Blizzard should do the right thing and disable the Raider.io addon's functionality

[Emancptr]

Somehow I struggle to believe this. Feels like another fantasy world story that people in MMO-C love to come up with, especially considering how you said **many players with 3k** when that score itself is not that common. In EU-English there's exactly 97 players above 3k, 167 in all EU.

You're talking about two different scores. The person you quoted is referencing Raider.io score (where 3k is good, but not uncommon). Meanwhile, you're quoting numbers from wowprogress where 3k is top tier.

[Deleted]

If it's any consolation, Blizzard did state that mythic plus had opened their eyes when it came to balancing class utility (something they can't easily do mid-expansion) and hopefully shadow priests will receive something to bring them in line of being considered, at least not a liability, in Battle for Azeroth.

The nerf to aoe stuns and combat ress helps even out the field, but they will still need something as they are sorely lacking as of right now. I really don't understand why your silence is a 45 second cooldown when boomkin has the same thing except aoe, and theirs even lasts two seconds longer.

Yeah, I have trust on them with this. They didn't anticipate the popularity of M+ and how balancing ended being at high keys. I'd like some other kind of utility too, like maybe Void Shift being PVE again.

Poster I was replying to was talking about hes raider.io and I was talking about raider.io. Even this thread was started about raider.io addon. There are thousands of players with 3k+ on raider.io and hundreds over 4k.

You're talking about two different scores. The person you quoted is referencing Raider.io score (where 3k is good, but not uncommon). Meanwhile, you're quoting numbers from wowprogress where 3k is top tier.

My mistake.

[Dracodraco]

You are not using the word "average" correctly. If 2k was average, I wouldn't be in the top 10 shadow priests in my realm and top 100 priests overall. 965 being "super common" is pure delusion, considering you're almost 10 item levels far from that yourself.

1:
The amount of applicants you get for a +15, 965 is super common - if you set the requirement at 950, you'll have a bunch between 960-970 to pick from. Thus, "average" - 965 is nothing special and won't get you into a group for having a "high item level", because it's not high.

2:
You said 965 in bags. You're looking at my equipped item level as a *hunter* who uses 4piece old tier and arcanocrystal, and think I'm *actually* 957? I have 970 in bags. That's not even high enough to get me in without credentials, and I play something that's actually *good* in M+.

[thunderdragon2]

Those people aren't looking for you; they are looking for each other. Why should you care if a subset of players really wants to focus M+ and run with others who want the same? Why not let them use tools to find each other?

then they should revert it back to the way it was in wod just for cosmetics remove the gear form it completely

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How can they be excluding? You have same access as everyone else. We all get a key from our weekly chest or first M dungeon of the week. We all have access to group finder. I can no more exclude you than you can exclude me.

Only way I can see you being excluded is if you insist on joining groups that want to do things differently than you. For example, if there is group where everyone has run all the dungeons and practice most of them more than once, and you are unwilling to do those things, you might not be a good fit for that group. But surely there are others who feel as you do and you can group with them. Just look for other players who don't care about Raider IO and y'all have fun together.

the problem becomes when he starts filling the board form his own key there will be a point where hes only lacking a few dungeons out of a pool of 13 it could possibly be also u need 2k score to get into a +15 pug atleast as a dps if ur only doing 15s that's impossible expcily if ur only using ur own key as ud need every dungeon most need atleast 1 chest (170) points

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People who jump into +15 who can barely pull 800k dps are the one's ruining it for everyone else. People won't stay in their lane and will attempt to cruise inside the slipstream of those who are better and faster than them, it's a problem in this game, that's why you need iLvl, mythic+ score and AOTC.

When you start a keystone and realize the mage you invited who is ilvl 950 is doing sub 800k dps, you leave the group, deplete the key and start a new one, except this time you screen better.
See this problem didn't stem from raider.io, it stemmed from bad DPS getting into 15s, like how are you expecting people to react, just keep inviting bads over and over until your key becomes +10? If anything, they need to implement ways to track or observe someone's DPS potential before you go inside of a raid or dungeon.

here's the kicker, after u leave u find out the mage has 2k score, awesome system

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1600? Come on man. Even for healers 2.5k+ is requested for 15s.

never heard of that outside of grievous week

[Cheze]

blizzard just need to implement a similar feature in a way that strips out information asymmetry and the potential for bad behavior; it's clear that there is demand for this kind of sorting among the playerbase and in an environment where key dungeon/level has value it's imo only fair to give people clear information when sorting groups.

If the game assigned everyone some seasonal 'm+ rating' it could be implemented much better (i.e. scaling rating gains based on how many people completed 15 tyrannical seat that week, etc) and would be available to all players. They could also then implement anti-BM stuff like preventing players from requiring a higher rating than they already have, displaying the groups' rating in the LFG tool, etc.

gearscore ultimately got them to be a lot more transparent about displaying item level; raider.io should do the same for m+ performance

ed: it would also probably eliminate a lot of the more toxic interactions that happen between newer and more experienced players; if you know when forming/joining the group that it's a relatively inexperienced run then you can either avoid it, or know what you're getting into.

[brbshower]

OP: Complaining that his alts, which he claim are all 950-960 ilvl can't get into m+ groups
Me: Having absolutely no trouble getting into m+ groups on my alts who are around 920 ilvl

Just because you got declined from a couple of groups over some stupid site doesn't mean you have to come here and make a rage thread about it. It isn't blizzards fault. This is just the next "gearscore" that players have decided to use as a crutch for building what they hope will be a competent and wipe free group. You're just going to have to get with the times OP.

[Velerios]

Sorry, but the main question is: Do you really want to group with people who are so stupid to listen only to this addon? Rather look a bit longer and find or create a group without this BS-Addon

And yes: many people are using this addon because many people are... you know what i mean. It's exactly the same BS as Gearscore when it first came out, sadly it never went away, since blizzard added it to the game itself. Nowadays you don't need experience, you need to be 20+ ilvl above the items that drops in the instance.

[thazig]

I missed the timer on an 18 (we were 5 tanking it at 5am) and still got a higher score than any 8 or 9 I've ever run, so I strongly suspect you are exaggerating.

Not exaggerating, being on a high pop server and doing runs later in the week = not getting anything for points unless you do the highest of keys. So yea, I can get a better score doing lower keys with a random from a low pop server than a group of people from my own server doing 15-18s mid to late in the week after reset.

[Illiterate]

Sorry, but the main question is: Do you really want to group with people who are so stupid to listen only to this addon? Rather look a bit longer and find or create a group without this BS-Addon

And yes: many people are using this addon because many people are... you know what i mean. It's exactly the same BS as Gearscore when it first came out, sadly it never went away, since blizzard added it to the game itself. Nowadays you don't need experience, you need to be 20+ ilvl above the items that drops in the instance.

Supply and demand. Don't like it? Make your own group and enjoy wiping all day until the group disbands.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Not exaggerating, being on a high pop server and doing runs later in the week = not getting anything for points unless you do the highest of keys. So yea, I can get a better score doing lower keys with a random from a low pop server than a group of people from my own server doing 15-18s mid to late in the week after reset.

I agree that needs fixing. Maybe M+ ratings will go the way of gear score in that Blizz will cook them into the game. As some have pointed out, they are actually more useful/more fair than I-lvl, since they are more likely to correlate to your performance (not perfectly, but more likely).

My perfect system would include all runs you have done AND would show both your score on that specific toon (do you really know sub rogue?), that role (i.e. healer-tank-dps), and score on your highest toon (to reflect your overall M+ experience as a player). To make it fair, this should be cross-realm and not affected by your server pop.

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A really cool feature would be to track each person's scores as group leader, i.e., does this person lead successful runs? It might matter less whether someone is on their undergeared alt they are still learning to play if they are a whiz at putting together group comp and calling stuns/interrupts during the run.

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then they should revert it back to the way it was in wod just for cosmetics remove the gear form it completely

How does that follow? Are you advocating the same change for raids? Right now Group Finder is a free market tool where anyone can start a group for any activity and invite whoever they want, even if the activity is silly and their requirements are goofy. The tool itself is neutral and it's up to us how we use it.

We could go to a more socialist system where anyone forming a group was required to use the suggested item level for that content and set to auto-accept. If we did this, however, I suspect you would see even fewer people stepping up to lead groups. Group Finder would be mostly empty, so that wouldn't help anyone.

the problem becomes when he starts filling the board form his own key there will be a point where hes only lacking a few dungeons out of a pool of 13 it could possibly be also u need 2k score to get into a +15 pug atleast as a dps if ur only doing 15s that's impossible expcily if ur only using ur own key as ud need every dungeon most need atleast 1 chest (170) points

I am in this position myself. I only started paying attention to my score last week. Before that I was like a lot of players - I found some friends to run one +15 a week and called it good. When I checked my score last Wednesday, it was only 950 or something like that. Started running the dungeons I didn't have a score for (most of them) and raised it to 1710. My computer died New Years Eve or I think I could have made 2000 before reset. I still have two dungeons with no scores (Arcway - easy! and Seat) as well as some others with scores I feel very confident about being able to improve. I'm not stressing over any of this. Between friends, guild mates, and group finder, I am sure I will find a run for those remaining dungeons this week.

[Ragetacular]

Just get a guild, 95% of the people caring about M+ score are terrible anyway, most raiders don't want to do M+ that drop nothing interesting for their spec for a virtual score, so all you'll get is heroic heroes trying to find some sort of validation through 5 man content

Amazing, not one thing you said here is correct.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You know, before Raider.IO, most groups in queue were going off item level. Are those opposed to the addon really advocating for item level instead?

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The fact that you can potentially steamroll the hardest dungeons out there is rediculous.

Those players you see "steamroll" the hardest dungeons are demonstrating ridiculous alright - ridiculous skill. Mad skills. Have you watched some of those videos? I find them inspiring. Those guys are so on-point with cc/stuns/interrupts/cooldowns, all done on the fly, with quiet calm communication so they stay super coordinated all the way through... Those guys are good, and watching them gets me excited to take my own game up a notch.

[Deleted]

I would like to hear what kind of alternative those who oppose Raider.IO propose. Should I invite you based on item level? Should I quiz you on your class, spec and the dungeon we are about to run? Or just invite the first person who happens to sign up? The only one of those which would be even remotely useful is quizzing you and I doubt you would have time or interest enough to answer questions every single time you sign up for a dungeon group, so until we are provided with a better, more fair way of determining if you actually know what you are doing or not, raider.io is the best solution at this time and way more fair and detailed than item level.

[FelPlague]

My only problem with Raider IO is it seems to not track anything 10 or below
so groups 11+ are looking for people on raider IO and since they cant get in 11's to get the rank they cant get rank. Im on that issue now

i have 5 of them at 15-16
but because i havent done the other 8 dungeons i only have 800 score when groups doing 15 look for about 2k.
now i could get 2k if i did the rest, but i can only get in 10 or less groups... and it doesent track...

so its like raids asking for 930, but you cant get anything over 900 from anything but raids, so you need to do the raid to get into the raid...

Its the "heroic Antorus week 1 looking for people with AOTC"

or if the average arena group is looking for 2000
but you cant get up to 2000 unless you run with 2000 people, you cant work your way up, as it doesent "give you points" for wins of anything under 2000.

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You know, before Raider.IO, most groups in queue were going off item level. Are those opposed to the addon really advocating for item level instead?

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Those players you see "steamroll" the hardest dungeons are demonstrating ridiculous alright - ridiculous skill. Mad skills. Have you watched some of those videos? I find them inspiring. Those guys are so on-point with cc/stuns/interrupts/cooldowns, all done on the fly, with quiet calm communication so they stay super coordinated all the way through... Those guys are good, and watching them gets me excited to take my own game up a notch.

yes i much more like ilvl, cause raider IO has its problems look above.

If it tracked 10 and below it would be near perfect, but you run the issues of you cant even work up, you have to get lucky to get groups or hope to make them yourself as a lone dps....

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

yes i much more like ilvl, cause raider IO has its problems look above.

If it tracked 10 and below it would be near perfect, but you run the issues of you cant even work up, you have to get lucky to get groups or hope to make them yourself as a lone dps....

Or run them with friends? I have dps friends whisper me all the time asking if I'd like to tank some M+. I always say yes if I'm not busy, because I love M+ and who wouldn't rather run with friends?

[Kappa420]

The issue with mythic+ score is the fact that Blizzard only keeps track of top 100 runs each week, and because they only track top 100 then anything lower won't get added on Raider.IO and wowprogress. I play on Tarren Mill where we have a lot of capable players which means that to get a registered run i would have to do 20's most weeks to be sure they register. I am forced to do keys right after reset to make sure that the keys i do get registered and that is the main issue if you ask me. i can do low keys like 9's and so on, on wed and they will get registered if i were to do 18's on Tue it would not get registered because it is not within the top 100 of the week.

The mythic + score system is not bad as a guideline since it shows how well people are doing in M+, but it is bad because most of the actual data gets lost. the only option i see for fixing this is that Blizzard makes some changes on their end to make the individual players M+ data more accessible for Raider.IO and wowprogress.

And as always the issue is that when you give people a tool to measure each other then they will abuse it to their fullest.

[HuxNeva]

If you're getting declined, its because they don't feel that your character is good enough for their group.

Much more likely your not getting actively declined, but there are just a lott more potentially better geared/experienced people in the queue or people with a more desirable class/spec for the affixes.

I get the feeling a lot of the haters in here never ever made a group for a desirable key. Try it. Could be a sobering eye opener.

[RobertMugabe]

As stupid as it might sound... your best bet is to just farm 100-150k gold and get carried. That's just the sad current state of this game and looking at the comments here, it isn't a surprise.

[Deleted]

As stupid as it might sound... your best bet is to just farm 100-150k gold and get carried. That's just the sad current state of this game and looking at the comments here, it isn't a surprise.

No your best bet is to get a group of friends together or just create the group yourself.

I really should take a screenshot next time I'm creating a group and pug a dps, the list is filled with 10-30+ applicants within a minute and I usually only have room for a single person. Another way of increasing the odds of finding a group would be to change role to something that isn't the most popular one, I tend to give healers more leeway than dps as they can more often get away with a lower score.

[RobertMugabe]

No your best bet is to get a group of friends together or just create the group yourself.

No it's not ^^

Literally the easiest (incl. the gold farming part) thing is to get a reliable boosting-group. Making a group yourself will take longer and you just end up with the same issue where scrubs with good stats still screw up your key (or people don't want to sign up because your score is low)