Trade Unions - Your thoughts?

[spdr]

I'm part of a trade union and it's awesome. You don't have someone breathing down your neck threatening to fire you if you don't weld faster. And a fast weld is a shitty weld. The only ways you can get fired are safety violation and attendance, which happens more than you'd think. It's one of the best paying jobs in the area. I have health benefits. The company contributes to my 401k and my HSA account every year.

I agree with this first and last part. But I worked in a shop with a guy that would breath down our necks. He didn't want me using squares to make fitups, because he trusted the bubble and it's faster. It's crazy how many welds went out of there with bad tie-ins on the roots but because they're just low pressure chillwater lines it doesn't matter. No xray and no visual inspections.

[carny2k]

without trade unions there will be no standard. an employer will always want to pay workers less its inevitable.

[Ghostpanther]

without trade unions there will be no standard. an employer will always want to pay workers less its inevitable.

Not necessarily. This is the normal Union propaganda they put out. My last job I worked at, for close to 30 years, I did not belong to a Union and I was paid very well. Better than most other places in this area. I agree in some cases, where the employees are being taken advantage of ( which use to be common many years ago ) then a Union can be a good tool.

[Annamarine]

Fine if it’s optional but mostly what a union does is protect the inept and stupid and the people who would succeed anyways get hurt and brought down to their level.

[JohnBrown1917]

Not necessarily. This is the normal Union propaganda they put out. My last job I worked at, for close to 30 years, I did not belong to a Union and I was paid very well. Better than most other places in this area. I agree in some cases, where the employees are being taken advantage of ( which use to be common many years ago ) then a Union can be a good tool.

Nice anecdote.

[Ghostpanther]

Nice anecdote.

It was the same for the 4000 people who worked there. In Marysville Ohio, Honda operates a large plant which has no union. Several thousands workers. The auto workers union here has tried to set one up there and have lost every time because the workers vote no. Their reasons? Why would they need a union when the company treats them well anyway?

[cuafpr]

they were needed once now, not so much. Most of the ones around now are nothing more than power / money hungry groups. Forced membership ones should be illegal, if they are good enough people will join of their on free will. Heck i turned down a job over one cause 30% of my check was to go to them, for the first several years. nope sorry not worth it, and i couldn't work the job without being a member.

[Daedius]

Take a look at countries like China where they pretty much lack worker unions... capitalists take advantage of such countries with their sweatshops.

[Underverse]

For some people they are necessary, for some they are not. Companies vary by how they treat their employees. There's an interesting podcast that details a case study of what can and does happen - in some cases - when people don't unionize: link

In cases like these, illegal immigrants expand local economies but, because they're illegal, refuse to unionize, and because they're willing to work as almost slave labor, existing workers lose many of their benefits or are completely displaced from their jobs. Economic benefits are therefore taken away from the existing low-class workers and distributed to illegal migrants (who still have a shit life by American standards) and higher socioeconomic classes. Though mostly to the company, of course. So I would say that unions have their place where state or federal laws don't protect workers; but that's going to vary by location.

[Captain N]

I am a Union member and I wouldn't have it any other way. There is no way I could bargain for my current wages on my own, nor would I be privy to the benefits being a union member has (affordable family healthcare, the ability to set my own schedule, easy access to days off to take care of family affairs/illnesses). Are there drawbacks? Sure there are, but the pros far outweigh the cons.

The best part about Unions is watching people who demand people have a certain skill set to have a good paying job and then complain about union wages for that particular skill. You guys sabotage everyone and don't even realize it. We have a motto "Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap. Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled". A little consistency from your cheap asses would be appreciated.

[Narveid]

I'm Norwegian. They're pretty important here.

[Nihilist74]

I only worked at one place that was union. A Kroger grocery store. It seemed like you got a better deal with the union than without. Idealistically, i am for unions but i don't really have enough of a background in working for them to say. They seem to work well in the major European countries?

[Aitch]

Most decent corporations will support initiatives to at least try and nurture the communities in which they operate.

It takes a union to organize the selfish will of individuals into an army, kill the delicate flow of capital within a community, and turn it into a ghost town.

[JohnBrown1917]

Most decent corporations will support initiatives to at least try and nurture the communities in which they operate.

It takes a union to organize the selfish will of individuals into an army, kill the delicate flow of capital within a community, and turn it into a ghost towns.

Must be fun to be so naive to think most corporations are half-way decent.

[McFuu]

Some unions are useful, some are useless. Depends on the industry.

Unions are great if you want to get by on just working, but not actually contributing. If you go to work and try to make the company more money a Union isn't for you because you'll be looked upon exactly the same as every other worker, even if those other workers are smoking crack in the bathroom and barely lucking out and not causing an accident.

[Rend Blackhand]

Complete scam. All they do is strike, especially in things like transport and hold the general public hostage so they can have nicer pay and pensions. All those Union membership fees can buy the Union bosses nicer cars too.

[Captain N]

Some unions are useful, some are useless. Depends on the industry.

Unions are great if you want to get by on just working, but not actually contributing. If you go to work and try to make the company more money a Union isn't for you because you'll be looked upon exactly the same as every other worker, even if those other workers are smoking crack in the bathroom and barely lucking out and not causing an accident.

What a load of nonsense. If you work and make the company more money they're more likely to overlook an incident you're at fault for than someone who is a lazy shithead and just contributing as you put it. Contrary to the myth about how unions are just supporting lazy people we can actually be fired for the same reasons a non-union employee can. The difference is we actually get an arbitration hearing between us, the union, and the Company before the hammer drops. That way good employees don't end up unjustly fired by a a gung-ho manager or that At-Will Employment garbage.

As for the drug analysis -- you're aware that the Pipefitters, IBEW, UTU, and BLET Unions all have a drug policy in line with the companies they work with and its members are subjected to random drug tests no less than six times a year and any violation of said drug policies immediately has the employee removed from service with their respective Company and placed in a rehabilitation program for no less than six months. After that there is an arbitration hearing between the union, the company, the employee, and a representative of the rehabilitation clinic to decide whether the employee needs further rehab or is permitted to return to work. You know...because drug issues are common and many unions want to help their members get better instead of casting them out as delinquents.

[Paperfox]

If a union is needed in a certain workplace, then that says some really bad things about the management.

Unions are another layer of management on the worker that can harass that guy and make him/her pay for it.

A lot of unions have position statements on many things and go into the politics. This is the part that really bugs me, the union should focus on the employer and the workers, and if something doesn't have an impact on that then they are squandering their members' fees. When Tienanmen Square was current, many unions had position statements on it.

Unions can keep people employed who should be working in another sector.

[McFuu]

What a load of nonsense. If you work and make the company more money they're more likely to overlook an incident you're at fault for than someone who is a lazy shithead and just contributing as you put it. Contrary to the myth about how unions are just supporting lazy people we can actually be fired for the same reasons a non-union employee can. The difference is we actually get an arbitration hearing between us, the union, and the Company before the hammer drops. That way good employees don't end up unjustly fired by a a gung-ho manager or that At-Will Employment garbage.

As for the drug analysis -- you're aware that the Pipefitters, IBEW, UTU, and BLET Unions all have a drug policy in line with the companies they work with and its members are subjected to random drug tests no less than six times a year and any violation of said drug policies immediately has the employee removed from service with their respective Company and placed in a rehabilitation program for no less than six months. After that there is an arbitration hearing between the union, the company, the employee, and a representative of the rehabilitation clinic to decide whether the employee needs further rehab or is permitted to return to work. You know...because drug issues are common and many unions want to help their members get better instead of casting them out as delinquents.

You're missing the point. If I'm a better worker than everyone else, the union does nothing for me. "If you cause an incident" why would you be causing incidents if you are a good worker...

Like I said in my first sentence, not all unions are created equal. I've seen absolute shit unions and I've seen somewhat fair unions. But the industry and company will largely decide if a union is even necessary.

[Aitch]

Must be fun to be so naive to think most corporations are half-way decent.

It must be great to live in a world so simple, where your enemies are so easy to identify by anything that doesn’t have a face.

No company will maliciously destroy a community. It will close a plant for no reason other than it no longer makes fiscal sense to operate.

Unions on the other hand will actively encourage workers to strike with the promise of more money. Pandering to the greed of individuals.