Is it cheap to want to split or pay each for themselves on dates?

[pateuvasiliu]

I'm not going ad hominem. Your every post is "beta, money, beta, paying for company, beta, money". There are no arguments in your posts.

I explained very slowly why a man paying for a woman to spend time with him reeks of a lack of self confidence and respect, especially considering other dudes have banged her without paying anything. If you choose to ignore my arguments and pretend they don't exist, that's on you.

Also it's a topic about money and sex, so expecting me to go on a roll about different things is moronic.

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You haven't really though your post through, did you? If I'm a gold digger for wanting a man of similar status as me, what does that make the poor men who want to date someone with higher status than them?



I don't think they owe me anything. I set a standard I expect men to to reach to be worth considering dating, doing so in regards to money is not much different than doing so in regards to looks or personality. They're free to not want to date me if they can't pass my bar set.

If they have to pay for you, they aren't of similar status. They are below. Which is why they need to pay.

[Freighter]

If they have to pay for you, they aren't of similar status. They are below. Which is why they need to pay.

I don't know how you can even think that.

[pateuvasiliu]

I don't know how you can even think that.

It's very easy, if a man isn't worth a woman's time without paying, they aren't equal.

I don't know how you can NOT think that.

[Freighter]

It's very easy, if a man isn't worth a woman's time without paying, they aren't equal.

I don't know how you can NOT think that.

They're not paying for my time. They're paying for a meal to show that they can exceed the very low bar of not being poor or being a cheapskate. It's not like it's a $300 meal. It's a meal at a hawker centre. If you can't pay or won't pay for that you're poor or a cheapskate.

[Antiganon]

If you invite (i.e. "Hey, do you want to go to XYZ with me?"), you should be prepared to pay.

If you are setting up a group outing (i.e. "Hey, we should all go to XYZ!"), everyone should be expected to pay for themselves.

As with most things, this causes issues because people hold expectations that they don't tell other people about.

[pseudoJ]

What does not afford to survive have to do with paying on dates? xD

I will just leave this here

Yes, it's cheap. Can also make some think you are poor. xD

You could be friends. Your approach to judging people by their wealth is pretty similar. Take this however you want -- it's not based just on this thread alone.

[pateuvasiliu]

They're not paying for my time. They're paying for a meal to show that they can exceed the very low bar of not being poor or being a cheapskate. It's not like it's a $300 meal. It's a meal at a hawker centre. If you can't pay or won't pay for that you're poor or a cheapskate.

Why don't you pay for the man?

[Deleted]

Gender equality, both parties pays.

[Freighter]

Why don't you pay for the man?

What makes you think I don't?

[Airlick]

I explained very slowly why a man paying for a woman to spend time with him reeks of a lack of self confidence and respect, especially considering other dudes have banged her without paying anything. If you choose to ignore my arguments and pretend they don't exist, that's on you.

Also it's a topic about money and sex, so expecting me to go on a roll about different things is moronic.

And I've been saying paying the bill doesn't mean I'm paying for her company or that I'm insecure. It's sending a message that money doesn't concern me at all when I'm meeting with her and that I want the waiter go away ASAP and let me get back to her, and the fastest way to do that is just pressing the card. If she feels like giving me some part of the money back afterwards, I'll accept, but I won't press it. If she offers to pay at the next venue we stop by, I'll accept. It's also a way of letting her feel appreciated.

If a girl invites you to her house for a dinner, is she paying you for your time? No, because it's all about mutuality and she wants you to feel appreciated in return. You're clearly very selfish or met a lot of selfish women if you don't understand that.

I guess I'm just too much of a beta to understand that dating is just about money and sex, not about trivial matters like emotions and enjoyment.

Let's just agree to disagree here, since we're clearly not going to convince each other.

[pateuvasiliu]

What makes you think I don't?

Your words. You seem to expect that the man should pay. Why's that?

[mbg]

Never pay for anyone on a date unless they are your significant other. If you are trying to get to know each other, NEVER buy them anything. If they get angry or wierd about it move on. Think of it this way, would you buy food and drinks for someone you just met?

[pateuvasiliu]

And I've been saying paying the bill doesn't mean I'm paying for her company or that I'm insecure. It's sending a message that money doesn't concern me at all when I'm meeting with her and that I want the waiter go away ASAP and let me get back to her, and the fastest way to do that is just pressing the card. If she feels like giving me some part of the money back afterwards, I'll accept, but I won't press it. If she offers to pay at the next venue we stop by, I'll accept. It's also a way of letting her feel appreciated.

If a girl invites you to her house for a dinner, is she paying you for your time? No, because it's all about mutuality and she wants you to feel appreciated in return. You're clearly very selfish or met a lot of selfish women if you don't understand that.

I guess I'm just too much of a beta to understand that dating is just about money and sex, not about trivial matters like emotions and enjoyment.

Let's just agree to disagree here, since we're clearly not going to convince each other.

You don't call someone over for dinner on first date, so moot argument.

The first paragraph sounds like a load of crap. You pay because you're afraid of what will happen if you don't. I'm not. I would never date a woman that's so sexist she expects me to pay. I will if I feel like it, but anyone who thinks they're entitled to being treated because they have a vagina is just a child and I don't date kids.

[SilverWolf26]

And I've been saying paying the bill doesn't mean I'm paying for her company or that I'm insecure. It's sending a message that money doesn't concern me at all when I'm meeting with her and that I want the waiter go away ASAP and let me get back to her, and the fastest way to do that is just pressing the card. If she feels like giving me some part of the money back afterwards, I'll accept, but I won't press it. If she offers to pay at the next venue we stop by, I'll accept. It's also a way of letting her feel appreciated.

If a girl invites you to her house for a dinner, is she paying you for your time? No, because it's all about mutuality and she wants you to feel appreciated in return. You're clearly very selfish or met a lot of selfish women if you don't understand that.

I guess I'm just too much of a beta to understand that dating is just about money and sex, not about trivial matters like emotions and enjoyment.

Let's just agree to disagree here, since we're clearly not going to convince each other.

I don't see beta here. I see a rational, thinking, intelligent individual with a lucky girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse.

It's guys that think they have to be alphas or edgelords or whatever that make it bad for other guys. Nice guys do win; and I don't mean guys that say they're nice, I mean genuinely nice. They have the relationships that last and understand that all relationships are give and take. A one sided relationship never works, and conversation makes all the difference in the world.

TLDR; good argument and if you don't know if you should pay or not, ask, talk, decide. If you don't agree move on. There is no right or wrong answer.

[Mehrunes]

You are trying to see the world through your set of filters as if those are the only ones that exist or count, and that just isn't so. The difference between Asian culture and Western culture is well documented -- take your pick of Hall's high context vs low context or the Lewis model. Check various studies such as those cited by Nesbitt or even Willingham and you'll see that this extends to how problem solving is approached, even brain activity or eye motion. Notice a pattern in the discussion -- the two women you're quoting -- Asian, living and dating in Asia. Whole different environment, expectations, and rules. Statistically, if you are shown the same picture as they are, your eyes will focus center foreground to the outside of the picture, theirs will do the opposite, and each group will describe the picture in roughly the same pattern that they viewed it. That's how basic the differences are, it isn't just Kipling's East is East and West is West.

The only way things like high context culture vs low context culture are going to apply to the idea that men should pay for dates is when you consider the fact that high context cultures are more traditional and resistant to societal change. Because that idea applied to most of the world at some point and some countries just grew out of it. Because other than that, the idea itself isn't a subject to the divide. West Slavic countries are also considered higher context cultures. That idea isn't as strong there as it is in the far east anymore.

[mbg]

And I've been saying paying the bill doesn't mean I'm paying for her company or that I'm insecure. It's sending a message that money doesn't concern me at all when I'm meeting with her and that I want the waiter go away ASAP and let me get back to her, and the fastest way to do that is just pressing the card. If she feels like giving me some part of the money back afterwards, I'll accept, but I won't press it. If she offers to pay at the next venue we stop by, I'll accept. It's also a way of letting her feel appreciated.

Yes, it does show that you are insecure. Don't be a Cloversimp. 0

[shadowmouse]

I think it's safe to say most posters here are Western.

And that is relevant in exactly what manner? Neither of the women are, one is South Korean and the other is Vietnamese. Neither of them are living and dating in a Western country, one is in Singapore and the other in Vietnam. OP is Thai-American, but living and dating in Taiwan. So, the thread question is based on conditions in Taiwan, and two of the few Asian women that we have on the forum are commenting in a manner appropriate to that setting. Western just doesn't have much to do with any of that.

[Freighter]

Your words. You seem to expect that the man should pay. Why's that?

I guess I must have imagined that I paid last time we ate out.

[pateuvasiliu]

I guess I must have imagined that I paid last time we ate out.

And did you pay on the first dates too?

[Freighter]

And did you pay on the first dates too?

No, it's up to them to show they can meet the low bar I've set so I don't waste my time on someone(Poor or cheapskate) I wouldn't date.