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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    @Sturmbringe

    Using the 13 dps store bought ammo. No wonder your guild calls it at Geddon.
    Actually, I use Thorium Arrows (17 DPS) only at boss fights and Doomshot (20DPS) at Ragnaros only.



    Pretty much no hunter with a brain uses Thorium Arrows on trash.

    Nice attempt at trolling though, you get 2/10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warlordoflordwar View Post
    lol @ using private server as source. Many of them have bugs and high ratings that makes it very easy to obtain lots of consumables, stack stats etc.

    The point of world buffs (and the many consumables) is that you have the OPTION to be OP if you are willing to spend time getting it. Most of the time you won't have it. And if you die, you lose it.
    The server I am playing has got no bugs. It is, as far as raid buffs and gear is concerned, an exact copy of Retail Vanilla.

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    I am going to list my gear:

    Head: Backwood Helm (Patch 1.3 Dire Maul quest reward)
    Neck: Mark Of Fordring (EPL quest)
    Shoulders: Truestrike Shoulders (UBRS)
    Chest: Ogre-Forged Hauberk (DM Tribute)
    Back: Dark Phantom Cape (World Drop)
    Wrist: Bracers of the Stone Princess (Maraudon Drop)
    Melee Weapon: Barbarous Blade (DM North)
    Ranged Weapon: Stoneshatter (DM West)
    Hands: Devilsaur Gloves (Tribal LW)
    Waist: Warpwood Binding (DM West)
    Legs: Devilsaur Leggings (Tribal LW)
    Feet: Beaststalker's Boots (Stratholme UD)
    Ring: Tarnished Elven Ring (DM Tribute)
    Ring: Painweaver Band (UBRS)
    Trinket 1: Blackhand's Breadth (Quest UBRS/LBRS)
    Trinket 2: Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas (DM Class Book Quest)

    I had the following buffs: Onyxia Buff (+5% Crit), DM Buff (+200 RAP, +15% Stamina), Elixir of the Mongoose (2% Crit 25 Agi=50 RAP), Grilled Squid (+10 Agi=20 RAP), Gift Of The Wild (Druid), Blessing Of Kings (Loladin), Trueshot Aura (+100 RAP)

    Note that I am missing two (2) pre-Raid BIS items, Cape of The Black Baron and Bracers Of The Eclipse. Had I obtained these two items, I'd get an ADDITIONAL 50 RAP bringing up my total RAP to 1520.

    I am sitting UNBUFFED at 1108 RAP and 20% to crit in an era of the game where the vast majority of the toons had 750 AP and 12% to crit IF they were lucky and they had some decent blue gear in addition to their green stuff.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2017-12-29 at 12:17 PM.
    Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
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    Spoiler alert, 95% of vanilla raiding is going to be easy as fuck because players know nearly every trick in the book now. Thread is case in point.
    ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The fun factor would go up 1000x if WQs existed in vanilla

  3. #23
    Wait wait, so this is a justified change to vanilla?

    I understand the concern completely, I am not saying no... But why would this get changed and not let everyone have the option to see newer char models?
    Only the user himself can see the models, doesn't affect anyone else in any way at all.

    Same goes for any change whatsoever, wasn't there the annoying theme of "vanilla should be vanilla, for bad or worse?"

    Playing retard's advocate here only. (if it was up to me, some changes would be made to classic server to fit 2018/19 including your mentioned fix to make raiding non trivial)
    Last edited by Kazlofski; 2017-12-29 at 11:57 AM.

  4. #24
    The amount of effort it takes to get all those buffs is insane and then you could end up getting ganked outside the raid instance. If you are using them in MC then you clearly have too much time on your hands. For wall bosses like Loatheb in Naxx the buffs were awesome. For all bosses before that they weren't even needed.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinky View Post
    The amount of effort it takes to get all those buffs is insane and then you could end up getting ganked outside the raid instance. If you are using them in MC then you clearly have too much time on your hands. For wall bosses like Loatheb in Naxx the buffs were awesome. For all bosses before that they weren't even needed.
    No it's not? You do realise on private servers every snigle guild does it pretty much?

  6. #26
    The case of Fire Resistance:

    The Ragnaros fight in Vanilla was an encounter completely designed around Fire Resistance. So, if a DPS obtains around 150 Fire Resistance (I had 160), this means that one is going to be unkillable for the duration of the fight even if they get zero healing from Raid healers.

    Case in point:

    My Base Fire Resistance: 10 (DM Class Book)
    UBRS Fire Resistance Buff: 90
    Loladin Fire Protection Aura: 60 +
    ================================

    Total Fire Resistance: 160

    Note that we also bring a Greater Fire Protection Potion (guild requirement) which absorbs 1750 t0 3250 Fire Damage to the fight.

    So here you have a DPS'er doing the encounter with 160 Fire Resistance AND a Greater Fire Protection Potion making him unkillable. Of course, this is "clever use of game mechanics" but it completely trivializes the encounter.
    Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

  7. #27
    @Sprinky
    You obviously just save the Onyxia head, and meet up with your raid in Stormwind or Orgrimmar. So that is not an issue at all.

    DM North is fairly easy, you just have 5 or 10 guys show up early to clear 1 or 2 instances allowing the whole raid to walk in and get the buffs. The only time consumption here is the fact that the instance is max 5 players.

    Neither of these two take any amount of time to gather. You just log at DM if you can't log on before raid time, get your buff in 5 minutes. Hearthstone to SW or Org, then wait for the rest of the guild to get ready. Turn in the head, then go off to the raid. The only noteworthy time consumption is doing the Tribute run, but even that can be done in 20 minutes easy, even when you kill a few too many mobs to make it safer to get through for the next players.

    Even if you were not using DM buffs, the raid still has 10% spell crit, 5% melee/ranged crit and 140 attack power from the onyxia buff alone. @Sturmbringe is also not using the songflower buff from Felwood, which add 5% melee, ranged and spell crit.
    Patch 1.12, and not one step further!

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by motive View Post

    There is also another one for ZG, but I cannot remember what it is (I think speed increase and 20% stat increase?). But anyway; in my opinion these are borderline game-breaking, and completely undermine the use for consumeables, and they should really just not be able to work in raids, please do not tell me to go play Legion, it's pathetic. But asides from that, please discuss!
    World Buffs used to be crucial in Realm first kills. They were as much a part of the game for Hardcore raiders as Pots and Flasks.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    Yes, Blizzard should make changes so that such buffs cannot be used in Raids.

    Let me elaborate:

    Yesterday we raided MC in a new server which runs on Patch 1.3. I had the Onyxia buff and the Dire Maul Buffs.

    Here's my character's stats:



    I had 1470 Attack Power and 30% Crit. This is absolutely ridiculous. We are facerolling all raid content b/c of the buffs.

    Even worse, before we do Ragnaros, we go into UBRS where a Priest MC's a mob there and then proceeds to buff all the raid via the MC'd mob with a 90 Fire Resist Buff.

    At yesterday's Ragnaros, I had 153 Fire Resistance. This is absolutely ridiculous. This abuse of buffs and game mechanics has to be stopped. Back in Retail vanilla in 2005, few guilds -if any- used all of the above strategies but now that they are widely known, everyone must use them otherwise they will stay behind in raid progression.

    Also note that my character above has got ZERO epic gear. If I had even full T1, I would have had much more AP and crit. This character merely has Patch 1.3 pre-raid BIS,
    Dude, Nighthaven - Elysium is not 1.3 patch. It is 1.12. for all mechanics or patchings.
    It is only the content there that is currently gated at 1.3.

    This is why it is so easy, not because of your buffs.

    Ofcourse these buffs help alot, but it takes it time to get em aswell.
    All these buffs you mentioned was used by all top guilds back in vanilla, mostly for progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmbringe View Post
    The server I am playing has got no bugs. It is, as far as raid buffs and gear is concerned, an exact copy of Retail Vanilla.
    WTF ??? LOL - Really, this is just so wrong, dont know if you're even trying to troll.
    Last edited by epLe; 2017-12-29 at 12:29 PM.

  10. #30
    It is against the board's rules to mention private server names here so edit them out.

    Everybody is aware that we are using 1.12 talents here which makes the fights easier, however it is not the talents that trivialize encounters, it is the ridiculous overbuffage.

    No, it does not take time to get ridiculously overbuffed. Here's how a Vanilla Raid Guild works (Poster MMKing explained that before):

    • Step 1: Five people who need gear from DM tribute log on and clear DM Tribute Run two hours before the raid.
    • Step 2: They convert their party to a Raid and then log out. One of the five stays logged on or invites another guild member who will stay logged on for the next 2 hours.
    • Step 3: Raiders - as they log on - travel to Dire Maul, enter the DM North Raid Instance, and get the DM Buffs. This requires abt 8 minutes, 5 minutes with Aspect of The Pack. Then, they HS back to SW or Org.
    • Step 4: Raiders log out until the pre-determined time the head of Onyxia is agreed to be popped at SW or Org.
    • Step 5: All raiders log on at a set time , 2 minutes before the HEad of Ony is popped, say 18:58.
    • Step 6: Head of Onyxia is popped at 19:00, all of the raid gets the buff which stacks with DM Buffs. Portal to IF/UC.
    • Step 7: Travel to MC via Thorium point as a group, 10 mins max.
    Last edited by Sturmbringe; 2017-12-29 at 12:37 PM.
    Veteran vanilla player - I was 31 back in 2005 when I started playing WoW - Nostalrius raider with a top raid guild.

  11. #31
    Its at least half hour of prep at the start of the raid to get the buffs with all the travel time etc. Then if another guild pops Onyxia head before you, then no Onyxia buff for you. My guild in vanilla was pretty hardcore and we didn't use the world buffs for kills until iirc C'thun or Loatheb. If you can kill Onyxia for the head without the world buffs then you can clear MC & most of BWL without the buffs. If your guild needs world buffs to kill Ragnaros then nobody will care if you use them. If you are that bad then you wont be able to kill any of the harder bosses later on even with the world buffs.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinky View Post
    Its at least half hour of prep at the start of the raid to get the buffs with all the travel time etc. Then if another guild pops Onyxia head before you, then no Onyxia buff for you. My guild in vanilla was pretty hardcore and we didn't use the world buffs for kills until iirc C'thun or Loatheb. If you can kill Onyxia for the head without the world buffs then you can clear MC & most of BWL without the buffs. If your guild needs world buffs to kill Ragnaros then nobody will care if you use them. If you are that bad then you wont be able to kill any of the harder bosses later on even with the world buffs.
    That doesn't stop everyone from using it!

  13. #33
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    “Vanilla means Vanilla”

    Don’t like OP buffs that work in raids? Go play retail.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by motive View Post
    That doesn't stop everyone from using it!
    Only terrible people will use it. Also doesn't Onyxias head buff have a lockout? So only 1 guild will be able to get that buff unless guilds cooperate together for it.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinky View Post
    Only terrible people will use it. Also doesn't Onyxias head buff have a lockout? So only 1 guild will be able to get that buff unless guilds cooperate together for it.
    Nah, literally every guild uses it, good and bad on pservers

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by motive View Post
    Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nah, literally every guild uses it, good and bad on pservers
    I think in vanilla the buff had a 2 or 3 hour lockout so the buff was only cast once every 2-3 hours. As someone else mentioned, most private servers are also 1.12 patched which makes all classes a lot more powerful than they were at the start of vanilla. I'm not saying people wont use the buffs, but I'm saying that a bad guild wont kill hard bosses even with the buffs. In real vanilla the world buffs had very little impact on the progression race.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by motive View Post
    Haha, thank god! Someone who actually has played on vanilla, not a bunch of retail babies who have no clue! Do you know how it is, when I have dal'rends, to do 2.2k crit with bloodthirst? It's sickening, literally 1.3k dps on luciforn with pre-bis (I am even missing some). And best of all, you stupid prats can't even say this is QoL, since this is making the game harder

    Literally, I've spoken to top players on vanilla servers, and they all agree they're game-breaking. Glad to see some people with sense.
    Hey mate. I actually agree with you on the world buff issue. But please don't end your initial thread description with "please discuss" and then use terms like "retail babies" and "stupid prats" when people have another opinion than you. If everyone were in agreement we would have no discussion. I understand you think some arguments are "stupid" (I do too). But you can't initiate a discussing if you're not willing to at least respect those "stupid" arguments

  18. #38
    No. This kind of "removing all the rough edges" kind of thinking makes the game more balanced, but also more bland. Making tanking druids awesome by collecting lvl 40 world drops, having to do solo runs of low level dungeons to get nature resist gear, tanking bosses in mail for more tank dps are all great memories from years ago. So is my guild leader describing what order the buffs have to be stacked optimally and people screwing it up afterwards.
    I dont remember anything about fighting the perfectly balanced boss from that one place in cataclysm, while wearing standard gear and being buffed by a guild flask and a guild feast though. Or any of the other 100 bosses, where I did exactly that.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
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  19. #39
    The Patient shifu's Avatar
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    You make it sound like these buff are getting handed out like candy. Like everyone and their mother had these buffs on them for every single raid ever.

    The Nefarian head and Onyxia head buffs wont be readily available for months after lunch. And even then all the buffs you are describing takes and immense amount of time and coordination to get a full raid buffed and using these buffs. I'm not saying these buffs arnt OP what so ever. Hell I distinctly remember saving my head of nefarian and head of onyxia for weeks on end till we were on bosses our raid struggled on then used them only then. They were only ever used for progression not for every day raiding night. I really dont see the problem here.

    Plus if i remember correctly you could only turn in a head once a day or once a week. So it wasint like "Ok the raid died. Everyone hearth back to SW and Johnny its your time to turn in your head. Lets get this buff and head back to Rag." It was used maybe once a week when you were stuck on a boss. Not for every single raid night.

    What I do remember 100% is the quest could only be turned in once per character. Back in Vanilla most people only every had one lvl 60. Very seldom would you come across someone who would have multiple 60s. And even more seldom would they be raiding with both chrs. So given you had a 40 man raid you only had a finite amount of turn ins on the head. Very seldom would multiple guilds tell others guilds they were dropping a head due to competition for server / world first guild were very secrative about when they dropped the head of nef or ony. Plus with the head only dropping once a week for your raid. It would take 40 weeks to get every single person to turn in that head. So usually only had one opportunity per week to use this buff.

    Yeah im not seeing the problem when looking back at Vanilla.

    However when looking at possible issue with Classic. Given what the player base knows know. And the potential that other guilds in Classic might be more inclinded to work together since server first are no longer a thing. Yeah i could understand how this could pose an interesting issue down the road for classic. However lets cross that bridge when we get their? lets not get ahead of our self when comparing privet servers to vanilla.
    If i was riding a donkey down the road. And someone threw a rock and knocked me off. Would i be stoned off my ass?

  20. #40
    So the point of this thread is to remove something from vanila that was in vanila and people used it back then (maybe not the the extent that people use it today on private servers are most of the players were clueless whats going on 12 years ago)?

    dont think its gonna happen, if they do remove them, then an avalanche will start with "omg if blizz did X why cant they do Y", for the health of the game its better to leave them in, no matter how stupid they are (or you think they are)

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