Keep it simple

[Nerovar]

Earlier today I checked out some of the screenshots on the frontpage (mainly because I was interested in seeing the new zones) when something struck my eye. Some of the screenshots seem to show actual gameplay footage in which you can see some interesting changes to the UI. I'm talking about the change that happened to the action bars (or to be precise: the position of the action bars and the fact that only 2 are enabled by default (compared to three in Legion etc.)). But what really worries me is the fact that in most screenshots and also gameplay videos from Blizzcon nobody seems to be able to fill two action bars. It really saddens me to see what empty husks most classes have become in Legion and I really had hopes for BfA to bring back some of the complexity that we had in previous expansions. Now please bear in mind that all the footage shown is only at level 110 so it might be possible that they introduce a number of spells when we hit max level.
What are you thoughts on this? Do you think classes should stay straightforward or do you want Blizzard to add more complexity when it comes to class mechanics?

[Ilir]

Earlier today I checked out some of the screenshots on the frontpage (mainly because I was interested in seeing the new zones) when something struck my eye. Some of the screenshots seem to show actual gameplay footage in which you can see some interesting changes to the UI. I'm talking about the change that happened to the action bars (or to be precise: the position of the action bars and the fact that only 2 are enabled by default (compared to three in Legion etc.)). But what really worries me is the fact that in most screenshots and also gameplay videos from Blizzcon nobody seems to be able to fill two action bars. It really saddens me to see what empty husks most classes have become in Legion and I really had hopes for BfA to bring back some of the complexity that we had in previous expansions. Now please bear in mind that all the footage shown is only at level 110 so it might be possible that they introduce a number of spells when we hit max level.
What are you thoughts on this? Do you think classes should stay straightforward or do you want Blizzard to add more complexity when it comes to class mechanics?

Classes weren't complex before.

I didn't feel more complex with a a buff that I had to use every wipe/every hour or the random "sooth animal".

Or that one spell that I had to use every min, on CD.

More spells =/= more difficult.

pls stop with threads like these.

[Dahij]

Um, by default only 1 action bar has been enabled throughout WoW, you've been able to add bottom left, bottom right and 2 side bars through the interface menu and this is also the case for BfA. I also doubt the amount of skills each class has access to is going to change from Legion to BfA, if anything, there will be at least one more since buffs are returning.

[Deleted]

Sounds a lot like bs. Even on my aff lock, which is hardly the most complex spec in the game, I have 4 bars bound and filled. 1st bar is for main rotation, 2nd is for cooldowns, consumables and assorted other stuff, 3rd bar is for cc, utility and so on, 4th bar is for mounts, summons, other stuff used occasionally or out of combat. Several of these buttons are macros, but for the most part it's not artificially bloated, none of those buttons are sitting there unpressed in either pve or pvp.

On my alts it's mostly similar, at worst my main bar (with rotational abilities) is not fully filled into "9 0 - +". Mostly on healers, where I click cast main healing spells from an addon anyway and primary is for dps spells (all 3-4 of them) and maintenance/totems/pally flashlight etc.

[Corroc]

Only thing I can really say about this is "its not all about the numbers". When you think about the action bars, two action bars is 24 buttons. How would you bind 24 buttons comfortably? The reason for having spells in your action bars is because you want to bind them. Of course there are items like hearthstone,potions etc. that you also might want to bind. I have only 17 binds that I'm comfortable using and that is enough for most of the classes. So I would say 24 action bar slots is just enough.

There have only been handful of classes that have had too many spells and that's due to nature of their gameplay. Mw monks and hunters are the first ones that I can think of.

[gcsmith]

Earlier today I checked out some of the screenshots on the frontpage (mainly because I was interested in seeing the new zones) when something struck my eye. Some of the screenshots seem to show actual gameplay footage in which you can see some interesting changes to the UI. I'm talking about the change that happened to the action bars (or to be precise: the position of the action bars and the fact that only 2 are enabled by default (compared to three in Legion etc.)). But what really worries me is the fact that in most screenshots and also gameplay videos from Blizzcon nobody seems to be able to fill two action bars. It really saddens me to see what empty husks most classes have become in Legion and I really had hopes for BfA to bring back some of the complexity that we had in previous expansions. Now please bear in mind that all the footage shown is only at level 110 so it might be possible that they introduce a number of spells when we hit max level.
What are you thoughts on this? Do you think classes should stay straightforward or do you want Blizzard to add more complexity when it comes to class mechanics?

2? I have 3 just for a demon hunter, admitedly 1 is all my utility like pots/mounts etc, but I can still fill 2 for demon hunters.

[Corroc]

Sounds a lot like bs. Even on my aff lock, which is hardly the most complex spec in the game, I have 4 bars bound and filled. 1st bar is for main rotation, 2nd is for cooldowns, consumables and assorted other stuff, 3rd bar is for cc, utility and so on, 4th bar is for mounts, summons, other stuff used occasionally or out of combat. Several of these buttons are macros, but for the most part it's not artificially bloated, none of those buttons are sitting there unpressed in either pve or pvp.

On my alts it's mostly similar, at worst my main bar (with rotational abilities) is unfilled... mostly on healers, where I click cast main healing spells from an addon anyway and primary is for dps spells (all 3-4 of them) and maintenance/totems/pally flashlight etc.

definetly have to see a screenshot of this. Besides that sounds like real hassle to bind 48 buttons.

[cparle87]

"Empty husks." Cool story, bro. You lost any credibility at that point.

- - - Updated - - -

Only thing I can really say about this is "its not all about the numbers". When you think about the action bars, two action bars is 24 buttons. How would you bind 24 buttons comfortably? The reason for having spells in your action bars is because you want to bind them. Of course there are items like hearthstone,potions etc. that you also might want to bind. I have only 17 binds that I'm comfortable using and that is enough for most of the classes. So I would say 24 action bar slots is just enough.

There have only been handful of classes that have had too many spells and that's due to nature of their gameplay. Mw monks and hunters are the first ones that I can think of.

Druids have a lot, but I've been able to cut down the slots pretty easily. Caster form has things I can only do in caster form, like rez and dreamwalk. Cat form has cat only moves like tiger's fury. Bear form has bear only moves like frenzied regen. And across the bottom left and bottom right I have things that are used in multiple forms like swipe and thrash, and things I'd be able to want to access in all forms, like brez.

[Nerovar]

Classes weren't complex before.

I didn't feel more complex with a a buff that I had to use every wipe/every hour or the random "sooth animal".

Or that one spell that I had to use every min, on CD.

More spells =/= more difficult.

pls stop with threads like these.

That's your opinion. The way I see it, less abilities=less potential.

Sounds a lot like bs. Even on my aff lock, which is hardly the most complex spec in the game, I have 4 bars bound and filled. 1st bar is for main rotation, 2nd is for cooldowns, consumables and assorted other stuff, 3rd bar is for cc, utility and so on, 4th bar is for mounts, summons, other stuff used occasionally or out of combat. Several of these buttons are macros, but for the most part it's not artificially bloated, none of those buttons are sitting there unpressed in either pve or pvp.

On my alts it's mostly similar, at worst my main bar (with rotational abilities) is not fully filled into "9 0 - +". Mostly on healers, where I click cast main healing spells from an addon anyway and primary is for dps spells (all 3-4 of them) and maintenance/totems/pally flashlight etc.

Of course you're not wrong. Especially when it comes to PvP some classes tend to have more binds than others (mostly because of CC/arena target macros) but just look at classes like Frost DKs. When you don't have flasks/pots/engineer/mounts etc. as keybinds then you'll have a hard time filling even two action bars. I'm not saying that Frost DK was rocket science back in ye good ol' days but it certainly wasn't boring because of things like rune management, stance dance etc. and I can't look over the fact that I lost more than a third of my binds with Legion. Some specs have more binds because things like pets/demons artificially inflate the number of binds just like arena123 macros.

"Empty husks." Cool story, bro. You lost any credibility at that point.

Oh no.

[Netherspark]

I play Warlock, all 6 of my bars are full. Granted, one is all mounts and another is all pets and summons.

[Soisoisoi]

You have to realise the screenshots from BlizzCon are where nobody wants to spend time on fixing their UI and putting all the random spells on their action bar, they are on a very set time limit.

[Deleted]

Suddenly, I see einen norddeutschen Jung' here. (I'm from Kiel, too)
Back to topic:
- in the blizzcon alpha, no ability pruning was seen
- also some classes had 1-2 baseline abilities more (through the old artifact abilities and raid buffs and stuff)
- same goes for talents, I think (from my exp with 9 110classes with all spec artifacts) all but a few had a significant impact on the playstyle, so seeing some of them go into the talents (like f.e. with the elemental shaman) is nice
- they want to change the base UI, but know that most of us use addons anyway. Their focus is simplicity for new players. While that sounds odd, it changes nothing really for you and me. Also I don't see, where 1 bar should be missing on any screenshot or video.
- from my gamescom experience I can say: You have no freaking time to bind all the stuff you would bind on your own character. I played the seat of the triumvirate with my main class (monk) and just threw it all in there, because we wanted to kill L'ura and see the whole dungeon in the time we had
- they already shared their plan for BfA: No Legion-style-class-rework. (but they aren't happy with the survival hunter and demon lock)

As a conclusion: If you aren't happy with how "simple" the classes are...well, nothing will change greatly. But you should change your main. As someone that played since Lich King I have to argue against your thesis of "the more the better" though. While WoD and that class pruning was sh**, many classes in Legion are complex and awesome to play. WWMonk, Ele Shaman, Frost Mage, Disc Priest, only to name some examples I actually play and enjoy. And for a detailled example: The Windwalker has like 4-5 rotation buttons and some short CDs but using Serenity and not using the same ability twice (through the mastery) is difficult and challenging. And don't get me wrong: I hate to play some of my 110s because I think they're too simple, but there are enough classes in the complex spectrum that are freaking AWESOME to play.
Cheers.

[killwithpwr]

Only thing I can really say about this is "its not all about the numbers". When you think about the action bars, two action bars is 24 buttons. How would you bind 24 buttons comfortably? The reason for having spells in your action bars is because you want to bind them. Of course there are items like hearthstone,potions etc. that you also might want to bind. I have only 17 binds that I'm comfortable using and that is enough for most of the classes. So I would say 24 action bar slots is just enough.

There have only been handful of classes that have had too many spells and that's due to nature of their gameplay. Mw monks and hunters are the first ones that I can think of.

1. Trinket/s
2. Crusader Strike
3. Judgement
4. Blade of Justice
5. Divine Storm
Q. (6). Templars Verdict
E. (7). Wake of Ashes
R. (8). Rebuke
T. (9). Crusade
F. (10). Divine Shield
G. (11). Arcane Torrent
Num1. (12). Divine Steed
Num2. (13). Shield of vengance
Num3. (14). Blessing of Freedom
Num4. (15). Eye for an eye
Num5. (16) . Cleanse
Num6. (17). Hand of reconing
Shift A. (18). Hand of Hindrance
Shift Q. (19). Hammer of Justice
Shift E. (20). Flash Heal
Shift R. (21). Blessing of protection
H. (22). Lay on Hands
Z. (23). Potion
Shift Num5. (24). Greater Blessing of Kings
Shift Num6. (25). Greater Blessing of Wisdom
Shift T. (26). Dps Gear set Macro
Shift Y. (27). Speed Gear set Macro

Thats what i use as Ret on a regular basis. .. Arguably a "low button count" Spec.
Granted, not many people will bind their Greater Blessings and gear sets, but i find that if my blessed healer dies during a fight, blessing a live healer will help my group, and switching sets is.... Very comfortable to me.

Just saying. 17 binds seems to me very low... I have a lock with more binds than my Ret (but i don't play it much, so i dont remember by heart the binds)

All that being said, i don't care how many key binds Blizzard will provide as long as addons can give me the comfort of my usual binds.

Also, the amount of button to press really does not indicate the level of dificulty. Iirc, i had slightly less Binds in WoD and playing Ret in Legion is much easier for me personaly.

[Donald Hellscream]

What use is there in having full actionbars if half the abilities are unnecessary fluff that you might use on one or two encounters.

I'd rather have few abilities that see regular use than dozens that are extremely situational.

[killwithpwr]

What use is there in having full actionbars if half the abilities are unnecessary fluff that you might use on one or two encounters.

I'd rather have few abilities that see regular use than dozens that are extremely situational.

Depending on the content you do of course...
I use all of my ~30 key binds on a daily basis with raids and dungeons alone. i bet the PvP players will use more...
if you do only world content and/or only kill LFR bosses, i'd understand if you only have 5 binds...

[Corroc]

Depending on the content you do of course...
I use all of my ~30 key binds on a daily basis with raids and dungeons alone. i bet the PvP players will use more...
if you do only world content and/or only kill LFR bosses, i'd understand if you only have 5 binds...

I just dont raid with scrubs. I rarely see dps specs doing utility in raids. 1/3 of retribution binds are utility.

[huth]

You have to realise the screenshots from BlizzCon are where nobody wants to spend time on fixing their UI and putting all the random spells on their action bar, they are on a very set time limit.

Quoted for emphasis. Nobody at BlizzCon did a whole lot of setting up their UI beyond bare necessities to save time.

And if there is one function in Legion that really gets on my nerves, it's action bars auto-showing when you get a new ability and all visible ones are full.

[Nerovar]

Suddenly, I see einen norddeutschen Jung' here. (I'm from Kiel, too)
Back to topic:
- in the blizzcon alpha, no ability pruning was seen
- also some classes had 1-2 baseline abilities more (through the old artifact abilities and raid buffs and stuff)
- same goes for talents, I think (from my exp with 9 110classes with all spec artifacts) all but a few had a significant impact on the playstyle, so seeing some of them go into the talents (like f.e. with the elemental shaman) is nice
- they want to change the base UI, but know that most of us use addons anyway. Their focus is simplicity for new players. While that sounds odd, it changes nothing really for you and me. Also I don't see, where 1 bar should be missing on any screenshot or video.
- from my gamescom experience I can say: You have no freaking time to bind all the stuff you would bind on your own character. I played the seat of the triumvirate with my main class (monk) and just threw it all in there, because we wanted to kill L'ura and see the whole dungeon in the time we had
- they already shared their plan for BfA: No Legion-style-class-rework. (but they aren't happy with the survival hunter and demon lock)

As a conclusion: If you aren't happy with how "simple" the classes are...well, nothing will change greatly. But you should change your main. As someone that played since Lich King I have to argue against your thesis of "the more the better" though. While WoD and that class pruning was sh**, many classes in Legion are complex and awesome to play. WWMonk, Ele Shaman, Frost Mage, Disc Priest, only to name some examples I actually play and enjoy. And for a detailled example: The Windwalker has like 4-5 rotation buttons and some short CDs but using Serenity and not using the same ability twice (through the mastery) is difficult and challenging. And don't get me wrong: I hate to play some of my 110s because I think they're too simple, but there are enough classes in the complex spectrum that are freaking AWESOME to play.
Cheers.

I actually main a WW since 6.2.

[gcsmith]

1. Trinket/s
2. Crusader Strike
3. Judgement
4. Blade of Justice
5. Divine Storm
Q. (6). Templars Verdict
E. (7). Wake of Ashes
R. (8). Rebuke
T. (9). Crusade
F. (10). Divine Shield
G. (11). Arcane Torrent
Num1. (12). Divine Steed
Num2. (13). Shield of vengance
Num3. (14). Blessing of Freedom
Num4. (15). Eye for an eye
Num5. (16) . Cleanse
Num6. (17). Hand of reconing
Shift A. (18). Hand of Hindrance
Shift Q. (19). Hammer of Justice
Shift E. (20). Flash Heal
Shift R. (21). Blessing of protection
H. (22). Lay on Hands
Z. (23). Potion
Shift Num5. (24). Greater Blessing of Kings
Shift Num6. (25). Greater Blessing of Wisdom
Shift T. (26). Dps Gear set Macro
Shift Y. (27). Speed Gear set Macro

Thats what i use as Ret on a regular basis. .. Arguably a "low button count" Spec.
Granted, not many people will bind their Greater Blessings and gear sets, but i find that if my blessed healer dies during a fight, blessing a live healer will help my group, and switching sets is.... Very comfortable to me.

Just saying. 17 binds seems to me very low... I have a lock with more binds than my Ret (but i don't play it much, so i dont remember by heart the binds)

All that being said, i don't care how many key binds Blizzard will provide as long as addons can give me the comfort of my usual binds.

Also, the amount of button to press really does not indicate the level of dificulty. Iirc, i had slightly less Binds in WoD and playing Ret in Legion is much easier for me personaly.

I assume you have a mouse with num 1-9 on the side?

[killwithpwr]

I assume you have a mouse with num 1-9 on the side?

Yup... It actually goes up to 12, but my thumb just cannot get to 7-12 efficiently... Thats where i bind useless stuff like professions, toys etc...