Why will Mage tower and Mythic Plus appearances be Unobtainable post Legion?

[Queen of Hamsters]

As if it's not a big enough pain in the rear to complete 34 challenges if you want all of them anyway... you have to gear all those toons too...

I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't scale toons upwards though, so that would probably still be a fact even if they applied scaling tech.

Gearing characters to 920+ ilvl is beyond easy at that.

[Henako]

The other one being the druid werebear form, though there are other options to choose from, that form is simply vastly superior in every sense.
Something like the claws of Shirvalla talent was back then but that isn't a problem since there exist a toy which turns you into a saberon anyways.

Lets get one thing straight. That were-cat form was so shit that it made me quit my Feral. You're daft.

[Deleted]

I have the undying title and the korkron war wolf and these are some of my favourite things, partly because of the difficulty of earning them and the fact that you can no longer cheese them and earn them solo ages after the content was relevant.

And both could be cheesed for gold at the time it was current content i bet just like every piece of content that can be cleared with less than maximum amount of players

[Santoryu]

Put in more of what? Skill? Time? Gold? RLM? Cpu Cycles? Gpu Cycles? With your straight up argument i should have had more than several top10 guild players during several expansions (way back) because i put more time into the game over the expansion but i didn't because i was more inefficient or had no interest in some aspects of the game and therefore missed out on stuff. If they removed BMAH i would agree with the remove stuff argument but when they started to remove stuff from game to make it exclusive to BMAH that argument lost all validity.

Time and effort. And you presented the answer yourself. You missed out on stuff because you were more inefficient and had your interests lie elsewhere in the game.

[SirCowdog]

Im a huge fan of removing stuff so that it doesnt lose its prestige, but...mage tower hasnt been challenging for some months now... All challenges where done by people with 895-905 ilvl, while most chars are 950 by now!

WHAT prestige? The prestige of having logged in during Legion?

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And i still think they should become unobtainable in 8.0.

But WHY should they become unobtainable? Where's the benefit to the game of turning off or removing content like that?

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I think these kind of challanges should scale your character and set you to certain gear level.
They are basicly impossible to do unless you have certain level of gear, but they are also way too easy if you overgear it.

I think something like this would be possible using the vehicle system. When you start the challenge your gear and abilities are replaced by a vehicle with set skills, damage, healing, etc. But then it would also be less of a "class" challenge.

Really I think they'd be better off simply changing the appearances to a low drop rate and turn them into the same sort of gameplay in old content that farming for rare mounts is. It's the easiest solution that requires the least amount of dev time, while still making those appearance available with some amount of effort involved.

[Peacemoon]

And both could be cheesed for gold at the time it was current content i bet just like every piece of content that can be cleared with less than maximum amount of players

A tiny minority of players 'buying' stuff like this is not a good excuse to let everyone solo it whenever they want one expansion pack later.

There is nothing wrong with time exclusive rewards where challenge, not RNG, is the principle requirement. If anything WoW could do with more rewards for Achievements like Ahead of the Curve.

[SirCowdog]

On the one hand, blizzard going back and retuning a bunch of encounters periodically sounds great. What doesnt sound great is when blizzard says “were skipping a raid tier because we spent all that time retuning bosses”.

They're already moving away from raiding as the primary focus of the game anyway, and have to rebalance and adjust things like M+ each time new gear is released. They've also released more dungeons this expansion than any expansion in recent history.

The simple truth is that it's going to take less dev time to remaster challenges that already exist than it is to create entirely new content. In the long run this will result in there being overall more content available for people to pursue, as Blizzard gets more value out of the stuff they've already created. The game and the content will end up lasting longer.

[Nihilan]

But WHY should they become unobtainable? Where's the benefit to the game of turning off or removing content like that?

The mage tower skins are Legion's version of Challenge Dungeon content. And all through mop and wod people complained about not having ANY meaningful single player "hard" content. That is what the mage tower is. Difficult content for individuals. Yes, it is possible to throw gear at it nowadays, but they are still mechanically difficult enough to be an actual achievement for those who have completed them. And, like challenge skins before them, they will remain an account wide unlock for every class/spec you unlock them on - forever. For that achievement to have any meaning what so ever people should not be able to wait two expansions and then go in with a 750 ilevel advantage and just obliterate everything while collecting their rewards. Not to mention it makes no sense to be able to earn rewards years from now for items that lore-wise, we are losing very early on in the BfA.

You have ample time to do them now, while they are current content. A person that is not motivated to do so or capable of doing so has no right to the weapon skins. Simple as that. This is a pure case of people feeling entitled to things that they wont or cant earn when earning them is still a challenge.

Do i think the Mage Tower challenges were implemented well? No i do not. Player gear should have been statically set at 875-900 or w/e to remove item level from the equation. I think it should have been left to a 100% execution fight where it all comes down to player knowledge and reflex. But it is what it is. Even if the scaling was static, id still argue in favor of them becoming unobtainable after Legion.

[Biggles Worth]

This makes 0 sense.
Why in the world would they do such a silly thing as to not let us have ALL artifact appearances obtainable somehow post Legion?

Just to clarify: I have all artifact skins for every spec.

The main problem is the demon hunter one: Flamereaper is by a wide margin better than any other appearance, hence it would be a pain for someone who joins the game later not being able to obtain that particular appearance. especially considering how few other options DHs have compared to other classes.

The other one being the druid werebear form, though there are other options to choose from, that form is simply vastly superior in every sense.
Something like the claws of Shirvalla talent was back then but that isn't a problem since there exist a toy which turns you into a saberon anyways.

The point is, there must exist some way in which future players could obtain these exquisite appearances also. Must not be the current way, a way nonetheless.

I missed my chance during Mist of Pandaria to get that awesome looking mage set. I wish that I can obtain it now. Based off of this, I will agree that keeping it accessible is nice.

[Dahij]

Artifact skins are very specifically iconic to each class and spec. The comparison is absolutely valid.

No they're not. The first base appearance is since most of those are actually mentioned in lore and/or NPCs. The mythic +15 and mage tower skins are not.

[WhiteEagle888]

Lets get one thing straight. That were-cat form was so shit that it made me quit my Feral. You're daft.

So you quit your spec because of an entirely optional talent?

you're a fucking genius, mate XD

[SirCowdog]

The mage tower skins are Legion's version of Challenge Dungeon content. And all through mop and wod people complained about not having ANY meaningful single player "hard" content. That is what the mage tower is. Difficult content for individuals. Yes, it is possible to throw gear at it nowadays, but they are still mechanically difficult enough to be an actual achievement for those who have completed them. And, like challenge skins before them, they will remain an account wide unlock for every class/spec you unlock them on - forever. For that achievement to have any meaning what so ever people should not be able to wait two expansions and then go in with a 750 ilevel advantage and just obliterate everything while collecting their rewards. Not to mention it makes no sense to be able to earn rewards years from now for items that lore-wise, we are losing very early on in the BfA.

You have ample time to do them now, while they are current content. A person that is not motivated to do so or capable of doing so has no right to the weapon skins. Simple as that. This is a pure case of people feeling entitled to things that they wont or cant earn when earning them is still a challenge.

Do i think the Mage Tower challenges were implemented well? No i do not. Player gear should have been statically set at 875-900 or w/e to remove item level from the equation. I think it should have been left to a 100% execution fight where it all comes down to player knowledge and reflex. But it is what it is. Even if the scaling was static, id still argue in favor of them becoming unobtainable after Legion.

Basically all you did was post a wiki entry. We all already know what the mage tower is. What I was asking is where's the benefit of turning off content like that? Wouldn't it be better to continually update the "challenge" so that players have something to tackle that's based on skill rather than gear?

I still have yet to hear and actual benefit of simple making them unavailable later. The only thing I've heard repeated over and over is "Because it wouldn't be relevant at higher ilvls". That's a great description of the problem, but doesn't describe how it makes the game or the content better in any way.

You say you'd still argue in favor of them becomeing unobtainable after legion. Why? Expand please!

[Jester Joe]

Basically all you did was post a wiki entry. We all already know what the mage tower is. What I was asking is where's the benefit of turning off content like that? Wouldn't it be better to continually update the "challenge" so that players have something to tackle that's based on skill rather than gear?

I still have yet to hear and actual benefit of simple making them unavailable later. The only thing I've heard repeated over and over is "Because it wouldn't be relevant at higher ilvls". That's a great description of the problem, but doesn't describe how it makes the game or the content better in any way.

You say you'd still argue in favor of them becomeing unobtainable after legion. Why? Expand please!

Why are you so against giving players something extra for sticking around and playing?

You played MoP and killed Garrosh? Heirloom weapons and a mount.
You completed the Green Fire questline at level 90? You get a FoS and a title.
You played WoD and killed Archimonde? You get a moose.

Why is it so bad to give players access to limited time things?

[Deleted]

haha i know right^^ that one was hard =)

[Spotnick]

It's a reward for playing Legion.

You have more than a year to do it in Legion.

How is it unfair?

Last time I checked, I cannot get past gladiator mounts.

Plus, that's the one reason to do it, it's a solo challenge you can't buy and prove your worth, even though it's a lot easier now.

[SirCowdog]

Why are you so against giving players something extra for sticking around and playing?

You played MoP and killed Garrosh? Heirloom weapons and a mount.
You completed the Green Fire questline at level 90? You get a FoS and a title.
You played WoD and killed Archimonde? You get a moose.

Why is it so bad to give players access to limited time things?

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just asking for an actual explanation of how this makes the game better. So far no one seems to be able to give ANY reason other than "T3h pr3st1g3z!!!!"

Challenge modes are specifically designed to be something based on skill and not just logging in, or overpowering with gear. Why is is so hard to understand that including and maintaining something in the game that's ACTUALLY challenging will continuously give players something to strive for instead of just rewarding them for being present during a specific time frame?

[Jester Joe]

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just asking for an actual explanation of how this makes the game better. So far no one seems to be able to give ANY reason other than "T3h pr3st1g3z!!!!"

Challenge modes are specifically designed to be something based on skill and not just logging in, or overpowering with gear. Why is is so hard to understand that including and maintaining something in the game that's ACTUALLY challenging will continuously give players something to strive for instead of just rewarding them for being present during a specific time frame?

Because what's the fun in doing the challenge now if you could just wait til next expansion and faceroll it completely? Granted, with some of the gear now they're already becoming faceroll, but you still have to at least follow some mechanics.

Also, it's nearly impossible to maintain something considering how many times they drastically change specs between expansions. A Ret Paladin now in MoP Challenge modes is drastically different than a Ret Paladin back in MoP doing Challenge modes for example. It's impossible to ensure the same balance remains.

And what's so wrong about things having prestige?

[SirCowdog]

Because what's the fun in doing the challenge now if you could just wait til next expansion and faceroll it completely? Granted, with some of the gear now they're already becoming faceroll, but you still have to at least follow some mechanics.

Also, it's nearly impossible to maintain something considering how many times they drastically change specs between expansions. A Ret Paladin now in MoP Challenge modes is drastically different than a Ret Paladin back in MoP doing Challenge modes for example. It's impossible to ensure the same balance remains.

And what's so wrong about things having prestige?

You're still just describing the problem. I don't have a problem with there being "prestige", I just think it should be something that's obtainable through skillful play rather than being limited by a frame of time. There's no real reason to turn off access to these things except to artificially boost someone's sense of special snowflake. I would MUCH rather that the sense of prestige be restricted to "Can you do it or not" instead of "I logged in and overpowered the thing through sheer ilvl because I played during X expansion and you didn't."

And who said the challenge has to be maintained PERFECTLY? If Blizzard is going to create challenges every X-pack, then they might as well update and retool the existing ones for the current class balance, save some dev time in the process, and continue to give players additional things to strive for.

[Jester Joe]

You're still just describing the problem. I don't have a problem with there being "prestige", I just think it should be something that's obtainable through skillful play rather than being limited by a frame of time. There's no real reason to turn off access to these things except to artificially boost someone's sense of special snowflake. I would MUCH rather that the sense of prestige be restricted to "Can you do it or not" instead of "I logged in and overpowered the thing through sheer ilvl because I played during X expansion and you didn't."

And who said the challenge has to be maintained PERFECTLY? If Blizzard is going to create challenges every X-pack, then they might as well update and retool the existing ones for the current class balance, save some dev time in the process, and continue to give players additional things to strive for.

Like it or not, time limitations are part of prestige. People who got the Orc/Wolf statue didn't do anything "skillful", but the statue is still prestigious to have for such dedication to the game.

And there's still the Brawler's guild in game for that, along with the proven grounds.

Lastly, what? Of course the challenge should be maintained perfectly, otherwise you'd end up with wonky things like certain moves being removed/changed and now the challenge needs to be retuned completely, wasting more dev time.

[SirCowdog]

Lastly, what? Of course the challenge should be maintained perfectly, otherwise you'd end up with wonky things like certain moves being removed/changed and now the challenge needs to be retuned completely, wasting more dev time.

I think you missed the point I what I was saying: If Blizzard is going to do some sort of Skill-based challenge that requires dev time ANYWAY, there's no loss(and potentially dev time is SAVED) if they upgraded and modernized the existing challenges to be challenging under the current expansion INSTEAD.

Basically we have the number one complaint being that there's never enough stuff to do in an expansion, but we also have all this abandoned content just lying around. Kill two birds with one stone. Stop promoting special snowflake status and start making a better game.