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  1. #161
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    if Queen Azshara will be declared by Blizz as indeed a Dark troll then she is a candidate and living testament that Trolls/who then turned Night Elves can live more than 10k + years or more.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    Then we don't have any source at all atm. Previously we had RPG stuff that claimed that troll lifespan reaches 75 years. But apparently RPG is not canon. So we're left with nothing.

    The most ancient Azeroth race and nobody knows for sure how long they live apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    There are two lore mentions of Zandalari lifespan. Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde pg. 257 mentions they're long-lived, though it sadly does not specify. But considering For Council and King saying Rastakhan has ruled the Zandalari for over 200 years, I feel the two go hand-in-hand and thus, it's not too bizarre to assume the Zandalari lifespan extends beyond 200 years.

    But yeah, when it comes to non-Zandalari, no idea. I'd say the same applies until Blizzard says otherwise. Maybe they'll someday make their "internal charts" public because that would sure as heck come in handy. But they probably won't and the "internal charts" are just poor excuses for when they have nothing better to say. :'(

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    Then we don't have any source at all atm. Previously we had RPG stuff that claimed that troll lifespan reaches 75 years. But apparently RPG is not canon. So we're left with nothing.

    The most ancient Azeroth race and nobody knows for sure how long they live apparently. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Since when are Trolls the most ancient race on Azeroth? Was it said anywhere they came before Proto Drakes?


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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by God-King Popo View Post
    Queen azshara was a night elf mutated into a naga.
    Didn't NELFs evolve from Trolls? Pretty sure they did.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Since when are Trolls the most ancient race on Azeroth? Was it said anywhere they came before Proto Drakes?
    Ok, One of the most ancinet races, if you're this nitpicky.
    But deffinietly the most ancient among playable ones.

    I don't know when proto drakes were created, but before Chronicle retcon, trolls were already on Azeroth the moment sun touched Azeroth.
    Quote Originally Posted by War-God Zajru View Post
    There are two lore mentions of Zandalari lifespan. Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde pg. 257 mentions they're long-lived, though it sadly does not specify. But considering For Council and King saying Rastakhan has ruled the Zandalari for over 200 years, I feel the two go hand-in-hand and thus, it's not too bizarre to assume the Zandalari lifespan extends beyond 200 years.

    But yeah, when it comes to non-Zandalari, no idea. I'd say the same applies until Blizzard says otherwise. Maybe they'll someday make their "internal charts" public because that would sure as heck come in handy. But they probably won't and the "internal charts" are just poor excuses for when they have nothing better to say. :'(

    Then it would be still close to what GM said.
    Last edited by Ramz; 2017-12-27 at 08:18 PM.
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  6. #166
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    I just made a realization just now and it's haunting and sinister. the well of eternity was the place where Y'sharj was ripped out and after the fall of the Black Empire,peace came to be. This is where Elundris was built or Zin'Azshari. I'm a bit skeptic if was it really Elune who called and lured the underdwellers called Dark Trolls into that scar or were they having hallucinations from the whispers from the supposedly already dead old god or from other living old gods. Maybe it was a plan of the old god all along to create the Kal'dorei civilization against their enemy the Troll empire.

    Azshara and her highbornes were studying the well's power and whatever discovery they might have uncovered that is/was possibly related to the old gods and the connection to the well. Could the Well of Eternity thousands of years old not be purely arcane and uncorrupted as we thought it is?
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-28 at 06:13 AM.

  7. #167
    Says in the Chronicle that Night Elves are Trolls mutated by the Well of Eternity.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    I just made a realization just now and it's haunting and sinister. the well of eternity was the place where Y'sharj was ripped out and after the fall of the Black Empire,peace came to be. This is where Elundris was built or Zin'Azshari. I'm a bit skeptic if was it really Elune who called and lured the underdwellers called Dark Trolls into that scar or were they having hallucinations from the whispers from the supposedly already dead old god or from other living old gods. Maybe it was a plan of the old god all along to create the Kal'dorei civilization against their enemy the Troll empire.

    Azshara and her highbornes were studying the well's power and whatever discovery they might have uncovered that is/was possibly related to the old gods and the connection to the well. Could the Well of Eternity thousands of years old not be purely arcane and uncorrupted as we thought it is?
    While I doubt it, and while I disagree with you on many things... I got to hand it to you Vertigo12, this is legitimately a pretty cool idea.
    For all we know the Old Gods could have planned way further ahead than we thought. Heck they and some of their servants appear to have some degree of foresight.

    Still I consider this a looooooong shot that would have been foreshadowed in some way before now... and it's my anti-elf bias showing where I would be delighted by the idea of the entire elf species being a machination of the old gods to weaken the Troll's defense of the world.

    That said.... we are seriously off-topic now from the original thread topic to get anything remotely useful out of it. I'd start a new speculation topic, maybe some more general title.
    "These are Allied Races, these aren't Sub-Races. There's no direct associated Race or "Parent Race" or anything like that" -Ion Hazzikostas, Blizzcon 2017 Q&A

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDragon View Post
    While I doubt it, and while I disagree with you on many things... I got to hand it to you Vertigo12, this is legitimately a pretty cool idea.
    For all we know the Old Gods could have planned way further ahead than we thought. Heck they and some of their servants appear to have some degree of foresight.

    Still I consider this a looooooong shot that would have been foreshadowed in some way before now... and it's my anti-elf bias showing where I would be delighted by the idea of the entire elf species being a machination of the old gods to weaken the Troll's defense of the world.

    That said.... we are seriously off-topic now from the original thread topic to get anything remotely useful out of it. I'd start a new speculation topic, maybe some more general title.
    If you think about it or even entertain a piece of such speculation or if you have this detective instinct running within you, this would definitely come into mind. Actually now is the right time to discuss Trolls and Elves more than ever. With that being said Kal'dorei civilization will come to play. So does Zandalari and with them the Aqirs and Well of Eternity. We are now on retrospective gaming and backtracking WoW's forgotten and ancient past and reliving it in the present.

    here's an entry from wow wiki site:
    The terrifying dagger known as Xal'atath was made from the claw of an Old God eons ago, and dark priests used it for ritual sacrifices during the height of the Black Empire.[10] It is said that the blade can grant its owner visions of the Black Empire, but all who have looked upon such horrors have lost themselves to madness.[12]Given that the Well of Eternity was formed in the spot from which Aman'Thul tore Y'Shaarj from Azeroth's surface, Zin-Azshari would have been built in roughly the same area as Y'Shaarj's temple city.
    The Temple of Elune was unknowingly built where a mighty structure of the Black Empire once stood.[6]
    There was even an entry about the Black Empire mentioning Mountain in Zandalar that they thought a loa was buried beneathe and a Troll priest tried to revive it and it was Kith'ix or something like that. I'm not a elven nor troll race basher, I'm just merely speculating. Xal'atath became prominent and at play during WoW:Legion and the blade mentions lots of things unknown to the surface dwellers.

    Xal'atath makes several remarks regarding the Broken Shore and its connection to the Old Gods. The dagger claims that the Tomb of Sargeras pales in comparison to the grandeur of what stood there long ago. It explains that Thal'dranath was always a place of power, and that Aegwynn was drawn there, as were the elves, the trolls, and something else, likely the Old Gods. Furthermore, Xal'atath claims that the land had not seen "such carnage" since the Battle for K'tanth, which occurred "long ago", and that it was "here" in ages past that the God of the Deep lost a great battle to the God of Seven Heads, though the defeat ultimately worked in N'Zoth's favor. Thus, it can be speculated that the battle between N'Zoth and Y'Shaarj was fought over this place of power and the great edifice that stood there long ago, possibly named K'tanth, or alternatively what was situated beneath it.
    Not to mention Vol'jin's dying message to Sylvanas that she has to step out of the shadows. Does it mean something figuratively or there is a subliminal message within it. Loa contacted him and spoke through him to let her lead the Horde he's leaving behind.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2017-12-29 at 05:20 AM.

  10. #170
    I see your point but the original topic has been met with a resounding "No, she is not."
    So maybe save all this actually interesting and relevant speculation for a thread that doesn't start with a hypothesis that was easily disproved.
    "These are Allied Races, these aren't Sub-Races. There's no direct associated Race or "Parent Race" or anything like that" -Ion Hazzikostas, Blizzcon 2017 Q&A

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Didn't NELFs evolve from Trolls? Pretty sure they did.
    Yes, several sources state that NE somehow came from trolls but a live in-game NPC claiming such as testament, none yet has taken the blame. This is a reason why I am somehow playing a game of Sherlock Homes and trying to piece evidences to somehow come up with a suspect.With all the research done and all collection of info gathering it somehow points to Queen Azshara.

    Balated Happy New Year everyone by the way. I didn't even bothered posting a response to this thread as the previous year end events made everybody busy irl.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDragon View Post
    I see your point but the original topic has been met with a resounding "No, she is not."
    So maybe save all this actually interesting and relevant speculation for a thread that doesn't start with a hypothesis that was easily disproved.
    We'll get to that and thank you finally for agreeing and somehow seeing my point of view.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2018-01-03 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Yes, several sources state that NE somehow came from trolls but a live in-game NPC claiming such as testament, none yet has taken the blame. This is a reason why I am somehow playing a game of Sherlock Homes and trying to piece evidences to somehow come up with a suspect.With all the research done and all collection of info gathering it somehow points to Queen Azshara.

    Balated Happy New Year everyone by the way. I didn't even bothered posting a response to this thread as the previous year end events made everybody busy irl.

    - - - Updated - - -



    We'll get to that and thank you finally for agreeing and somehow seeing my point of view.
    It’s in Chronicle, which is pretty much word for word canon lore. The night elves were originally dark trolls who evolved due to their proximity to the well of eternity.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    We'll get to that and thank you finally for agreeing and somehow seeing my point of view.
    I didn't agree with you on anything, just that this new bit of speculation, entirely separate from the original point, is actually interesting.

    NO Azshara is likely just the rich spoiled brat daughter of a previous night elf Queen because we KNOW there were other night elf queens before her.
    We also know that the Night Elves didn't evolve from Zandalari directly but from Dark Trolls. So the entire premise of this thread has already been proven false.

    Now start a new thread based on this new speculation topic, it'll be dope and we'll bring blackjack and hookers n'stuff.
    "These are Allied Races, these aren't Sub-Races. There's no direct associated Race or "Parent Race" or anything like that" -Ion Hazzikostas, Blizzcon 2017 Q&A

  14. #174
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    Now that you have mentioned it, it as was brought up and caused several debate from past discussions.Assuming she did came from a regal bloodlines and an heir from a previous queen, it's a pattern with Kal'dorei civilization that's now starting to be more obvious: Darnassian NE/Kal'dorei - racial leader a priestess of the moon, Suramar leader Nightborne Shal'dorei- Grand Magistrix Elisande/First Arcanistress Thalyssra, Zin'Azshara/Naz'jatar- Queen Azshara.


    The only exception are the exiled Highborne Blood Elves led by men, the Sunstrider Dyanasty. Going back to my observation, they are matriarchal much like the Blood Trolls unlike the Zandalari leadership which has a male leader,King Rastakhan. I got a feeling it is so for Dark Trolls, the Kal'dorei civization progeny or their original race. Also curious as to Zandalar Trolls vs. Blood Trolls have any connection if at least any to Zandalar vs. Dark Trolls.

    All trolls are still considered part of Zandalar even though they do have their own tribal name and distinction and I doubt Dark trolls are an exception.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2018-01-08 at 02:04 PM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Since when are Trolls the most ancient race on Azeroth? Was it said anywhere they came before Proto Drakes?
    The trolls are the oldest natural sentient/intelligent race on land, Murlocs in water. In other words, (at least until it probably changes in BfA), the Titans did not make the trolls, they evolved naturally on the world. They are not the mutated offspring of an ancient, like Tauren, Quilboar, Gnolls and such, and they were not built like Earthen, Humans, Gnomes and such.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anax View Post
    The trolls are the oldest natural sentient/intelligent race on land, Murlocs in water. In other words, (at least until it probably changes in BfA), the Titans did not make the trolls, they evolved naturally on the world. They are not the mutated offspring of an ancient, like Tauren, Quilboar, Gnolls and such, and they were not built like Earthen, Humans, Gnomes and such.
    With that being said, perhaps the Trolls are the true children of Azeroth but how they came into existence would be another mystery to be solved and uncovered.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2018-01-08 at 02:05 PM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by The Anax View Post
    The trolls are the oldest natural sentient/intelligent race on land, Murlocs in water. In other words, (at least until it probably changes in BfA), the Titans did not make the trolls, they evolved naturally on the world. They are not the mutated offspring of an ancient, like Tauren, Quilboar, Gnolls and such, and they were not built like Earthen, Humans, Gnomes and such.
    Some proto dragons were sentient and intelligent though. The same was true for the elementals.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Some proto dragons were sentient and intelligent though. The same was true for the elementals.
    The elementals are spirits, and I do not consider them evolved organic life. The protodrakes do not appear any more aware than say a wolf or bear or such. Is there a place in the game where a protodrake talks to you? I may have missed that. Otherwise, I'll say that after the Titans made the Aspects, those unnatural mutants then bore more, and were intelligent, but no longer of the natural world.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by The Anax View Post
    The elementals are spirits, and I do not consider them evolved organic life. The protodrakes do not appear any more aware than say a wolf or bear or such. Is there a place in the game where a protodrake talks to you? I may have missed that. Otherwise, I'll say that after the Titans made the Aspects, those unnatural mutants then bore more, and were intelligent, but no longer of the natural world.
    Malygos for example was intelligent even before he was turned into Aspect.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Malygos for example was intelligent even before he was turned into Aspect.
    Yeah, what was he a gorilla? Some broken speech and grunts and was the smartest of nest making dinosaurs. No opposable thumb or tools? So, like I said, I don't count animals as the same as humanoids building empires lol

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