Why are people shocked antorus is easier than tos?

[Ericdaroude]

-last raid to feature old difficulty system (10+25) while fully occupying a raider's week (ToC onward with 4 difficulties)
-first and last raid to fully embrace the hardmode system within the same zone difficulty (disregarding sartharion here)
-entirely non-linear progression path (minor exception algalon)
-first raid to feature a hidden endboss (continued in cata and mop)
-most fights were mechanically innovative (FL sucked tho) and difficult
-extremely lore heavy raid with very memorable and grand endbosses
-big variety of scenery, amazing voices and overall simply beatiful and huge
-big sense of reward upon progression (1 hm item drop per boss made them feel very valuable)
-featured few items that incentivize visits even in late toc/icc: comets trail rogues deep into icc, flare of the heavens bis for all casters except shadow priest until reign heroic from anub, mjolnir runestone until late icc for rog/ware,conductive seal shadow priest multitarget bis until icc)

yeah, in my opinion, ulduar is without a doubt the most beatiful and from a raider's perspective satisfying piece of content blizzard ever created. for its era, it is unmatched. they took big risks, some of which backfired, and to be completely honest I fully understand and respect that very casual guilds most likely didnt have the greatest time in there, toc came out before most casual guilds have seen yogg25 normal, let alone any hardmode so it's understandable it might not have been a commercial success for the broad audience.
I, however, will forever remember it as my most enjoyable raiding experience

[shaunika123]

you're right but for all the wrong reasons.

antorus is simply easier than ToS because blizzard is overcorrecting the overtuned insanity that was ToS, by making most of antorus really trivial

seriously the first 10 bosses are like easier than mistress was. (or maybe aggramar is at that level)

[darklogrus]

This expansions raids seem to be all over the place in terms of difficulties, EN was easy, NH seemed 50/50 tuned, Tomb was overtuned and now Ant seems to be tuned just slightly higher then EN. Which makes me wonder how much is this the fault of the current systems in place for LEgion. Did AP, Mythic+, TF/WF cause Blizzard such a hard time balancing the raids...

[Echocho]

WoW's difficulty on the bleeding edge of content has always been a bit schizophrenic. Balance is not and never has been Blizzard's strong suit. Anyway, people declaring something easy because a couple thousand of the best players on the planet killed a boss sooner than they did last raid tier always gives me a chuckle.

They so have a tendency to swing the pendulum way too far in the other direction.
"EN too easy? Well fuck you here's ToV where you'll be lucky to get past the first boss!"
"ToS too hard? Well alright then, here's basically EN 2.0."

They do this with everything. If we think we have too many dailes we get no dailies at all in the next expansion, the world middle ground doesn't exist in their vocabulary.

[cparle87]

Today I was shocked that LFR could really wipe repeatedly at Hasabel.

I guess the Coven of Shivarra and Argus will have a field day soon.

Me too. I was shocked to learn that the portal minibosses have a berserk. If you don't kill them in time they start spam casting 'unstable portal' which does a lot of damage to the entire raid. That's what happens when you as the tank and 2 dps are the only ones who go up.

[ID811717]

Me too. I was shocked to learn that the portal minibosses have a berserk. If you don't kill them in time they start spam casting 'unstable portal' which does a lot of damage to the entire raid. That's what happens when you as the tank and 2 dps are the only ones who go up.

Unstable Portal is not an enrage. It is a spell that should be interrupted.

[cparle87]

Unstable Portal is not an enrage. It is a spell that should be interrupted.

It works like an enrage. You go up there, the mobs do their normal things, you interrupt them. If you take too long killing them, such as in this case not enough people going up, they switch to unstable portal and spam cast it so rapidly it wipes the group because of interrupt cooldowns.

[Cempa]

-last raid to feature old difficulty system (10+25) while fully occupying a raider's week (ToC onward with 4 difficulties)
-first and last raid to fully embrace the hardmode system within the same zone difficulty (disregarding sartharion here)
-entirely non-linear progression path (minor exception algalon)
-first raid to feature a hidden endboss (continued in cata and mop)
-most fights were mechanically innovative (FL sucked tho) and difficult
-extremely lore heavy raid with very memorable and grand endbosses
-big variety of scenery, amazing voices and overall simply beatiful and huge
-big sense of reward upon progression (1 hm item drop per boss made them feel very valuable)
-featured few items that incentivize visits even in late toc/icc: comets trail rogues deep into icc, flare of the heavens bis for all casters except shadow priest until reign heroic from anub, mjolnir runestone until late icc for rog/ware,conductive seal shadow priest multitarget bis until icc)

yeah, in my opinion, ulduar is without a doubt the most beatiful and from a raider's perspective satisfying piece of content blizzard ever created. for its era, it is unmatched. they took big risks, some of which backfired, and to be completely honest I fully understand and respect that very casual guilds most likely didnt have the greatest time in there, toc came out before most casual guilds have seen yogg25 normal, let alone any hardmode so it's understandable it might not have been a commercial success for the broad audience.
I, however, will forever remember it as my most enjoyable raiding experience

Very true, back then I was raiding in a top 20 guild (EU) though we where casual about it (only raided x3 days a week) .. We cleared normal really fast and cleared heroic before the next raid opened by a while and then focused on achievements. Knock, knock, knock on Wood was by far the most I ever spent on any content .. 9 straight hours of wiping but then got it ..

While it was the most enjoyable PvE raiding experience of my life, it actually burned me out and I found my self drifting away from PvE.

[Deleted]

No surprise at all, idiotic overtuning of ToS was so glaring they HAD to:

• admit they fucked up again
• admit they ignored all feedback again
• notice the searing pain down under caused by all things that were shown by world 1st race so whether they did or didn't officially apologise for being limpdicks, everyone and their dog knows it full well
• lash out at the playerbase by tuning Antorus low enough to warrant new complaints and have a "proof" that the players are just impossible to pacify

Myself I like the tuning of NM/HC; once you learn the fights they become rather easy, which is precisely how farm content should be. Also very happy about so many ABT fights being tank/healer swagfests.

[Critical92]

In HC pugs only Coven and Aggramar are problematic. But that is because most hc pugs either don't use bossmods or don't know what that specific boss mechanic does.
On Aggramar the add cc is a huge factor and causes the most wipes.

A few weeks in and you think by now people should know what to do, but the reality is a different one.

[xStevooo]

Extremely easy, just came back after not playing for 6 months - 920 ilvl and went into Antorus Heroic and cleared it all first time.
Didn't check any tactics aside from being told what to do in pods and portals, every other boss just used my initiative from previous raid experience.

920 > 947 ilvl instantly

Not difficult in the slightest

[Hubbl3]

Extremely easy, just came back after not playing for 6 months - 920 ilvl and went into Antorus Heroic and cleared it all first time.
Didn't check any tactics aside from being told what to do in pods and portals, every other boss just used my initiative from previous raid experience.

920 > 947 ilvl instantly

Not difficult in the slightest

Gratz on getting carried. You deserved it.

[Veyne]

Hmm, I don't remember Ulduar's participation being significantly lower than other raids in Wotlk, and I see no reason why it would. Got any numbers?

What I do remember is that they said they messed up their timing, and that releasing ToC so soon after Ulduar was a mistake.

Very few casual players ever saw Ulduar (bear in mind that today's casual players tend to play the game a hell of a lot more than casuals did back then). They were still working on clearing and getting gear from Naxx, OS and EoE. By the time ToC came out, a lot of those players skipped Ulduar entirely. Gear catch-up mechanics from the time made that possible, especially with the new 5 man dropping a metric fuck ton of gear for every spec.

[xStevooo]

Gratz on getting carried. You deserved it.

Thanks, when you put out decent damage and don't screw up tactics it's what happens - hardly difficult.

[Veyne]

Extremely easy, just came back after not playing for 6 months - 920 ilvl and went into Antorus Heroic and cleared it all first time.
Didn't check any tactics aside from being told what to do in pods and portals, every other boss just used my initiative from previous raid experience.

920 > 947 ilvl instantly

Not difficult in the slightest

I mean, if you haven't played for six months, and you were in 920 gear from 6 months ago, when the previous raid that was released only sliiiiightly over 6 months ago gave 915 gear on heroic difficulty, you were probably a pretty decently experienced player that does at-least heroic raid content and plenty of mythic+ stuff (unless you got really, really lucky with RNG). I'm not surprised you would find it easy. Especially if you were in a group with the same players you played with back then.

To be fair, on an individual basis, for a well skilled player, not much of this game is difficult. It's always been the group effort that's made the game difficult. It's when the whole group fucks up that a group fails at the content. And it's usually a combination of simple mistakes. The problem with bad groups is their inability to correct those simple mistakes.

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seriously the first 10 bosses are like easier than mistress was. (or maybe aggramar is at that level)

I mean you're using pretty much the most universally loathed encounter of the instance, that gave most regular groups the most trouble until heroic KJ onward (hell, one of my guilds had more trouble with Mistress THAN KJ). Now if you said the first 10 bosses are easier than Goroth or Haarjatan, that'd be a different story entirely.

[shaunika123]

I mean, if you haven't played for six months, and you were in 920 gear from 6 months ago, when the previous raid that was released only sliiiiightly over 6 months ago gave 915 gear on heroic difficulty, you were probably a pretty decently experienced player that does at-least heroic raid content and plenty of mythic+ stuff (unless you got really, really lucky with RNG). I'm not surprised you would find it easy. Especially if you were in a group with the same players you played with back then.

To be fair, on an individual basis, for a well skilled player, not much of this game is difficult. It's always been the group effort that's made the game difficult. It's when the whole group fucks up that a group fails at the content. And it's usually a combination of simple mistakes. The problem with bad groups is their inability to correct those simple mistakes.

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I mean you're using pretty much the most universally loathed encounter of the instance, that gave most regular groups the most trouble until heroic KJ onward (hell, one of my guilds had more trouble with Mistress THAN KJ). Now if you said the first 10 bosses are easier than Goroth or Haarjatan, that'd be a different story entirely.

but still in the grand scheme of things mistress is still essentially a middle to end boss, who was much MUCH easier than either avatar or KJ

she wasnt that hard, she was like a 100-150 pull boss, when avatar/KJ were over 300-400 pull bosses.

and so far the only boss that came close to that for us was kingaroth, and even that's cos we have a few retarded people that needed 130 pulls to learn to dodge big black balls. the rest of the bosses were like 30-40 pulls at most up until aggramar, who'll probably die in like 150 too based on our progress today.