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  1. #341
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    ^^ Clueless player is clueless^^
    ^^ Speshul snowflake is speshul ^^
    Too bad nobody gives a shit about how speshul you feel

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    No, the problem is definitely raider.io abusing Blizzard's leaderboard system to do something it wasn't intended for, and then the community latching on to it for no good reason when there was a perfectly decent way to work it out anyway.
    What raider.io does isn't malicious inherently. Blizzard needs to show more than the top X runs or at LEAST show all your runs on your armory page so that Raider.io can actually pull real data instead of just "whatever the top times are" Hopefully Blizzard notices this and adjusts their shit in bfa.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    No, the problem is definitely raider.io abusing Blizzard's leaderboard system to do something it wasn't intended for, and then the community latching on to it for no good reason when there was a perfectly decent way to work it out anyway.
    No, the 'problem' is definitely Blizzard not providing a decent API, something other games have no problem doing. And can you please let us in on the 'perfectly decent way to work it out'? I'm sure everyone will 'latch on to it', if real.

  4. #344
    Deleted
    We did a +21 Upper Kara 2-chest and didn't even get on the leaderboards for our server, I never even did more than a +16 before. It's getting pretty hard to bump up your M+ score nowadays, especially in weeks like these

    2 Weeks ago I even got points for a +7 EoA.
    Last edited by mmoc112630d291; 2018-01-02 at 09:45 AM.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    What raider.io does isn't malicious inherently. Blizzard needs to show more than the top X runs or at LEAST show all your runs on your armory page so that Raider.io can actually pull real data instead of just "whatever the top times are" Hopefully Blizzard notices this and adjusts their shit in bfa.
    It may not be malicious, but it's definitely stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    No, the 'problem' is definitely Blizzard not providing a decent API, something other games have no problem doing. And can you please let us in on the 'perfectly decent way to work it out'? I'm sure everyone will 'latch on to it', if real.
    Their API is doing exactly what they intended it to do. It isn't bad in any way. The only reason you find it bad is because you want it to do something it doesn't do.

    Working out if someone is capable of doing a M+ can be done by inspecting them in-game or using the old armory, where their max keystones are listed in statistics.

  6. #346
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    It may not be malicious, but it's definitely stupid.

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    Their API is doing exactly what they intended it to do. It isn't bad in any way. The only reason you find it bad is because you want it to do something it doesn't do.

    Working out if someone is capable of doing a M+ can be done by inspecting them in-game or using the old armory, where their max keystones are listed in statistics.
    Shieeeeet. I was really hoping your previous note was sarcasm ... but it seems it wasn't and you're serious. Mind blown.

  7. #347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by keedorin View Post
    I just came back from a break. There was nothing wrong with LFG for M+ without raider.io. It was so easy to do a 15+ back then. Now, I have to pad my m+ "score" just so that I can get into groups. It's funny how people just ignore and kind of other achievements and your ilvl when it comes to 15+....
    So what other achievements do you mean? Keymaster from people who got carried once? Keymaster from 12 months and three dungeon changes before? Mythic Raiding achievements and then watching the player die to random shit because he didn't know that it will kill him? There is still nothing wrong with LFG, there are still plenty learning groups or groups without score. Apply to them, not to the 2,7k+ score group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    No, the problem is definitely raider.io abusing Blizzard's leaderboard system to do something it wasn't intended for, and then the community latching on to it for no good reason when there was a perfectly decent way to work it out anyway.
    What perfectly decent way? I don´t look at your score, I look at highest dungeon completed I am looking for and overall 15+ in time. If you ran 200 Upper Kara, while I am looking for upper kara you are welcome, even if your score is 300 in total.

    After a year I expect people to know the dungeon. I don't want to explain them basic things, because you ignore them up to +15, but 5 levels later it is a oneshot. I want you to know these things after all that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    We did a +21 Upper Kara 2-chest and didn't even get on the leaderboards for our server, I never even did more than a +16 before. It's getting pretty hard to bump up your M+ score nowadays, especially in weeks like these

    2 Weeks ago I even got points for a +7 EoA.
    You sure? Upper +2 is less than 28 minutes. On Ravencrest Upper 21 in 27:59 right now is rank 73. So no Problem to get ranked. And this in with one of the easiest affixes and a lot of people pushing because of holidays.
    Last edited by mmoc9a579d0b1a; 2018-01-02 at 10:35 AM.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Working out if someone is capable of doing a M+ can be done by inspecting them in-game or using the old armory, where their max keystones are listed in statistics.
    How do I access the old armory?

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsharna View Post
    Shieeeeet. I was really hoping your previous note was sarcasm ... but it seems it wasn't and you're serious. Mind blown.
    How constructive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vluffyvlaush View Post
    What perfectly decent way? I don´t look at your score, I look at highest dungeon completed I am looking for and overall 15+ in time. If you ran 200 Upper Kara, while I am looking for upper kara you are welcome, even if your score is 300 in total.

    After a year I expect people to know the dungeon. I don't want to explain them basic things, because you ignore them up to +15, but 5 levels later it is a oneshot. I want you to know these things after all that time.
    Doing what you do is the perfectly decent way. The problem is 99% of PuG's don't do that. They look at the overall M+ score, and your individual score doesn't matter to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    How do I access the old armory?
    Great question. Looks like it got taken down. Use the in-game then.

  10. #350
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    How constructive.

    Great question. Looks like it got taken down. Use the in-game then.
    So you suggest people do something that is not available and toss that "constructive" "argument" my way? Serious or trolling hard?
    You also suggest people go back to "inspecting" applicants in game for whatever content they want to run. Did you already drive your bike on wooden wheels, or are you just planning to do that?

    You have completely 0 clue what "99% of pugs" do or don't, because you can't have that information. So you're jumping on the hate wagon without offering anything constructive instead. Way to troll ... errr go.
    Last edited by mmoc806dd679c9; 2018-01-02 at 10:59 AM.

  11. #351
    M+ score is not a measure of a players skill.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsharna View Post
    So you suggest people do something that is not available and toss that "constructive" "argument" my way? Serious or trolling hard?
    You also suggest people go back to "inspecting" applicants in game for whatever content they want to run. Did you already drive your bike on wooden wheels, or are you just planning to do that?

    You have completely 0 clue what "99% of pugs" do or don't, because you can't have that information. So you're jumping on the hate wagon without offering anything constructive instead. Way to troll ... errr go.
    Inspecting players to find their M+ information is available in the group finder. It's not that difficult.

    Also, calling someone else a troll with that amount of flamebait in your post is quite precious, I must say.

  13. #353
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RennacUnF View Post
    M+ score is not a measure of a players skill.
    No, but passing a certain point it shows you the experience. And experience is worth a lot in mythic+. Even if it is a timed run, the knowledge when to DPS and when to survive is huge. Going for a high key tyrannical on bosses with unavoidable AoE? Get that Prydaz and Avoidance gear, sacrifice damage to survive will kill the boss. People with a higher score and therefore running higher keys know, when they will die, because the usually did it already.

    We did keys across all patches, where people just got one shotted on bosses like the second in EoA or multiple times in HoV. Seeing a mage die to the last CoS boss without using block is so sad. Seeing 3 DPS die to Xavius 50% health AoE without using personals is something i see on my alts +15 keys and people without high score (aka experience). I think its funny, that the "chest keys" are always the hardest, because people lack experience. Once you add +3/+4 to the weekly chest level, people stop dieing to avoidable shit, because they are used to dodge. Run a +15 and a +18 (and above) Nelt and look at damage taken to avalanche. The low key wins. A lot of people i met there didn't even know that you can dodge the falling rocks.

    I don't think people with higher score are more skilled, I notice that they die less. And since the keys in pugs are win or fail, I want that experienced players. If I don't beat the timer due to less skilled low DPS, I am fine. But I will complete it. Yesterday we depleted 20 coen and 19 coen. One to a fail pull and one to simply not having the DPS. But it were fun runs in friendly groups. Even after the fail pull (netting us 9 deaths…) there was no flaming or toxic behavior. The people know something like that can happen.

    I like that, I take experience over skill all the time.

  14. #354
    ahhh it seems ilvl wasnt enough
    GS has now been revived in terms of M+ score
    or would that technically be the equivalent of "lfm norm argus need aotc checking armory"

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by RennacUnF View Post
    M+ score is not a measure of a players skill.
    But it's a way to stack the odds in favor of your group. When the reward depends on lowering the time involved in the clear, it is only in your favor to try and be selective, especially when you only get one shot at the key or it will downgrade. In the general case, you will find more success with a 2500 player than a 1500 player. There will always be outliers of-course, but a hypothetical group of a hundred 1500 players that queue only among themselves will not clear as high keys or clear them as fast as a group of a hundred 2500 players. It's the same in pvp with MMR, yes a 1500 3s team could win a match against 2500s players by fluke or carelessness, but over the long haul the 2500 team would mop the floor with the 1500 team.

  16. #356
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    ahhh it seems ilvl wasnt enough
    GS has now been revived in terms of M+ score
    or would that technically be the equivalent of "lfm norm argus need aotc checking armory"
    That is a fast Legendary/AP farm group. If you have aotc and the required item level you apply to those groups for a fast run without wipes.

    If don't have aotc and only 930 item level you apply to those groups. There are plenty of it. Never had trouble finding those. Fun fact is, if you don't have the required item level the group finder won't show those groups to you.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Vluffyvlaush View Post
    That is a fast Legendary/AP farm group. If you have aotc and the required item level you apply to those groups for a fast run without wipes.

    If don't have aotc and only 930 item level you apply to those groups. There are plenty of it. Never had trouble finding those. Fun fact is, if you don't have the required item level the group finder won't show those groups to you.
    thats only if those groups select that ilvl which doesnt happen alot because you get people looking for carries

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valrysha View Post
    I don't expect to get into groups, but this system could be fixed by simply making the API track more than the top 100 for a dungeon per realm.

    I have a low score. I do my +15s every week, usually in time, but sometimes we're not paying attention, it's not too hard at the end of the day.

    Why is my score low then? Simply because I do them with Guildies, and not on Reset day. Unluckily for me, I play on one of the highest pop servers in the game, and this means the top 100 for every dungeon is clogged up within the first day or two. So, no score for me.

    Ripperino.
    My understanding is they want to expand it, but are limited by what information Blizz makes available. I agree this change would make it better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RennacUnF View Post
    M+ score is not a measure of a players skill.
    My friends who have higher scores than me also run more high keys than me, so there does seem to be some correlation between score and experience.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    or would that technically be the equivalent of "lfm norm argus need aotc checking armory"
    Make a 2/3/25 raid of overgeared AOTC characters and blast the place in minimal time. These runs are a lot more fun than regular normal/heroic pugs.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Their API is doing exactly what they intended it to do. It isn't bad in any way. The only reason you find it bad is because you want it to do something it doesn't doTheir API is doing exactly what they intended it to do. It isn't bad in any way. The only reason you find it bad is because you want it to do something it doesn't do
    So you're saying it does what it does. Of course it does what it does. And it is useless for supporting this use case. Other games have understood the importance of providing decent access to match history. All people here, well nearly all, seem to understand it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Working out if someone is capable of doing a M+ can be done by inspecting them in-game or using the old armory, where their max keystones are listed in statistics.
    What is inspecting going to tell me? 'CoS +15', please come to Dala fountain and let me inspect your gearsets and talent choices'?
    Are you seriously suggesting I go and armory check statistics for every applicant for running a 15? Does the 'modern' armory even have statistics?

    Oh well. You do that. I'll just take the partial info I get through Raider.io, and get on with it. Sure, I might miss on the few epic dungeneers that only run keys on mondays with only people from the highest populated realms, so be it. There's no shortage of people in the queue that did somehow manage to have their runs registered.

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