[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

Phase 1 was pretty much the whole EU laughing at our strong and stable government and getting everything they wanted from us.

Laughing is the wrong word. I think they were more annoyed than anything else. They didn't ask for it, and the other side simply wasn't prepared at all.

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just a weird idea of mine, but how possible is it May would be somewhat happy to fail ?
she can be blunt about the phase 1 results as they were the best deal possible and if Tories cannot back it, phase 2 negotiations will become nonexistent. it is Brexit hard and cold then or exit from Brexit; a very bold gamble.

Well, we know that she is a remainer at heart.

[ranzino]

...
Well, we know that she is a remainer at heart.

Well, she can sink the HMS "Brexit" herself just by way of negotiations in Brussels. Unless Tories find somebody else to stand in they have to take what she directs and agrees. Tempting, isnt it ?
And there is a deathline when UK cannot replace her to reach for a better deal. Do it now or gamble and take whatever a new goverment can achieve in summer.

[draykorinee]

Laughing is the wrong word. I think they were more annoyed than anything else. They didn't ask for it, and the other side simply wasn't prepared at all.

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Well, we know that she is a remainer at heart.

I don't mean the politicians I mean the people. The UK is a joke right now.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Well this thread has bee a laugh but I've got better places to troll.
Just so you know everything I've said I just copy pasted out of a leave forum And jiggled it about so it fit. Except the personal attacks I came up with those.

I've found it very entertaining that I can just repeat crap and you guys still can't form an argument against it without getting angry.

Byebye

Nope, I don't buy this.

Looking at your post history e.g.,

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...5#post47320525

You're just an idiot.

And, again, this is the reason why the referendum should never have been called in the first place. Assuming you are actually of voting age, people like you shouldn't be allowed to vote. You should just be dumped in a pit somewhere, without internet access, to rot.

[Slant]

I don't mean the politicians I mean the people. The UK is a joke right now.

Now you're being unfair. Half of them didn't ask for this either. And the other half have been thoroughly misled. If you don't have a natural distrust of media, it is easy to just believe what they tell you. Especially since the media really doesn't make a decent effort at educating about the news rather than telling people what they want to hear for higher ratings.

The media has to be blamed a lot for this. Remember the mantra "Don't feed the troll"? The media didn't observe it in Trump's case and in the case of Brexit. And here we are, witnessing the result of not just feeding the troll but literally stuffing him with food until he's about to burst.

[dribbles]

I don't mean the politicians I mean the people. The UK is a joke right now.

You know you could just leave? Easyjet have a sale on right now - so cheap I'd stump up a one way ticket for you to a place of my choice. Only a fool would live in a country they thought was a joke. Meanwhile, in spite of Brexit, construction workers coming from the EU to the UK are up 8% over the last 12 months. They obviously feel the UK is less of a joke than the EU country they left.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89...ion-numbers-uk

Britain is booming thanks to the result of the Brexit referendum and as forbes recognises, the No 1 place on the planet to do business in 2018, Germany ranked 13th and France ranked 22nd just for comparison - who is the joke on now then?

https://www.forbes.com/best-countries-for-business/list/#tabverall

Now you're being unfair. Half of them didn't ask for this either. And the other half have been thoroughly misled. If you don't have a natural distrust of media, it is easy to just believe what they tell you. Especially since the media really doesn't make a decent effort at educating about the news rather than telling people what they want to hear for higher ratings.

The media has to be blamed a lot for this. Remember the mantra "Don't feed the troll"? The media didn't observe it in Trump's case and in the case of Brexit. And here we are, witnessing the result of not just feeding the troll but literally stuffing him with food until he's about to burst.

But there are 17 million who voted to leave and in your book all are trolls? I don't think so. Those 17 million know exactly why they voted for Brexit. Best summed up by this cartoon.

[Kallisto]

But there are 17 million who voted to leave and in your book all are trolls? I don't think so. Those 17 million know exactly why they voted for Brexit. Best summed up by this cartoon.

That 17 million are easily swayed by a propaganda cartoon piece?

[dribbles]

That 17 million are easily swayed by a propaganda cartoon piece?

Interesting you pick on the cartoon rather than the other points I raised. But no 17 million are not swayed by one picture, that cartoon is the effect not the cause. Are you seriously suggesting only 17 million can relate and agree with that cartoon? I'd put it at hundreds of millions across the EU, if you want a link country by country wanna bet I can't do it?

Thing is though, only one country - the country with the premier form of democracy has had the nerve to vote on the issue. Those hundred of millions who feel as that cartoon depicts will never get the chance to express their feelings in the undemocratic EU.

Hundreds of millions unrepresented by their politicians - what a tragedy and some call that progress.

[Deleted]

That 17 million are easily swayed by a propaganda cartoon piece?

You know what's funny. I have never seen a Remoaner or any EUphile counter the point that the EU hampers growth. I simply have not seen that argument ever put forth.

[Slant]

But there are 17 million who voted to leave and in your book all are trolls? I don't think so. Those 17 million know exactly why they voted for Brexit. Best summed up by this cartoon.

That's not what I said or implied.

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You know what's funny. I have never seen a Remoaner or any EUphile counter the point that the EU hampers growth. I simply have not seen that argument ever put forth.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...-growth-annual


We tend to not point out the obvious, but apparently we need to. The sky is blue, water is wet and the EU does not hamper growth. Anything else you'd like to have pointed out?

[Deleted]

Nope, I don't buy this.

Looking at your post history e.g.,

You're just an idiot.

And, again, this is the reason why the referendum should never have been called in the first place. Assuming you are actually of voting age, people like you shouldn't be allowed to vote. You should just be dumped in a pit somewhere, without internet access, to rot.

i think you spent way to much time feeding a troll there :/. wasting your time is kinda what they want.

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That's not what I said or implied.

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We tend to not point out the obvious, but apparently we need to. The sky is blue, water is wet and the EU does not hamper growth. Anything else you'd like to have pointed out?

that graph actually looks like it does. it looks like up till the 1970's some time they were growing slowly on average. and have been roughly level since then :/

[Deleted]

Nope, I don't buy this.

Looking at your post history e.g.,

You're just an idiot.

And, again, this is the reason why the referendum should never have been called in the first place. Assuming you are actually of voting age, people like you shouldn't be allowed to vote. You should just be dumped in a pit somewhere, without internet access, to rot.

i think you spent way to much time feeding a troll there :/. wasting your time is kinda what they want.

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That's not what I said or implied.

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We tend to not point out the obvious, but apparently we need to. The sky is blue, water is wet and the EU does not hamper growth. Anything else you'd like to have pointed out?

that graph actually looks like it does. it looks like up till the 1970's some time they were growing slowly on average. and have been roughly level since then :/

Edit. if you switch the graph to show the mean you can see pre 1970 the peaks were higher and the troughs lower, post 1970 the troughs were deep and the peaks lower, doesn't mean that's the EU's fault though.
1970 did see alot of change outside joining the EU namely the UK switching from a secondary industry economy to a tertiary industry. economy

[Slant]

that graph actually looks like it does. it looks like up till the 1970's some time they were growing slowly on average. and have been roughly level since then :/

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...-growth-annual


Just as a proof sample, the US chart is also showing a downwards trend. You will notice that in recent decades, the graph isn't spiking as much. I assume that is due to globalisation and markets homogenizing and thus creating a sort of volatility buffer at the cost of growth in long terms. We'll see where it goes, but as you can clearly see, the 2008 crisis went around the globe and I bet that contributed to the downward trend.

However, and this is the point I'm making. That 2008 crisis originated in the US housing and reinsurance market. There's not a thing the EU could have done to prevent that or anything the EU had at its disposal to defend itself against the effects. The EU now has better tools, but it's the British finance market that infested the EU's core market with the American crisis.

A diabolus advocati might even go as far as saying it's not the EU that's hampering growth, it's the UK and its vulnerability in London being such a prominent financial centre. But I don't want to be nitpicky and just let the point stand that claiming the EU is hampering growth is an outright lie.

[Deleted]

*snip

that graph actually looks like it does. it looks like up till the 1970's some time they were growing slowly on average. and have been roughly level since then :/

if you switch the graph to show the mean you can see pre 1970 the peaks were higher and the troughs lower, post 1970 the troughs were deep and the peaks lower, doesn't mean that's the EU's fault though.
1970 did see alot of change outside joining the EU namely the UK switching from a secondary industry economy to a tertiary industry. economy

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I did a bunch more digging out of curiosity, according to that growth data basically since the 1974 economic crash Britain has struggled to reach the growth maxims of pre 1970, it looks like there barley able to get stable again before the next economic recession, being hit hard in 1974, 1981, 1992 (black Wednesday?) and ofc 2009.

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if you limit the graph to 1956 to 1974 and switch it to trend it shows a growth from 2 to 4 as the trend, if you go from 1975 to 2017 to shows a slight trend downwards of 2.2 to 2.

this shows that for whatever reason UK growth has been shrinking on average very slowly since the 1974 recession.

[Slant]

this shows that for whatever reason UK growth has been shrinking on average very slowly since the 1974 recession.

So has the US GDP growth. I have posted it before, but you deleted your post and I can't be arsed to pull up the same graph. So this isn't really due to the EU, this is a global trend. Things like the 1980s dip and the 2008 dip, that undoubtedly contribute to the downward trend, haven't been things that the EU had any way of preventing, one being Thatcher tanking UK economy and the other that 2008 crisis originating in the US housing/reinsurance market.

Don't be offended, but cherry picking the time frames isn't really going to help you much in this. Unless you can explain how the US downward trend is somehow due to the EU.

[Masark]

this shows that for whatever reason UK growth has been shrinking on average very slowly since the 1974 recession.

Which rather coincides with when neoliberalism (Thatcher, followed by Nu Labour) took over.

[Lanrefni]

So,any one else think at this point that Scotland,Wales,and Northern Ireland need to vote to eject England from the United Kingdom,that way they get to remain in the EU and England gets to go it's own merry way into the gutter of history?

[Vankrys]

So,any one else think at this point that Scotland,Wales,and Northern Ireland need to vote to eject England from the United Kingdom,that way they get to remain in the EU and England gets to go it's own merry way into the gutter of history?

wales voted leave though. Plus that would make the problem of EU-england border such as seen in northern ireland 10 times worse.

[Floopa]

i think at this point the British public are finally behind Brexit. the latest yougov polling shows a clear majority in favour of Britain leaving. hopefully this means any remoaner nonsense gets squashed. interestingly though, every european country surveyed by yougov (except france/Britain) want Britain to stay in the eu... i wonder why...

what i find most hilarious is how europe are trying to dictate what deal we get, when Britain's own red lines lead us down the path of a no deal with the eu, which imo is for the best. Brexit was the best thing to happen to our great country and next March will hopefully be a celebrated national holiday.

[Vankrys]

i think at this point the British public are finally behind Brexit. the latest yougov polling shows a clear majority in favour of Britain leaving. hopefully this means any remoaner nonsense gets squashed. interestingly though, every european country surveyed by yougov (except france/Britain) want Britain to stay in the eu... i wonder why...

you mean that one


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/27...ublic-still-t/


Maybe i'm not reading this right, but the trend seems to show that opinion of the majority has shifted from being right to leave before September 2017 to wrong to leave after.

PS if you have more recent poll, please share with us, it's always interesting to analyse polls.