Is it cheap to want to split or pay each for themselves on dates?

[SilverWolf26]

Ah yes, marriage is the only way in life. Don't forget, kids, Satan will get you if you bang before the wedding night.

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Okay, so why is it that the man has to pay if you date to spend time with the other person? Common courtesy is that you're an adult and you pay for yourself.

Oh, your assumptions are just making my day. I haven't laughed this hard in ages. Let me guess - you're between 15 and 23?
Assuming you know virtually anything about my dating life is a treat. But, let me be the one to inform you, it is entirely possible to date without getting laid and have fun. It's also entirely possible to get laid without worrying about who is paying for what or who is the alpha. Lastly, and this is a big one - it's entirely possible to date for a while before you jump in to bed with someone and enjoy all of the dates.

[Gaidax]

Okay, so why is it that the man has to pay if you date to spend time with the other person? Common courtesy is that you're an adult and you pay for yourself.

Because for me a restaurant meal is not an expense that is even on the radar, it's a worthless noise that I even don't consider as a topic to raise - I toss my CC and it happens.

When I am out for a date I care about the date and having good time, not about saving some small money on a restaurant bill.

[SilverWolf26]

While the last few posts have been incredibly entertaining if a bit naive, I'm going to excuse myself for now while I go be an adult.

BungeeBungee, I'm sorry I did not understand the original context of the question. I've been answering posts from a Western point of view and bow to those who know more about the specific culture in question than I. I wish you all well and a good morning.

[pateuvasiliu]

Oh, your assumptions are just making my day. I haven't laughed this hard in ages. Let me guess - you're between 15 and 23?
Assuming you know virtually anything about my dating life is a treat. But, let me be the one to inform you, it is entirely possible to date without getting laid and have fun. It's also entirely possible to get laid without worrying about who is paying for what or who is the alpha. Lastly, and this is a big one - it's entirely possible to date for a while before you jump in to bed with someone and enjoy all of the dates.

Now I'm the one laughing.

Because for me a restaurant meal is not an expense that is even on the radar, it's a worthless noise that I even don't consider as a topic to raise - I toss my CC and it happens.

It's not an expense for most people. That isn't the point. The principle is.

You think men who refuse to pay do it because they have no money? That's just the beta hamster at work, alphas tend to have more money. It's the principle.

The idea that you need to goad a woman with free meals to spend time with you is offensive to yourself. Nobody's time is more important than yours. If you need to offer your time AND free shit for someone to spend time with you, you have no self respect.

Let me guess - you're between 15 and 23?

Assuming I'm part of the age group that constitutes the majority of Internet users, truly 200 IQ plays right there.

[shadowmouse]

@SilverWolf26 De nada. You've been civil and have given good points from a woman's perspective, which provides a valuable balance to the discussion.

[Tennis]

It must really suck to spend years dating and wondering about such mundane matters like who pays.

Better idea OP, get out of the dating game and get married. You'll likely be much better off.

[Ethris]

Scenario 1: I (the man) pay for entire date

Possible Outcomes:

-Wow Anon, you sure know how to treat a lady
-Just because you paid for everything doesn't mean I'm obligated to do anything for you
-Wow Anon, how sexist and insulting. You think I need a man to do everything for me?
-No really Anon, I don't want to be a burden; lets at least split (Spoiler: this is a trap and if you fall for it you're not getting a second date)
-No really Anon, I don't want to be a burden; lets split at least (Oh wow are you actually serious?)
-Alright you get this one, but I got next (Spoiler: this is also a trap, you'll be paying for that date too)

Summary: no matter how well-off or feminist your date is, she will expect you to pay. If you don't, it's disrespectful. If she's a bitch, she'll make a big deal out of the fact that not only are you insulting her by paying, but you're not supplicating yourself enough to apologize for your horrible systematic oppression of women.

Scenario 2: We split

-Wow Anon, sure was good to see you. Anyway I have to meet a friend later, see you soon okay? (this is a lie)
-You made me pay half? Now I'm not obligated to even see you again or be nice to you.
-Wow Anon, how sexist and insulting. On top of perpetuating the systematic oppression of women just by virtue of the fact that you are a man, I learned in my Gender Studies class that women only make $0.75 to a man's dollar, so you're actually asking me to pay more than my fair share of the date because I make less money.
-Wait, you actually want to split? Oh no! Can you get this one? I think I left my wallet at home.
-Gee I sure am happy to be treated as an equal and share the financial burden of getting to know someone (said no one ever)
-I'm a little low on cash right now, can you get this one and I'll get next? (Spoiler: there won't be a next one)

Summary: An honest gesture to split the bill will be seen as weakness on the part of the man. Because you are demonstrating that you're only willing to meet her halfway; she'll be obliged to find someone who will meet her more than that. You may think that this is a "happy medium" between "He pays for everything" and "She pays for everything," but in reality, it's only SLIGHTLY less insulting than having her pay for everything.

Scenario 3: She pays

-Wow Anon, sure was a nice evening. Anyway I gotta go. (She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and made her pay for the date)
-You're joking right? (She makes a bullshit excuse like "Hey I'm going to the bathroom for a minute" and bails. She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and tried to make her pay for the date)
-Wow Anon I can't believe you would perpetuate the systematic oppression of women by actually making a womyn pay for a man's time. You realize we make less money right? You realize this is financial rape? This is basically actual rape. Rape. RAAAPE.
-Oh jeez, I actually did leave my wallet at home. I'm such a ditz lol! Are you sure you cant get this one? (She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and tried to make her pay for the date)
-As promised I'll get this one and you get next! (unicorns man)
-Ha, ha. I got this, no problem, its fine! (It's not fine. She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and made her pay for the date)

Summary: The only way that a woman will pay for a date and still want to continue dating you is basically if you're so far out of her league that she has to compete for your time and attention; but you're probably more of a George Costanza than a George Clooney. Having a woman pay for the date is basically suicide. Expect her to be texting all of her friends during the date, letting them know how shitty and cheap you are.

[Tennis]

No, it's up to them to show they can meet the low bar I've set so I don't waste my time on someone(Poor or cheapskate) I wouldn't date.

What if you're 30 and single, would that bar change?

[pateuvasiliu]

Scenario 1: I (the man) pay for entire date

Possible Outcomes:

-Wow Anon, you sure know how to treat a lady
-Just because you paid for everything doesn't mean I'm obligated to do anything for you
-Wow Anon, how sexist and insulting. You think I need a man to do everything for me?
-No really Anon, I don't want to be a burden; lets at least split (Spoiler: this is a trap and if you fall for it you're not getting a second date)
-No really Anon, I don't want to be a burden; lets split at least (Oh wow are you actually serious?)
-Alright you get this one, but I got next (Spoiler: this is also a trap, you'll be paying for that date too)

Summary: no matter how well-off or feminist your date is, she will expect you to pay. If you don't, it's disrespectful. If she's a bitch, she'll make a big deal out of the fact that not only are you insulting her by paying, but you're not supplicating yourself enough to apologize for your horrible systematic oppression of women.

Scenario 2: We split

-Wow Anon, sure was good to see you. Anyway I have to meet a friend later, see you soon okay? (this is a lie)
-You made me pay half? Now I'm not obligated to even see you again or be nice to you.
-Wow Anon, how sexist and insulting. On top of perpetuating the systematic oppression of women just by virtue of the fact that you are a man, I learned in my Gender Studies class that women only make $0.75 to a man's dollar, so you're actually asking me to pay more than my fair share of the date because I make less money.
-Wait, you actually want to split? Oh no! Can you get this one? I think I left my wallet at home.
-Gee I sure am happy to be treated as an equal and share the financial burden of getting to know someone (said no one ever)
-I'm a little low on cash right now, can you get this one and I'll get next? (Spoiler: there won't be a next one)

Summary: An honest gesture to split the bill will be seen as weakness on the part of the man. Because you are demonstrating that you're only willing to meet her halfway; she'll be obliged to find someone who will meet her more than that. You may think that this is a "happy medium" between "He pays for everything" and "She pays for everything," but in reality, it's only SLIGHTLY less insulting than having her pay for everything.

Scenario 3: She pays

-Wow Anon, sure was a nice evening. Anyway I gotta go. (She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and made her pay for the date)
-You're joking right? (She makes a bullshit excuse like "Hey I'm going to the bathroom for a minute" and bails. She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and tried to make her pay for the date)
-Wow Anon I can't believe you would perpetuate the systematic oppression of women by actually making a womyn pay for a man's time. You realize we make less money right? You realize this is financial rape? This is basically actual rape. Rape. RAAAPE.
-Oh jeez, I actually did leave my wallet at home. I'm such a ditz lol! Are you sure you cant get this one? (She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and tried to make her pay for the date)
-As promised I'll get this one and you get next! (unicorns man)
-Ha, ha. I got this, no problem, its fine! (It's not fine. She will later tell all her friends you are a cheapskate and made her pay for the date)

Summary: The only way that a woman will pay for a date and still want to continue dating you is basically if you're so far out of her league that she has to compete for your time and attention; but you're probably more of a George Costanza than a George Clooney. Having a woman pay for the date is basically suicide. Expect her to be texting all of her friends during the date, letting them know how shitty and cheap you are.

So? Bullet dodged. You don't need to date her friends. Find yourself a woman that will treat you as an equal, not someone who should worship her vagina.

And if she texts a lot during the date you don't want to date her, anyway.

The only way that a woman will pay for a date and still want to continue dating you is basically if you're so far out of her league

If you see a man and a woman on a date the man is out of her league already. Women date up. Supply and demand. They will always choose the best option.

[Gaidax]

It's not an expense for most people. That isn't the point. The principle is.

You think men who refuse to pay do it because they have no money? That's just the beta hamster at work, alphas tend to have more money. It's the principle.

The idea that you need to goad a woman with free meals to spend time with you is offensive to yourself. Nobody's time is more important than yours. If you need to offer your time AND free shit for someone to spend time with you, you have no self respect.

See, thing is, you are talking like some shitheads back in my school who were "street-wise" with all the street terms you overuse here. I had one of these "alphas" 10 years later serve me and my spouse drinks in the beach restaurant. I could not help but smirk under the mustache remembering how much of a hot shot "alpha" he was.

Bottom line - I just don't care about infantile noise, that's about it. These "hood" terms hold no meaning to me whatsoever.

[Lotus Victoria]

It's fair, but I don't mind paying. I hate when other people pay stuff for me, and for those who feel the same, I split.

[Ethris]

So? Bullet dodged. You don't need to date her friends.

That's not the point. Good luck getting a woman to stay with you if all her friends are telling her you're a douchebag. You are simultaneously in the position of seeking the approval of her friends, while making them jealous that you're not with them. Part of your effective value in the eyes of a woman is how envious her friends are. You can talk big game, but the proof is in the fact that her friends are jealous of what she has. If you aren't shit to them, you're not shit to her.

Find yourself a woman that will treat you as an equal, not someone who should worship her vagina.

A few moments later:

If you see a man and a woman on a date the man is out of her league already. Women date up. Supply and demand. They will always choose the best option.

[pateuvasiliu]

See, thing is, you are talking like some shitheads back in my school who were "street-wise" with all the street terms you overuse here. I had one of these "alphas" 10 years later serve me and my spouse drinks in the beach restaurant. I could not help but smirk under the mustache remembering how much of a hot shot "alpha" he was.

Bottom line - I just don't care about infantile noise, that's about it. These "hood" terms hold no meaning to me whatsoever.

Those aren't hood terms. As for me, I could do nothing but sit on my ass the rest of my life and I'd probably manage to get by just fine, but I chose to become a Chemical Engineer, which isn't something your average human can do. Not because I want to have vacations all over the world, but because I like challenging myself and love chemistry and science in general.

I had one of these "alphas" 10 years later serve me and my spouse drinks in the beach restaurant

For every alpha serving you drinks there's 10 betas who were only chosen as a spouse by a woman that fucked hundreds of better men and needed a fool with whom to settle down. Said fool thinks he's oh so lucky that he gets to marry her.

Paying for her time is the first step to being one of those 10.

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That's not the point. Good luck getting a woman to stay with you if all her friends are telling her you're a douchebag.

Easy, you have to be so good that your opinion matters more than hers. I.e. be successful, have a good job, cool hobbies, have friends and be respected.

A few moments later

Duh, that's an idealised concept. You're never going to find someone that's truly your equal.

[temp2021ph]

as i take, it depends on the country and the culture there.
where i am from, a real man never split bills. Offering to split is borderline rude.
i guess those who prefer split, also put half of the bill besides the ring in the box when they propose later then?

[Gaidax]

*snip*

I understand, you are still young and inexperienced, so that's why you focus on small things that do not matter, like this constant necessity to "prove yourself" and think you are some exceptional individual. It's ok, it will pass by 30 when you will enter next phase in life where you will have career, meet and befriend people who are no less capable and at times much more capable than you, meet your wife and have children on the way. This is the real big boys game there, when you will have responsibilities far greater than what you have now. It changes your perspective.

Then you will understand just how small these things you thought mattered at 20 are. All this "alphas", "I am smartest", "paying for date" things, yeah I too was there at 20. It's fine, it will pass.

[shifu]

If you asked her out on a date. It is proper etiquette for you to pay for the dinner.

If she asked you on a date. It is proper etiquette for her to pay for dinner.

Also this very question has become increasing more situational. If she is a feminazi and all crazy about equal rights. I would and have suggested going 50/50 on the bill. I've gotten a very positive response to this but only for this specific situation.

[pateuvasiliu]

I understand, you are still young and inexperienced, so that's why you focus on small things that do not matter, like this constant necessity to "prove yourself" and think you are some exceptional individual. It's ok, it will pass by 30 when you will enter next phase in life where you will have career, meet and befriend people who are no less capable and at times much more capable than you, meet your wife and have children on the way. This is the real big boys game there, when you will have responsibilities far greater than what you have now. It changes your perspective.

Then you will understand just how small these things you thought mattered at 20 are. All this "alphas", "I am smartest", "paying for date" things, yeah I too was there at 20. It's fine, it will pass.

I never said I am the smartest, you likened my talk to someone that cooked you donuts or whatever. It's not happening.

I don't have a need to prove myself, if anything I am the complete opposite. I don't need to prove myself to anyone.

And I can think of nothing more miserable than being married at 30.

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If you asked her out on a date. It is proper etiquette for you to pay for the dinner.

If she asked you on a date. It is proper etiquette for her to pay for dinner.
.

Might as well say the man should pay, men invite women in 99.9% cases.

[Deleted]

You're a mug if you pay. Every girl you're dating has given it up for free for certain men without them having to pay a penny in a shorter time frame than it will take you and your wallet. Must be quite humiliating to be paying just to get on semi-even footing with those men.

[Sigo]

When I asked someone out I took them out and paid for the date, But if they asked me I would take it they would pay. So who ever ask who out they pay.

[shifu]

This is why I would always highly recommend DO NOT DO A DINNER DATE FIRST EVER!

Ask to meet up for coffee on your dime. At most you are out 15$ and you can determine in the 15-60 minute meet and greet if this is someone you would be interested in seeing a second time. Plus you use the coffee meet and greet to figure out what their interests and dislikes are. Then from there during the meet and greet you can figure out what the date will be like. Is she more a walk through the park and go exploring girl. Or is she the wants delicious food and movie type. Hell I even had one who was comic nerd. So I took her to a comic store for our first date and we talked about comic books.

I never ask women to dinner first. It's always coffee. Plus if makes you look more mature and professional. Whenever the women insist on dinner or going out for drinks for the first time meeting they usually have an ulterior motive.

If they are willing to meet for coffee they are much more inclined to meet for the potential for a relationship. Rather then the potential for free food or alcohol.

But then again this is just my experience in Colorado im sure it is much different in other countries.

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I never said I am the smartest, you likened my talk to someone that cooked you donuts or whatever. It's not happening.

I don't have a need to prove myself, if anything I am the complete opposite. I don't need to prove myself to anyone.

And I can think of nothing more miserable than being married at 30.

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Might as well say the man should pay, men invite women in 99.9% cases.

Well yes by the logic.

However be it as it may. I have actually had two women who asked me on a date and paid when the bill came over. Rare? absolutely. But not out of the question.