IF Calia magically was made 15 years younger than she is now...that would make her the only Human in the entire Alliance who would have a reason to return there.

[Shibito]

They can always pull another Windrunner out of their sleeve.
We all know what the Winrdunner women want with humans

Hahaha would be funny if Anduin cucked Turalyon

[Deleted]

Yep! We'll just have Anduins......dad....arrange the......oh......

Who said the marriage wasn't arranged at birth, like Varian's?

[Aquamonkey]

A chunk of the lordaeron population fled to kalimdor with Jaina and was evacuated before the bomb hit, another chunk fled to stormwind once the capital city fell to the undead, yet another chunk made its way to kul taris, yet more lived in other alliance/argent held lordaeron lands (Southshore, chillwind, lights hope and so on) I really don't get this "There are no native's still alive" argument.

Theramore was nuked, the civilians that escaped were captured by Garrosh. Only a few Lordaeron survivors fled to Stormwind. There's nothing about any going to Kul Tiras. Southshore was obliterated. Chillwind was created by the Argent Dawn after Lordaeron fell. The Argent Dawn was an international organization.

[Shibito]

Who said the marriage wasn't arranged at birth, like Varian's?

Was Varian's marriage arranged at birth? Thought he met Tiffin later.

[Deleted]

Was Varian's marriage arranged at birth? Thought he met Tiffin later.

"Q: What is Tiffin Wrynn's backstory in terms of family, original nation, etc.? I'd be curious as to what connections were set up through that marriage.

A: We'll keep this brief because we could easily write a few pages for this one. Tiffin Wrynn was originally Tiffin Ellerian of the Ellerian noble family of Stormwind, a small house that only had a small chunk of land in Westfall. Her marriage to Varian was pre-arranged at her birth, finally securing her family a spot on the Stormwind House of Nobles. Tiffin and Varian initially disliked each other, but they eventually became inseparable. Tiffin helped Varian control his occasional anger issues and taught him economics, while Varian helped teach Tiffin about politics and social etiquette. Tiffin was eventually known as a queen of the people, and she was the most adamant supporter of paying the Stonemasons' Guild the initially agreed-upon sum. Her accidental death during the Stonemasons' Guild riot was a monumental loss for Varian, Anduin, and the people of Stormwind."

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/1008430853

[Shibito]

"Q: What is Tiffin Wrynn's backstory in terms of family, original nation, etc.? I'd be curious as to what connections were set up through that marriage.

A: We'll keep this brief because we could easily write a few pages for this one. Tiffin Wrynn was originally Tiffin Ellerian of the Ellerian noble family of Stormwind, a small house that only had a small chunk of land in Westfall. Her marriage to Varian was pre-arranged at her birth, finally securing her family a spot on the Stormwind House of Nobles. Tiffin and Varian initially disliked each other, but they eventually became inseparable. Tiffin helped Varian control his occasional anger issues and taught him economics, while Varian helped teach Tiffin about politics and social etiquette. Tiffin was eventually known as a queen of the people, and she was the most adamant supporter of paying the Stonemasons' Guild the initially agreed-upon sum. Her accidental death during the Stonemasons' Guild riot was a monumental loss for Varian, Anduin, and the people of Stormwind."

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/1008430853

Guess it was retconned like Garona's original story that she was asked by orgrim to choose between death and the horde when he slew Llane and not the bullshit mind control

[ohwell]

Calia is too old, but it could be fixed. Blizzard could say something that although she is technically thirty something years old, due to being in the Netherflight Temple for most of the time, how it traverses through the Nether, and how time flows differently in that dimension, that she's biologically still in her early twenties.

I also take it you did not read the OP?

Much less considering the fact that the whole "time flows differently in the nether" is already a mess due to Netherlight(not flight) Temple and several other class order halls being in the nether would mean a whole lot of other chaotic time problems(they should have never said time is different in the nether to begin with).

[Whitedragon]

Theramore was nuked, the civilians that escaped were captured by Garrosh. Only a few Lordaeron survivors fled to Stormwind. There's nothing about any going to Kul Tiras. Southshore was obliterated. Chillwind was created by the Argent Dawn after Lordaeron fell. The Argent Dawn was an international organization.

Untrue the book clearly noted that most of the civilian population was portaled to Stormwind before the bomb was used.
Kul tiras was where they staged the exodus to kalimdor it isn't far fetched to assume some remained there.
As for how many fled to stormwind nether of us has the numbers because blizzard never has came out and said how many made it all we know is that some did.
Chilwind and many other locations in the north where indeed made after lodaerons fall who do you think made them? (note: it wasn't the dawn they just used it as a staging ground).
The argent dawn is an multi species organization but it was founded by humans and they make up a large portion of its membership most of them being lordaeron survivors (A similar story to the scarlet crusade.).
Not all of Southshores population died to the plague bombing some fled.

[united]

A chunk of the lordaeron population fled to kalimdor with Jaina and was evacuated before the bomb hit, another chunk fled to stormwind once the capital city fell to the undead, yet another chunk made its way to kul taris, yet more lived in other alliance/argent held lordaeron lands (Southshore, chillwind, lights hope and so on) I really don't get this "There are no native's still alive" argument.

so all added up: 20 people

[Aquamonkey]

Untrue the book clearly noted that most of the civilian population was portaled to Stormwind before the bomb was used,

Not even close. Only 1 ship of civilians was sent out, everyone else stayed to fight. The Starsword was later intercepted by Garrosh. Jaina tried to portal wounded soldiers to Stormwind, but the Focusing Iris interference prevented it. She was called away from them into the tower. Rhonin redirected the portal to a tiny island in the Great Sea. Only Jaina and her companions (adventurers) made it through the portal. All of the wounded and everyone else died when the mana bomb detonated.

Kul tiras was where they staged the exodus to kalimdor it isn't far fetched to assume some remained there,

The ships came from Kul Tiras to Lordaeron to ferry people to Kalimdor. Nothing says they ever stopped back in Kul Tiras.

Chilwind and many other locations where indeed made after lodaerons fall who do you think made them? (note it wasn't the dawn they just used it as a staging ground), The argent dawn is an multi species organization but it was founded by humans and they make up a large portion of its membership most of them being lordaeron survivors (A similar story to the scarlet crusade.),

It was literally just a camp of Argent Dawn, set up around a ruined house.

Not all of southshores population died to the plague bombing some fled.

Yes, they fled to Hillsbrad Fields. Which was then taken by the Forsaken. The humans fled to Arathi (all killed) and Fenris Keep. The ones who made it to Fenris became worgen and were mostly slaughtered by Forsaken forces on the shore of Lordamere Lake. These Southshore survivors are nothing more than peasants. They don't own the land at all. Southshore is owned by the Barov family.

[SilenceRedo]

calia. is. too. old.

also everyone from lordaeron is either dead or forsaken so there is no point rebuilding lordaeron. you would be doing for people that aren’t even from there.

Too old for what? Women can get pregnant till late forties.

Some seem to think women can't get knocked up past 30...

[vilememory]

Why are you people even asking that? All the lands of former Lordaeron belongs to Gilneas now, including the Plaguelands and once Silvermoon Falls the elf lands will belong to the Worgen.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Why are you people even asking that? All the lands of former Lordaeron belongs to Gilneas now, including the Plaguelands and once Silvermoon Falls the elf lands will belong to the Worgen.

Alliance don't control the plaguelands, they don't even control silverpine. The Worgen could scratch at the gates of Silvermoon all they want, they won't get in, if they could even get into the Ghostlands. Also the worgen are subservient to Anduin, like all of the Alliance.

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Too old for what? Women can get pregnant till late forties.

Some seem to think women can't get knocked up past 30...

Its not the ability, its the chances of problems with the pregnancy start to rapidly increase in chance at that age.

[Koroniss]

Why are you people even asking that? All the lands of former Lordaeron belongs to Gilneas now, including the Plaguelands and once Silvermoon Falls the elf lands will belong to the Worgen.

Nonsense! Those lands belong to the Gnomes by right!

[Qualia]

What if the Alliance ceases to exist after BfA because it hasn't been an Alliance since the station of 'High King' showed up?

There has always been a top leader in the Alliance, be it the old Alliance or the current one. It's not like an alliance can't have a leader from one of its member - EU has its president of the leading council as well, for example. The Alliance tittle of "High King", formerly "High General", doesn't grant the leader absolute authority over other members.

[Thage]

There's no logical reason to do so other than to appeal to the same sort of blind nostalgia Garrosh tried appealing to with his glory-days rhetoric, and we all know how well that turned out. Right now, Stormwind is the de facto seat of power in the Alliance, and I don't see Anduin abandoning his kingdom for a ruined, plague-infested mess. What could happen is the Alliance gets the Silver Hand back into its fold, including the remnants of the Argent Crusade, and the Church of the Holy Light relocates its seat of power to Stratholme (which has been under Argent control since the events of 4.0, with Eligor Dawnbringer mentioning revitalizing the Plaguelands as a new Lordaeron with Stratholme as its seat of power). In such a scenario, the Alliance won't need the ruins of Capital City, which are mentioned as being indefensible after the Battle for Lordaeron scenario, to which I say that if the Alliance manages to consolidate power (keep in mind that, at least for 7.0, the Arathi Highlands are still a key chokepoint with the Alliance and Horde battling for control of Stromgarde) in the Eastern Kingdoms, they should let the ghosts of Capital City rest and only keep a garrison in Tirisfal insofar as to ensure the Horde doesn't come sniffing around with intent to retake the zone.

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Why are you people even asking that? All the lands of former Lordaeron belongs to Gilneas now, including the Plaguelands and once Silvermoon Falls the elf lands will belong to the Worgen.

The lion's share of the Plaguelands are actually held by the Argent Crusade/Silver Hand--everything from Hearthglen eastward with the sole exception of Andorhal, which is held by Alliance-aligned Lordaeron survivors under Thassarian (himself a former Lordaeron soldier) with heavy support from Stormwind, Ironforge, and New Tinkertown.

Gilneas is very likely back in Alliance control as of BFA--mention had been made of the Horde ceding the battle for Gilneas as part of the negotiations to get the Alliance to withdraw from Durotar (also mentioned, for the record's sake, were the Horde pulling out of Ashenvale in exchange for the stripmined ruins of Azshara) and if not, soon after since the Horde loses its primary staging point in the Eastern Kingdoms with the fall of Undercity. Thus why they're so eager to keep a meat grinder going in Arathi and hoping to take Stromgarde Keep, so they have a reliable means of ingress into the southern Eastern Kingdoms.

Point being, I wouldn't count on Genn trying to lay claim to the Plaguelands or to Quel'thalas (the latter mostly because of timeline issues; Blizzard is reluctant to bring Quel'thalas and the Azuremyst Isles onto the Kalimdor/EK servers after they've existed for so long on the Outland server).

[ThePallyRanger]

There's no logical reason to do so other than to appeal to the same sort of blind nostalgia Garrosh tried appealing to with his glory-days rhetoric, and we all know how well that turned out. Right now, Stormwind is the de facto seat of power in the Alliance, and I don't see Anduin abandoning his kingdom for a ruined, plague-infested mess. What could happen is the Alliance gets the Silver Hand back into its fold, including the remnants of the Argent Crusade, and the Church of the Holy Light relocates its seat of power to Stratholme (which has been under Argent control since the events of 4.0, with Eligor Dawnbringer mentioning revitalizing the Plaguelands as a new Lordaeron with Stratholme as its seat of power). In such a scenario, the Alliance won't need the ruins of Capital City, which are mentioned as being indefensible after the Battle for Lordaeron scenario, to which I say that if the Alliance manages to consolidate power (keep in mind that, at least for 7.0, the Arathi Highlands are still a key chokepoint with the Alliance and Horde battling for control of Stromgarde) in the Eastern Kingdoms, they should let the ghosts of Capital City rest and only keep a garrison in Tirisfal insofar as to ensure the Horde doesn't come sniffing around with intent to retake the zone.

In this hypothetical, we are assuming that Lordaeron (everything from Silverpine and Tirisfal to Hillsbrad and the Plaguelands) has already been cleaned up of any plague/ooze, Horde, Scourge, etc. And that most of the infrastructure has been rebuilt, and that the land is now repopulated.

[Thage]

Comparing it to the EU is an apt comparison. A bunch of unelected bureaucrats wielding power over supposedly sovereign nations. That's not an Alliance. An Alliance is a coalition. There is no High King in a coalition. And no, there was never a top leader in the Alliance until High King. There was a top leader in the Horde, who is warchief. That was supposed to be a distinction.

Anduin Lothar and, later, Turalyon had unquestioned military authority over the Alliance's forces in the Second War and Draenor expedition. That's the purpose of the High King as well, to more efficiently coordinate the member nations' militaries. Anduin, and Varian before him, has/had no authority over the other members of the Alliance (Varian forcing Moira to change Ironforge's government at sword-point both came before the position was established, and wasn't a granted power regardless) when it comes to governance, trade, or social values. That's the main difference between a High King and Warchief--the Warchief's power extends to political control over member nations, the High King's stops at control of pledged military resources (and as seen in Blood in the Snow, no Alliance members are forced to pledge their armies to a war effort; that they're so in-sync about doing so so often is a testament to how well-oiled the Alliance is overall).

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In this hypothetical, we are assuming that Lordaeron (everything from Silverpine and Tirisfal to Hillsbrad and the Plaguelands) has already been cleaned up of any plague/ooze, Horde, Scourge, etc. And that most of the infrastructure has been rebuilt, and that the land is now repopulated.

Even then, there's no point. Lordaeron's surviving population isn't much to speak of anymore between Theramore being mana-bombed and Southshore getting plague-bombed so hard it's about 80% muck and ruined buildings.

What there is is mostly concentrated in the Argents/Silver Hand, who already have plans to re-establish Lordaeron and may well have already done so, but Blizz is bad about updating old zones at high levels to advance what could be big plot points like that.

And this still doesn't address what impetus Anduin would have to uproot Stormwind's government, re-establish it in Capital City, and what would be done with Stormwind after.

[ThePallyRanger]

Even then, there's no point. Lordaeron's surviving population isn't much to speak of anymore between Theramore being mana-bombed and Southshore getting plague-bombed so hard it's about 80% muck and ruined buildings.

What there is is mostly concentrated in the Argents/Silver Hand, who already have plans to re-establish Lordaeron and may well have already done so, but Blizz is bad about updating old zones at high levels to advance what could be big plot points like that.

And this still doesn't address what impetus Anduin would have to uproot Stormwind's government, re-establish it in Capital City, and what would be done with Stormwind after.

Lordaeron doesn't have to be populated with Lordaeronians. I always imagined that in such a hypothetical, they'd basically offer plots of land and some gold to encourage settlers (from Stormwind or elsewhere) to immigrate there. And maybe relocate some of Westfall's homeless population there. And these people would eventually become the new Lordaeronians.