Blood elves, high elves and what could have been

[Obelisk Kai]

I think they all know Ion's position, but it doesn't mean that position won't change nor does it mean it is set in stone. In addition to this, there are those who are aware they won't get high elves, but are voicing their displeasure at recieving void elves as a substitute.

And then there's those like me who are displeased at having to put up with two new types of elves that makes no sense to have on either faction's side. "Nightborne" and "void elves", like, seriously.

Being displeased is fine. I'm displeased at having two new types of Elves. I felt one type of elf per faction was more than enough.

And yes, Blizzard's position can change. Nobody has ever denied that. But to use that as a retort against a literal mountain of evidence (as too many are now doing as a last refuge from reality) pointing the other way is a ridiculous response. I refuse to accept it as a legitimate argument because it takes everything ever said on this matter, which I have helpfully posted together above, and attempts to defuse it with a 'so what'.

Nuts to that denial-enabling, self indulgent rubbish.

[Doffen]

I think they all know Ion's position, but it doesn't mean that position won't change nor does it mean it is set in stone. In addition to this, there are those who are aware they won't get high elves, but are voicing their displeasure at recieving void elves as a substitute.

And then there's those like me who are displeased at having to put up with two new types of elves that makes no sense to have on either faction's side. "Nightborne" and "void elves", like, seriously.

Ion's position is also that both faction got a flavor of High Elves now. I can understand people wanting replica blood elves, but they also got that in blue elves now. I don't think blizzard want to add original High Elves as in the non-blood one, it can change of course, but that will be a while.

I predict this being a good move on Blizzards part. Not gonna deny that Humans being the most popular race since they are pure and simple, but moving towards elves and other more fantasy races, people like something different. And Void Elves are kinda both. Very High Elf likey and still with some twist during combat. The model looks good, compared to the other similar project, Worgen were the female one is kinda too weird.

I can see them adding Undead High Elves being more likely(though any new elf will be unlikely at least the 2-3 years to come)

How about Sylvanas raising Vereesa up from the dead. Vereesa then being mad at her sister so she starts recruiting other Undead Elves and then they join the Alliance. What a twist!! I want to get paid blizz!

[Sangris]

For some reason I think now that the Alliance gets Void Elves, that Blizzard will more or less kill the High Elves off. They will use the Void Elves to oppose the Blood Elves instead of the Silver Covenant.

That's what I expect at least.

[Deleted]

"Blizzard can change their minds" is the new "Blizzard can do whatever they want"

Actually, it's a polite way of saying "Blizzard is full of shit" because we don't trust anything they say anymore when it comes to any feature and especially not when it comes to High Elves. Not after it was pretended that High Elves are too few in number, after which they then made playable Void Elves who are even fewer in number.

Honestly, after 13 years of World of Warcraft, the default position should be to not trust anything Blizzard says until it actually happens.

I'll believe High Elves are a lost cause on the day Blizzard actually shuts down WoW's servers. Considering the zeal with which anti-High-Elf arguments are delivered, it would seem that even those vehemently opposed to High Elves are not convinced that Blizzard won't do it at some point.

As such, it is only fair to argue in favor of things we'd really like to see ... and it's hilarious to argue that doing so is pointless.

[Arrashi]

Actually, it's a polite way of saying "Blizzard is full of shit" because we don't trust anything they say anymore when it comes to any feature and especially not when it comes to High Elves. Not after it was pretended that High Elves are too few in number, after which they then made playable Void Elves who are even fewer in number.

Honestly, after 13 years of World of Warcraft, the default position should be to not trust anything Blizzard says until it actually happens.

I'll believe High Elves are a lost cause on the day Blizzard actually shuts down WoW's servers. Considering the zeal with which anti-High-Elf arguments are delivered, it would seem that even those vehemently opposed to High Elves are not convinced that Blizzard won't do it at some point.

As such, it is only fair to argue in favor of things we'd really like to see ... and it's hilarious to argue that doing so is pointless.

Its mostly becaus half-elvers simply won't shut up. Like this train sailed the moment TBC launched. And yet so many years after they are still in denial. Still screaming into ether. Still not able to dry the tears and accept the reality.

[Zulkhan]

For some reason I think now that the Alliance gets Void Elves, that Blizzard will more or less kill the High Elves off. They will use the Void Elves to oppose the Blood Elves instead of the Silver Covenant.

That's what I expect at least.

Actually, it would be better if Void Elves would only occasionally oppose Blood Elves while managing to become their own thing at the same time, otherwise they'll meet the same disgraceful fate of Silver Covenant, something that would be appreciable to avoid with an actual playable race.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Snip of you missing the point.

Let's rename this thread "Obelisk Kai misses the point" No, that's not quite right; better "Obelisk Kai keeps dismissing points because they do not fit their High Elf Strawman argumentation." I mean yeah, I agree, you are clearly not arguing in here, that would mean you should have to read what I'm saying.

Okay so, first and foremost, let's just throw away that population argument out, as people keep telling you how is worthless now yet you keep making it. We have Void elves, a Blood Elf sect, now as an Allied Race. Just, stop. The population threshold has already been crossed, stop pretending you have a point here, specially by using 12 year old forum posts and information that has been taken offline.

With that factual bit out of the way, let's look back to what I'm actually argumentation, what are my points, points that you just don't address because you just keep arguing against a high elf strawman.

Okay Obelisk, here it's the point, so you don't miss it for what feels like the 10th time (and I'm going to bold it so you really don't miss it ): High Elf lore post split should be addressed.

Now, look at that, so as you might remember, this is what has been my point, the point you keep missing frothing over "high elf fans." You keep misrepresenting my concern about high elves, with "high elves should be playable." My thesis is that high elves are important to the overall narrative, and that they deserve some resolution instead of hanging on like a loose thread. The fact that I have explicitly stated that I disagree with Blizzard's execution of this whole Void Elf deal is a point into itself. I'm not divining here every word and snippet Blizz has said to get a gotcha moment of "see? High Elves should be playable!" Don't be silly for once, the thing I KEEP SAYING is that High Elf lore exists (and I guess I have to say "post split" because if not you would start with the "wahh it's blood elf lore" dear lord) and should be addressed and resolved.

Literally, the lack of that, is what I see as a failure from Blizzard's writing.

And you, you keep working under some assumption, some self serving codification, that high elves shouldn't be playable, like, they can't be playable. Me and many others have continually dismantled those arguments, to show you is not an issue of impossibility, merely about Blizzard's decision, and that's fine, they don't owe us anything, we, as costumers, speak with our money. And no, the lack of high elves is not a dealbreaker.

That doesn't mean I won't disagree with Blizzard, and how I believe Void Elves could have been a way to address the remaining high elven organization, the Silver Covenant, in a way that actually pays off to all their screen time. Hell, even population would be truly a moot point if Void Elves would have been a mix of high and blood elves but that's not her nor there.

Yet you are so coiled in your self righteousness that you can't even concede to the point that it would be nice if high elves could be addressed and resolved, better in a way that actually pays off to the screen time they have had. No, instead, you dismiss that screen time as worthless because they were a foil, you dismiss any interest on their post split lore because they are too few, any appeal one might see on them as worthless nostalgia.

Feel free to not reply, yet if you do, actually reply to my points here. We might not be arguing by your own admission, but at least consider this as a back and forth. So if you are going to reply, read what I'm saying.

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Actually, it's a polite way of saying "Blizzard is full of shit" because we don't trust anything they say anymore when it comes to any feature and especially not when it comes to High Elves. Not after it was pretended that High Elves are too few in number, after which they then made playable Void Elves who are even fewer in number.

Honestly, after 13 years of World of Warcraft, the default position should be to not trust anything Blizzard says until it actually happens.

I'll believe High Elves are a lost cause on the day Blizzard actually shuts down WoW's servers. Considering the zeal with which anti-High-Elf arguments are delivered, it would seem that even those vehemently opposed to High Elves are not convinced that Blizzard won't do it at some point.

As such, it is only fair to argue in favor of things we'd really like to see ... and it's hilarious to argue that doing so is pointless.

The one thing that truly baffles me about anti high elf sentiment is that the only argument they need is "It's up to Blizzard"

Yet that vehemency they keep inserting themselves on high elf conversations, is like they live in the constant fear of high elves happening, so they just have to keep fighting that good fight to avoid that. So what is it, is it utterly impossible and ridiculous that high elves will happen, or that they have to keep yelling to stop it from happening.

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Its mostly becaus half-elvers simply won't shut up. Like this train sailed the moment TBC launched. And yet so many years after they are still in denial. Still screaming into ether. Still not able to dry the tears and accept the reality.

The underlying notion that the reality of a video game narrative, that is written by people and not transcribed from a higher entity from a pre-ordained fate, is not subject to change is the silliest argument on on this issue.

Why does the notion that people disagree with blizzard writing choices is so darn min-blowing for the likes of you?

[Arrashi]

The underlying notion that the reality of a video game narrative, that is written by people and not transcribed from a higher entity from a pre-ordained fate, is not subject to change is the silliest argument on on this issue.

Why does the notion that people disagree with blizzard writing choices is so darn min-blowing for the likes of you?

You are welcome to disagree with anything you want. An open and ignorant denial towards blizzards clear stance on the other hand make you look like a fool.

And the only mind-blowing thing about it whole situation is that there is group of adults (?) lacking ability to understand something as simple as "No". I can only imagine scenes you guys were pulling in toy stores as kids. "I HATE YOU MOM, I WILL KILL YOU, I HATE YOOOOUUUUUU".

[Obelisk Kai]

Let's rename this thread "Obelisk Kai misses the point" No, that's not quite right; better "Obelisk Kai keeps dismissing points because they do not fit their High Elf Strawman argumentation." I mean yeah, I agree, you are clearly not arguing in here, that would mean you should have to read what I'm saying.

I am reading what you are saying, much to my own personal detriment.

Okay so, first and foremost, let's just throw away that population argument out

No we won't. Blizzard keeps mentioning the population issue in regards to High Elves. So clearly THEY think it matters. You don't, but Blizzard's opinion trumps yours. As long as they keep using it, the rest of us can too.

, as people keep telling you how is worthless now yet you keep making it. We have Void elves, a Blood Elf sect, now as an Allied Race. Just, stop. The population threshold has already been crossed, stop pretending you have a point here, specially by using 12 year old forum posts and information that has been taken offline.

Hmm...typical attempt to discredit Blizzard's very consistent position on this issue.

Caydiem's blue post syncs with the Warcraft encyclopedia. Which syncs with Metzen's 2006 interview with him gushing over how they were making a cool twist on High Elves playable. Which segues with the Warcraft encyclopedia. Which the Blizzard librarian confirmed in a tweet was still canon. Which all dovetails with what Ion said less than two months ago.

With that factual bit out of the way, let's look back to what I'm actually argumentation, what are my points, points that you just don't address because you just keep arguing against a high elf strawman.

I tried rereading what you wrote above but couldn't find anything factual. I did find someone metaphorically sticking his fingers in his ears and pretending that what he was hearing wasn't what he was hearing. Twelve years of all the information on this topic gathered in one spot and you get the answer. It's a big fat No.

Okay Obelisk, here it's the point, so you don't miss it for what feels like the 10th time (and I'm going to bold it so you really don't miss it ): High Elf lore post split should be addressed.

Now, look at that, so as you might remember, this is what has been my point, the point you keep missing frothing over "high elf fans." You keep misrepresenting my concern about high elves, with "high elves should be playable." My thesis is that high elves are important to the overall narrative, and that they deserve some resolution instead of hanging on like a loose thread.

High Elves have been important to the overall narrative since Warcraft 2 when they fought beside the rest of the Alliance. Their near extinction at the hands of the Scourge, defection from the Alliance, re-christening of themselves as Blood Elves and their entry into the Horde has been a compelling story. I see no reason for it to end any time soon and I look forward to many more stories with them.

The fact that I have explicitly stated that I disagree with Blizzard's execution of this whole Void Elf deal is a point into itself. I'm not divining here every word and snippet Blizz has said to get a gotcha moment of "see? High Elves should be playable!" Don't be silly for once, the thing I KEEP SAYING is that High Elf lore exists (and I guess I have to say "post split" because if not you would start with the "wahh it's blood elf lore" dear lord) and should be addressed and resolved.

You can't put together a gotcha because every snippet and word points to the opposite conclusion. I could put together a 'gotcha' because the evidence backs my position. And the 'High Elves' of Dalaran have as much right to further story as the Ogres of Dustwallow Marsh. If Blizzard wants to give them more story, fine. If it is them dying and being removed, brilliant. But if they are left to rot in Dalaran till the game shuts down I'll be fine with that too. They don't deserve the time they were given in earlier expansions, even when that was misrepresented as a High Elf story rather than as a Jaina or a Veressa story with some elves in it.

Literally, the lack of that, is what I see as a failure from Blizzard's writing.

And you, you keep working under some assumption, some self serving codification, that high elves shouldn't be playable, like, they can't be playable. Me and many others have continually dismantled those arguments,

Do I need to repost the wall of text I put together above. You have dismantled nothing. You merely retreat to the childish response that 'Blizzard can do it what they want'

WELL DUH.

If they ever change their minds, we will all know about it. But the wall of text shows that they almost certainly won't.

If your only argument is that a Blizzard ex machina can deliver High Elves, you've no argument at all. After all, I could start a topic saying I want a playable race of Anduin Wrynns. Just everyone plays Anduin Wrynn. And if I were to utilise your 'debating tactic' which you claim has 'dismantled' my argument, all I'd have to say to the people pointing out how self evidently stupid such a suggestion would be is 'Blizzard can do whatever they like so I'm not wrong, it could happen'.

Just like the suggestion of playable High Elves is self evidently stupid. They are already playable.

A variant of them is being added to the game and they are also playable.

This ain't happening a third time.

to show you is not an issue of impossibility, merely about Blizzard's decision

,

again, this is the stupidest argument ever. And inevitable. You aren't the first person who has retreated to this position, you won't be the last. But it does mean you've run out of arguments, just like everyone else before you has retreated to this.

and that's fine, they don't owe us anything, we, as costumers, speak with our money. And no, the lack of high elves is not a dealbreaker.

Lack? They are playable on the Horde, an emo variant is playable on the Alliance. Lack implies people are being denied something. These people are making a choice to deny themselves playing a thalassian elf. That is on them.

That doesn't mean I won't disagree with Blizzard, and how I believe Void Elves could have been a way to address the remaining high elven organization, the Silver Covenant, in a way that actually pays off to all their screen time. Hell, even population would be truly a moot point if Void Elves would have been a mix of high and blood elves but that's not her nor there

Maybe Blizzard felt there weren't even enough High Elves left to realistically cover a small band of exiles.

Yet you are so coiled in your self righteousness that you can't even concede to the point that it would be nice if high elves could be addressed and resolved, better in a way that actually pays off to the screen time they have had. No, instead, you dismiss that screen time as worthless because they were a foil, you dismiss any interest on their post split lore because they are too few, any appeal one might see on them as worthless nostalgia.

Feel free to not reply, yet if you do, actually reply to my points here. We might not be arguing by your own admission, but at least consider this as a back and forth. So if you are going to reply, read what I'm saying.

You think they deserve screen time. I have never felt that.

I think they've already had more than enough screen time, and any they had has just fed the insatiable delusions of those who seek to make them playable despite the fact they already are.

The only screen time High Elves deserve is to die on the battlefield of Darkshore and permanently end the hopes of pro High Elf fans.

Anything else is a waste of time that could be devoted to an actual Alliance race.

If Blizzard has no intentions of killing them off, then we can pray they stay in Dalaran and be forgotten by the story.

[ello]

It's a bit perplexing that Alliance players can't seem to understand why asking for the Horde's most popular race to be made effectively neutral can be a bit obnoxious.

You're basically saying "give me what I want and damn the unknowable but potentially serious consequences!" This is why Blizzard reiterated that High Elves are not a good idea, they aren't out to spite you, they have their reasons for keeping them unplayable.

You can have nice things, but you don't get our ice cream, eat your own.

[OIS]

Quick question: Will the nightborne have special jumping animation?

[Arrashi]

Quick question: Will the nightborne have special jumping animation?

The real question is - will zandalari have it. Trolls be flippin mon.

[OIS]

The real question is - will zandalari have it. Trolls be flippin mon.

I think it comes with the energies from the Well of Eternity.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You are welcome to disagree with anything you want. An open and ignorant denial towards blizzards clear stance on the other hand make you look like a fool.

Denial of what, pray tell. Kinda have the feeling you are just conflating every opposing opinion to favor your argument.

And the only mind-blowing thing about it whole situation is that there is group of adults (?) lacking ability to understand something as simple as "No". I can only imagine scenes you guys were pulling in toy stores as kids. "I HATE YOU MOM, I WILL KILL YOU, I HATE YOOOOUUUUUU".

I mean, if you think it's fair to put every argument in favor of high elves and coalesce it into a flimsy allegory for spoiled children, It's evident the level of nuance you bring to every conversation. Paint with those big strokes, girl!

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It's a bit perplexing that Alliance players can't seem to understand why asking for the Horde's most popular race to be made effectively neutral can be a bit obnoxious.

You're basically saying "give me what I want and damn the unknowable but potentially serious consequences!" This is why Blizzard reiterated that High Elves are not a good idea, they aren't out to spite you, they have their reasons for keeping them unplayable.

You can have nice things, but you don't get our ice cream, eat your own.

I think this has always been a strong argument, the big reason why belves where added to the horde was the population issue, there's no denying that.

The issue with it now, is that we don't know how void elves will affect this themselves. How much of the blue scheme puts this issue at bay?

And the second issue I have with this argument, is about the lore; they could have made void elves a group of voided high elves to follow that narrative thread; my main issue with the whole belf thing is why they had to be blood elves.

[ello]

I think this has always been a strong argument, the big reason why belves where added to the horde was the population issue, there's no denying that.

The issue with it now, is that we don't know how void elves will affect this themselves. How much of the blue scheme puts this issue at bay?

.

I think Void Elves are distinct enough that people who don't really care about factions but prefer the High Elf look would choose Blood Elves, and people who prefer the edgier voided-out look would choose Void Elves. That's probably what Blizzard is counting on.

And the second issue I have with this argument, is about the lore; they could have made void elves a group of voided high elves to follow that narrative thread; my main issue with the whole belf thing is why they had to be blood elves

well they ostensibly left Silvermoon because they had an ethical problem with being mana vampires so turning to the void would be pretty lorebreaking.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

No we won't. Blizzard keeps mentioning the population issue in regards to High Elves. So clearly THEY think it matters. You don't, but Blizzard's opinion trumps yours. As long as they keep using it, the rest of us can too.


Hmm...typical attempt to discredit Blizzard's very consistent position on this issue.

Caydiem's blue post syncs with the Warcraft encyclopedia. Which syncs with Metzen's 2006 interview with him gushing over how they were making a cool twist on High Elves playable. Which segues with the Warcraft encyclopedia. Which the Blizzard librarian confirmed in a tweet was still canon. Which all dovetails with what Ion said less than two months ago.

I tried rereading what you wrote above but couldn't find anything factual. I did find someone metaphorically sticking his fingers in his ears and pretending that what he was hearing wasn't what he was hearing. Twelve years of all the information on this topic gathered in one spot and you get the answer. It's a big fat No.

And this get's us back to the implication of it: Do you really thing there are more void elves than high elves? What's a more valid fact? statements, or plain in view evidence?

High Elves have been important to the overall narrative since Warcraft 2 when they fought beside the rest of the Alliance. Their near extinction at the hands of the Scourge, defection from the Alliance, re-christening of themselves as Blood Elves and their entry into the Horde has been a compelling story. I see no reason for it to end any time soon and I look forward to many more stories with them.

It's literally outstanding when you go for the "blood elf lore is high elf lore wah" argument when I literally call you on it on the next argument! It's like you want me to laugh at you. I mean the sheer inconsistency of every stance you have, high elf lore is blood elf lore when it suits you, when it doesn't high elf lore doesn't matter and they all should just rot/die.

You can't put together a gotcha because every snippet and word points to the opposite conclusion. I could put together a 'gotcha' because the evidence backs my position. And the 'High Elves' of Dalaran have as much right to further story as the Ogres of Dustwallow Marsh. If Blizzard wants to give them more story, fine. If it is them dying and being removed, brilliant. But if they are left to rot in Dalaran till the game shuts down I'll be fine with that too. They don't deserve the time they were given in earlier expansions, even when that was misrepresented as a High Elf story rather than as a Jaina or a Veressa story with some elves in it.

At least you are truthful about this and clearly state it as your own feelings about the issue. Good.

Do I need to repost the wall of text I put together above. You have dismantled nothing. You merely retreat to the childish response that 'Blizzard can do it what they want'

WELL DUH.

If they ever change their minds, we will all know about it. But the wall of text shows that they almost certainly won't.

If your only argument is that a Blizzard ex machina can deliver High Elves, you've no argument at all. After all, I could start a topic saying I want a playable race of Anduin Wrynns. Just everyone plays Anduin Wrynn. And if I were to utilise your 'debating tactic' which you claim has 'dismantled' my argument, all I'd have to say to the people pointing out how self evidently stupid such a suggestion would be is 'Blizzard can do whatever they like so I'm not wrong, it could happen'.

The fact that you keep going back to making this argument about the chances of high elves being playable is simply tiring.

How many times must I have literally, type over, and over again that is not the issue and concern I am positing dear lord?!

Current High Elf Lore should be addressed; Void Elves could have been a way to do this.

These are my points, which I have explained ad nauseam yet you keep going and going about "high elves being playable" with all the nuance of a fart.

The reason people keep calling out the "high elves can't be playable" factoids is because all of them are just rationalizations of why high elves aren't playable, not the reason, how can't you see that? Population, silhouette, lore, those are all things we have seen done the opposite IN GAME. How can those be "facts" when there is no consistency to them. How do those statements hold any weight when now we have an allied race made of a group of exiles. The lack of high elves (and again, modern, post split high elves, those that didn't rename themselves blood elves cause you just keep going back to this dar lord you are so tiring) is a choice, simply as that.

Blizzard is not wrong, nor right for not making high elves playable. You keep seeing the issue as a right or wrong answer, and I don't get why.

I can't avoid pointing your newest dumb argument "A race of Anduin Wrynn's" Is that your new thing? The ridiculous comparisons? A whole faction with lore and relevance compared to a playable race of Anduin Wrynn's.

I really can't fathom how deep you are into your own biases that you thought this was a smart point to make.

Just like the suggestion of playable High Elves is self evidently stupid. They are already playable.

A variant of them is being added to the game and they are also playable.

This ain't happening a third time.

Missing the point of high elves for the 100th time, congratulations! Not missing tho, disregarding.

Not to mention the fact that I have pointed now several times, this is not about the likelihood of high elves ever becoming playable. Good grief, of course Void Elves now make playable high elves an implausibility! Once and once and once and once again I have to keep typing how my issue is how void elves where the chance to tie it to high elf lore (and again, modern, post split high elves, those that didn't rename themselves blood elves cause you just keep going back to this dar lord you are so tiring, so so tiring).

My issue is that I disagree with blizzard writing choices on this.

again, this is the stupidest argument ever. And inevitable. You aren't the first person who has retreated to this position, you won't be the last. But it does mean you've run out of arguments, just like everyone else before you has retreated to this.

No, Obelisk, it just means you keep valiantly missing the point of everyone else's concerns. Again, why do you think there's a right or wrong answer for this? Don't you think if there ever was we wouldn't have all these countless high elf threads? Right, the answer must be that every simple person that cares about high elves is just an idiot that can't take no for an answer

Lack? They are playable on the Horde, an emo variant is playable on the Alliance. Lack implies people are being denied something. These people are making a choice to deny themselves playing a thalassian elf. That is on them.

I filled another "high elves are playable on the horde" punch card.

Who's denying themselves from playing a blood elf? Not me. I love blood elf lore. But Blood Elf lore is not high elf, silver covenant lore, is not, you know this. Neither is void elf lore, it is not. So, as someone who's issue is with the dangling high elf lore, blood and void elf lore is irrelevant. Yet you keep bringing them up.

Maybe Blizzard felt there weren't even enough High Elves left to realistically cover a small band of exiles.

Or maybe it was just not a well written plot, maybe void elves were not well set up and their introduction feels out of nowhere and rushed. Maybe it just show how flimsy the whole population argument has always been.

Maybe.

You think they deserve screen time. I have never felt that.

I think they've already had more than enough screen time, and any they had has just fed the insatiable delusions of those who seek to make them playable despite the fact they already are.

The only screen time High Elves deserve is to die on the battlefield of Darkshore and permanently end the hopes of pro High Elf fans.

Anything else is a waste of time that could be devoted to an actual Alliance race.

If Blizzard has no intentions of killing them off, then we can pray they stay in Dalaran and be forgotten by the story.

No matter how many times you repeat that, you know why high elves and blood elves are different. Why do you keep fooling yourself?

But sure, we can disagree on how much screentime they deserved, on what screetime they deserved.

But hey, if they had been playable all of these years, at least all of the screentime they have had would have made more sense. Even know, it would be a pay off.

Regardless, we agree on one thing. Destroy the Silver Covenant, and most high elf hope will die. Not all, but most.

Yet again, that has little to do with my issues with Blizzard's writing.

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I think Void Elves are distinct enough that people who don't really care about factions but prefer the High Elf look would choose Blood Elves, and people who prefer the edgier voided-out look would choose Void Elves. That's probably what Blizzard is counting on.

Perhaps, although either way, we can't ever now know how High Elves on the alliance would have affected population issues differently than void elves will

well they ostensibly left Silvermoon because they had an ethical problem with being mana vampires so turning to the void would be pretty lorebreaking.

This is a point that many high elf fans would agree on, but that I have never fully bought. Full stop, I never bought into high elves as being "gooder" than blood elves. It just plays into all of the alliance weaker aspects, where every race is just more "morally upstanding" and just a weal spot of characterization for Blizzard overall when it comes to the morality of each faction.

Pride and self righteousness are valid reasons to look down on vampiric tendencies, we don't have to frame it as just simply being "gooder". Pride, self righteousness and bad luck could lead to voidy ends.

Regardless, there's also the fact that we only know that anti-mana tap stance was true for Quel'lithien high elves, not true for all high elves, specially the Silver Covenant, who is the prominent high elf faction remaining and counted with a warlock trainer. The fact that Vereesa seems if a bit surprised, pretty chill about Alleria eating a dark Naaru and being an embodiment of the void, is pretty much the only thing we have as to how high elves would respond to using void powers.

So unless next expansion we see the SC disavowing Alleria and her powers, so far, through Vereesa, we don't see that as an issue.

[Obelisk Kai]

And this get's us back to the implication of it: Do you really thing there are more void elves than high elves? What's a more valid fact? statements, or plain in view evidence?

And you keep missing my own response on this matter. Ironic for someone who has serially accused me of not reading what he is saying. BLIZZARD are the ones who introduced the population argument. Blizzard are the ones who have brought it up time and time again when asked about playable High Elves.
Nobody argues that Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei have small populations. A few hundred individuals at best. Which means one of two things, since Blizzard keeps doubling down on the population issue for High Elves alone.

Either there are more Void Elves and Lightforged Draenei than surviving High Elves (which is very plausible) OR the High Elves extremely low population, coupled with their lack of distinctiveness from the Blood Elves, means they aren't worth the effort to make playable.

I happen to think both answers are probably true. There are probably less High Elves than either of the 'special forces' Allied Races and they don't bring anything new to the table for Blizzard to bother with them, not to mention Blizzard is likely extremely reluctant to duplicate a core race of one faction on the other side. It took them thirteen years to agree a High Elf variant after all.

It's literally outstanding when you go for the "blood elf lore is high elf lore wah" argument when I literally call you on it on the next argument! It's like you want me to laugh at you. I mean the sheer inconsistency of every stance you have, high elf lore is blood elf lore when it suits you, when it doesn't high elf lore doesn't matter and they all should just rot/die.

High Elf lore and Blood Elf lore is identical up to the point the rabble was kicked out of Silvermoon. After that, what you term 'high elf' lore refers to a insignificant group who hang around Dalaran and who have no real story of their own to speak of.

At least you are truthful about this and clearly state it as your own feelings about the issue. Good.

My feelings are backed up by a boatload of evidence from the developers. All you have is your feelings.

The fact that you keep going back to making this argument about the chances of high elves being playable is simply tiring.

How many times must I have literally, type over, and over again that is not the issue and concern I am positing dear lord?!

Current High Elf Lore should be addressed; Void Elves could have been a way to do this.

These are my points, which I have explained ad nauseam yet you keep going and going about "high elves being playable" with all the nuance of a fart.

Your complaint about the High Elf story is irritating . It implies that a small group of traitors are the true High Elves, and not the vast majority of the race which remained loyal to Silvermoon and joined the Horde. The High Elf storyline is not a loose thread that needs wrapping up, it is active, it is vibrant and there are still many more stories to tell. You give the rabble in Dalaran too much dignity by insisting Blizzard should spend precious writing time on a non playable group. Why not more time for the Worgen as they take back their homeland? Why not more time for the Gnomes or the Dwarves? Why must players invested in actual, active Alliance races have to wait their turn to sate a fetish for High Elves? A race that is not playable by the Alliance?

Besides you think this debate takes place in a vacuum? Just you and me? Say you got this 'story development' for a non playable Alliance grouping. You'd just feed the insatiable demands of those who still, despite thirteen years of time and getting Void Elves, use ANY screen time for the SC as a reason as to why Alliance Helves should be a thing. Anything short of the SC getting massacred is the wrong move. Let them be a loose thread, rotting in Dalaran. Let the Void Elves take over their role in the Alliance, at least they are playable.

The reason people keep calling out the "high elves can't be playable" factoids is because all of them are just rationalizations of why high elves aren't playable, not the reason, how can't you see that? Population, silhouette, lore, those are all things we have seen done the opposite IN GAME. How can those be "facts" when there is no consistency to them. How do those statements hold any weight when now we have an allied race made of a group of exiles. The lack of high elves (and again, modern, post split high elves, those that didn't rename themselves blood elves cause you just keep going back to this dar lord you are so tiring) is a choice, simply as that.

Well yeah, all that stuff evolved because people over complicated the issue. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance a duplicate of a core Horde race. And Blood Elves are High Elves. It would be the exact same if people were asking for Alliance Grimtotem. The Grimtotem are identical to a core Horde race but they are not a part of the Horde and are completely at odds with the majority of their people.

Should the Grimtotem get story time at the expense of ordinary Tauren? Should we pretend they are actually different from regular old Tauren because of a political disagreement?

Blizzard is not wrong, nor right for not making high elves playable. You keep seeing the issue as a right or wrong answer, and I don't get why.

Easy. People want a core Horde race. I'd be as outraged if people were asking for Orcs or Trolls or Goblins. Or Tauren. If people want to play a race on my faction, they can play my faction.

I can't avoid pointing your newest dumb argument "A race of Anduin Wrynn's" Is that your new thing? The ridiculous comparisons? A whole faction with lore and relevance compared to a playable race of Anduin Wrynn's.

I really can't fathom how deep you are into your own biases that you thought this was a smart point to make.

The whole faction is the Blood Elves and what you refer to as the High Elves are a sad group of outcasts who don't even have a point to the story now that Void Elves are here. And it was actually a pretty good point, because you are pointing how monumentally stupid the suggestion is. Just like the suggestion of playable High Elves is monumentally stupid...and selfish.

Missing the point of high elves for the 100th time, congratulations! Not missing tho, disregarding.

Not to mention the fact that I have pointed now several times, this is not about the likelihood of high elves ever becoming playable. Good grief, of course Void Elves now make playable high elves an implausibility! Once and once and once and once again I have to keep typing how my issue is how void elves where the chance to tie it to high elf lore (and again, modern, post split high elves, those that didn't rename themselves blood elves cause you just keep going back to this dar lord you are so tiring, so so tiring).

My issue is that I disagree with blizzard writing choices on this.

Again, I don't really care about your specific gripe. I am concerned with how it feeds into the overall argument. Give the High Elves attention, feed the lie they are a playable race in waiting. You should be thankful they got the attention they did. Blizzard was trying to inject a little nuance into the game, to show some complexity, to nod towards their history by having the last of the last of the last Alliance loyal thalassian elves have a bit part in the story. Got ten years of whining. So, lesson learned, they all need to be forgotten about or killed and we should return to sharp dividing lines between the factions.

No, Obelisk, it just means you keep valiantly missing the point of everyone else's concerns. Again, why do you think there's a right or wrong answer for this? Don't you think if there ever was we wouldn't have all these countless high elf threads? Right, the answer must be that every simple person that cares about high elves is just an idiot that can't take no for an answer

Well after thirteen years what else am I supposed to think? Most other groups would have taken the hint by now.

I filled another "high elves are playable on the horde" punch card.

Did you fill one out when Ion, the game director, said it too?

Who's denying themselves from playing a blood elf? Not me. I love blood elf lore. But Blood Elf lore is not high elf, silver covenant lore, is not, you know this. Neither is void elf lore, it is not. So, as someone who's issue is with the dangling high elf lore, blood and void elf lore is irrelevant. Yet you keep bringing them up.

The Silver Covenant have no lore. They are not a unique race. They are a crutch for Veressa whenever SHE needs to have a story moment. Time should not be wasted on this group. High Elf lore is Blood Elf lore and vice versa. The story of the High Elves is continuing in the Blood Elf story.

Or maybe it was just not a well written plot, maybe void elves were not well set up and their introduction feels out of nowhere and rushed. Maybe it just show how flimsy the whole population argument has always been.

Then why do Blizzard keep using it in regards to High Elves?

No matter how many times you repeat that, you know why high elves and blood elves are different. Why do you keep fooling yourself?

But sure, we can disagree on how much screentime they deserved, on what screetime they deserved.

But hey, if they had been playable all of these years, at least all of the screentime they have had would have made more sense. Even know, it would be a pay off.

Regardless, we agree on one thing. Destroy the Silver Covenant, and most high elf hope will die. Not all, but most.

Yet again, that has little to do with my issues with Blizzard's writing.

It is this denial that Blood Elves are different from High Elves that grates. Blood Elves ARE High Elves. That is the entire point, confirmed multiple times by the devs. You have the gall to say I am fooling myself when we have found in this thread an interview where Chris Metzen, the creator of the Warcraft universe, called them the High Elves. When Ion says they are High Elves. It is YOU who is fooling himself by pretending a group of sad exiles clustered in the corner of a single Human city are the actual heirs to the High Elf storyline and so they deserve storytime and focus. They don't. They are a distraction and have given false hope for too long.

They should all either die or be ignored. And they've been ignored for the last four years since their small cameo in 5.1 and 5.2 so I don't see how ignoring them for the next ten is going to cause much bother.

[Alanar]

It is this denial that Blood Elves are different from High Elves that grates. Blood Elves ARE High Elves. That is the entire point, confirmed multiple times by the devs. You have the gall to say I am fooling myself when we have found in this thread an interview where Chris Metzen, the creator of the Warcraft movie, called them the High Elves. When Ion says they are High Elves. It is YOU who is fooling himself by pretending a group of sad exiles clustered in the corner of a single Human city are the actual heirs to the High Elf storyline and so they deserve storytime and focus. They don't. They are a distraction and have given false hope for too long.

They should all either die or be ignored. And they've been ignored for the last four years since their small cameo in 5.1 and 5.2 so I don't see how ignoring them for the next ten is going to cause much bother.

This and thank you.

[Deleted]

all i read in antihe posts:

"HA NO HE", "HE = BE, ALREADY INGAME. PLAY HORDE LUL", "THEY ARE GOING TO ADD THEM, YOU CAN STFU NOW", "NOPE, FCK ALLYBOIS AMIRITE?"

some oneliners, some walls. what are you trying to accomplish with this endless trollin ? the massive paid/grinded racechange will happen anyway


Also, why quote the devs at all? they go back on their words time and time again.

Also2, about the model being the same with blue eyes: what about the nightborne? different idle pose and tattos hidden under armour is not enough, same model basicaly. So why is it good enough for night elves but not for belves? guess nobody gives a fck about night elves


they one thing that gets me salty AF everytime is alleria. perfect wc2 ranger, tattoos included. Why put that there for HE fans to see daily just to crush hopes with draenei skin elves.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

void elves are technically high elves....they really are....except for some class restrictions (for example some people would like to play as a paladin, i feel them but it is what it is) they are exiled blood elves playable in the alliance (and as we know, blood elves = high elves). the smart people will embrace this and will forever be happy with this adition....the others, will cry for all etirnity and will never find peace and joy in this game. i dont intent to become one of them

I think what people like you are missing is that nobody in the High Elf fanbase asked for an entire race of fucking literal emos.