Keep it simple

[RelaZ]

Classes weren't complex before.

I didn't feel more complex with a a buff that I had to use every wipe/every hour or the random "sooth animal".

Or that one spell that I had to use every min, on CD.

More spells =/= more difficult.

pls stop with threads like these.

What are you talking about? Classes were FAR FAR FAR more complex before WoD and most prominently Legion.

More spells = more difficult. If you fail to see this then you are stupid. What's harder chess or checkers? See. The whole "if I have fewer options then I need to think harder on which one to use" is a stupid argument and is only valid if there's a spell, when more spells are added, that would always be a "nobrainer" to use - which there weren't.

Feral PVP is the most braindead easy it's ever been (bar vanilla). I had 75+ keybinds in MoP, now I have approx 40. It's so mindnumbingly easy to play, and most of all boring. And the funny thing is - the entirety of the PvP community is in agreement on this.

Pvp... you mean Vanilla pvp where the gameplay was "I one shot oyu before you one shot me" ?

Afterwards, yes, hibernate had its use on hunter pets or druids in feral form. Or the priest spell that used to reduce the aggro radius that you could use in arena to know where people were because of the spell effect. Or "mind vision" (not sure of the name) that let you see people even if they went in stealth. I'm not denying that. BUT NOT IN VANILLA. We're talkign about Vanilla.

But keep trying to lie to yourself and others about how complex class were.

What the fuck makes you think we are talking about vanilla? Are you in the wrong forum or something? This is BfA. People are comparing the demo of BfA (and Legion) to WotLK/Cata/MoP, and even WoD to some degree (even though it was horrific, not as much as Legion - but still).

Soothe had massive uses in PvP (removing enrages and Mass/Spell Reflection), Hibernate had massive uses (Hibernating pets for various reasons, other druids and ghost wolf).

Maybe you should stop writing considering you don't know what you're talking about. You know nothing about PvP or PvP gameplay, so maybe you should stop telling people to "write useless threads" when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

[ComputerNerd]

Seems a desperate grasping at straws.
The number of buttons does not prove anything about the number a player can put there, but instead can be about the quantity they want to during what is a limited play session.
Plus the frequently repeated, alpha is alpha or beta is beta etc statements do very much apply.

A specific set of conditions not conducive to a player learning and utilising all that has changed, in addition to being a very early state of the game which may very well not be a good indication of later development.

[Soisoisoi]

What are you talking about? Classes were FAR FAR FAR more complex before WoD and most prominently Legion.

More spells = more difficult. If you fail to see this then you are stupid. What's harder chess or checkers? See. The whole "if I have fewer options then I need to think harder on which one to use" is a stupid argument and is only valid if there's a spell, when more spells are added, that would always be a "nobrainer" to use - which there weren't.

Feral PVP is the most braindead easy it's ever been (bar vanilla). I had 120+ keybinds in MoP, now I have approx 50. It's so mindnumbingly easy to play, and most of all boring. And the funny thing is - the entirety of the PvP community is in agreement on this.

If you're talking about "rotational" abilities, more spells does not mean more complicated at all, if anything [Legion] Survival Hunter and Enhancement Shaman prove that. Both are extremely simple with numerous buttons they just have to spam or keep on-cooldown, effectively becoming whack-a-mole on whatever lights up. Hell, I'd say a Legion BM Hunter was more complicated than those two, and we all know how FEW abilities that has. For added flavour (heh) Vanilla Shaman probably had the most overall spells, including non-rotational spells, they definitely weren't complicated either, just had a lot of globals to spend on their endless totems. Complicated? Nope. Shock, auto attack, keep the totems/buffs you wanted up.

Now, with that said, more spells like those mentioned previously (Soothe, Faerie Fire[don't miss that as a Rogue, though], multi-ranks of abilities such as heals or Frost Bolt to slow, etc) were useful in their own way and I really miss a lot of abilities like those which can show the difference between players of the same class in minute but noticeable ways - especially in PvP. Even in PvE I'm somehow still shocked if I see a Rogue use Distract on a patrol to stop it pulling mid combat even if for me it's a basic utility skill that has always been keybound.

Also, just for the sake of clarity, those 120 keybinds of yours are including arena123(45), focus, etc, because I keybind EVERYTHING and there hasn't been a class that needs more than the current 60 I have.

[RelaZ]

Seems a desperate grasping at straws.
The number of buttons does not prove anything about the number a player can put there, but instead can be about the quantity they want to during what is a limited play session.

This is most certainly not "desperate grasping at straws". The number of buttons most definitely allows a better player to shine, given that no spell is so overpowered that using it is such a no-brainer that it overshadows all other spells (making the number of actively used spells lower than pre-prune). Not everything in this game is about "numbers".

Plus the frequently repeated, alpha is alpha or beta is beta etc statements do very much apply.

As has been made obvious with Blizzard over the years is that what is there in alpha is very likely to stay and not be changed at all.

"it's only alpha" is a horrible excuse when it comes to Blizzard. A more accurate statement would be "alpha is 90% exact replica of release, whatever is in alpha is likely to stay".

- - - Updated - - -

If you're talking about "rotational" abilities, more spells does not mean more complicated at all, if anything [Legion] Survival Hunter and Enhancement Shaman prove that. Both are extremely simple with numerous buttons they just have to spam or keep on-cooldown, effectively becoming whack-a-mole on whatever lights up. Hell, I'd say a Legion BM Hunter was more complicated than those two, and we all know how FEW abilities that has. For added flavour (heh) Vanilla Shaman probably had the most overall spells, including non-rotational spells, they definitely weren't complicated either, just had a lot of globals to spend on their endless totems. Complicated? Nope. Shock, auto attack, keep the totems/buffs you wanted up.

Now, with that said, more spells like those mentioned previously (Soothe, Faerie Fire[don't miss that as a Rogue, though], multi-ranks of abilities such as heals or Frost Bolt to slow, etc) were useful in their own way and I really miss a lot of abilities like those which can show the difference between players of the same class in minute but noticeable ways - especially in PvP. Even in PvE I'm somehow still shocked if I see a Rogue use Distract on a patrol to stop it pulling mid combat even if for me it's a basic utility skill that has always been keybound.

Also, just for the sake of clarity, those 120 keybinds of yours are including arena123(45), focus, etc, because I keybind EVERYTHING and there hasn't been a class that needs more than the current 60 I have.

No, I was not referring to DPS rotations, you are correct. Although some classes could certainly use some more complex DPS rotations *cough DH cough*. Also, Survival Hunter is by far more complicated and harder to play than BM (which, off-topic, is an attrocious AI-centered and horribly designed spec) - even if you only consider the DPS rotations.

When it comes to my keybinds, yes, that was including all targeting binds + spell binds + 1 mount. I did however find an old post of mine saying I had 80 or so binds in MoP... but I know I counted them and got over 120 at another point (but yeah, I edited for the sake of consistency).

[Soisoisoi]

No, I was not referring to DPS rotations, you are correct. Although some classes could certainly use some more complex DPS rotations *cough DH cough*. Also, Survival Hunter is by far more complicated and harder to play than BM (which, off-topic, is an attrocious AI-centered and horribly designed spec) - even if you only consider the DPS rotations.

When it comes to my keybinds, yes, that was including all spell binds + 1 mount. I did however find an old post of mine saying I had 80 or so binds in MoP... but I know I counted them and got over 120 at another point (but yeah, I edited for the sake of consistency).

Definitely agree DH is simple, even if it has it's own little things that edge one player out over another (mostly consists of Fel Rush bugging unfortunately) - though honestly, I do feel BM has more unseen complexity than SV - mostly Titan's Thunder and pet control/positioning (which agrees with what you've said, basically). I just feel SV is too spammy and, well... bleh. Hit every button and keep everything up, the only thing you can mess up is your MB stacks/FotE.

Can I ask what spec you found 80~ keybinds with? Only thing I can think of is a hybrid, like Boomkin or Feral, and including bindings from individual forms? Even then I don't really think they had that many. I got literally every class to 100 and like I said, I always keybind everything.

[RelaZ]

Definitely agree DH is simple, even if it has it's own little things that edge one player out over another (mostly consists of Fel Rush bugging unfortunately) - though honestly, I do feel BM has more unseen complexity than SV - mostly Titan's Thunder and pet control/positioning (which agrees with what you've said, basically). I just feel SV is too spammy and, well... bleh. Hit every button and keep everything up, the only thing you can mess up is your MB stacks/FotE.

Can I ask what spec you found 80~ keybinds with? Only thing I can think of is a hybrid, like Boomkin or Feral, and including bindings from individual forms? Even then I don't really think they had that many. I got literally every class to 100 and like I said, I always keybind everything.

Yes, I agree Survival is far far too spammy and not fun to play. But it's definitely harder to play than BM. However, the complexity and depth shouldn't come from how hard the DPS rotation is, it really should come from all the other stuff (that which has been all but gutted in Legion). Just take a look at the list below and think how much of that is gone today.

Feral, in MoP.

Treant123
Cyclone123
Entangling Roots123
Hibernate123
Maim123
Soothe123
Faerie Fire123
Target123
Focus123
Mighty Bash123
Skull Bash123
Pounce123
Wild Charge123
Wild Charge party1/2
Healing Touch/Rejuvenation/Cenarion Ward (3 binds each - self and party1/2)

and all of those but without arena123/self/party12, I even had some arenapet1/2/3 binds for some CC (hibernate?).

Tranquility
Nature's Grasp
HotW/NV
Barkskin
Survival Instincts
Might of Ursoc
Symbiosis
Typhoon
Dash
Stampeding Roar
etc etc etc

+ rotation spells / dps cds.

I don't think I included multiples of keybind 1-6 (which I share on all forms) - so not counting both Maul and Shred for example.

[Nathasil]

Classes weren't complex before.

I didn't feel more complex with a a buff that I had to use every wipe/every hour or the random "sooth animal".

Or that one spell that I had to use every min, on CD.

More spells =/= more difficult.

pls stop with threads like these.

100% agree. Many specs in Legion feel gutted and unfun, but that has NOTHING to do with the numbers of buttons. Would the current Arms Warrior, for example, feel better if you still had the ability to swap to Berserker+Defensive Stance + the 20 or something abilities that would only be uasable in those stances? No, it would not. You can have an engaging, rewarding playstyle with 4-6 core buttons + 3 situational/CDs....and you can have a complete braindead shitfest of a spec with 12 core buttons + 6 CDs. It is the KIND of buttons that matter.

Compared to previous expansions, Legion for me is a top contender for the most unfun playstyle award. I like the expansion as a whole. But Itemization and core spec gameplay - the bread and butter, if you will - is just not where it should be. Hearing at Blizzcon that they do not intend to make huge class changes this time was really disheartening.

[Soisoisoi]

Yes, I agree Survival is far far too spammy and not fun to play. But it's definitely harder to play than BM. However, the complexity and depth shouldn't come from how hard the DPS rotation is, it really should come from all the other stuff (that which has been all but gutted in Legion). Just take a look at the list below and think how much of that is gone today.

Feral, in MoP.

snip for space

and all of those but without arena123/self/party12, I even had some arenapet1/2/3 binds for some CC (hibernate?).

snip for space

+ rotation spells / dps cds.

I don't think I included multiples of keybind 1-6 (which I share on all forms) - so not counting both Maul and Shred for example.

Completely agree with your sentiment of the gutted spells, like I mentioned earlier - I wouldn't say more abilities make it more difficult in the likes of PvE though, just allow a player who will actually use them to have an advantage in utility (almost useless in boss fights, where most of PvE lies), PvP and 5mans/m+ are a whole different story though.

With that said, back to "rotation" abilities [1m or less to include FoF/FotE/Eye Beam/Artifacts/short CDs], I still believe there's no direct correlation between # of abilities and difficulty of the spec, which is what I was trying to say. I'm actually having trouble coming up with a spec that is "difficult" for comparison... awkward. I mean, Sub Rogue is/has been relatively (to other specs) difficult, right? Lets go with that...

Sub: 7
Havoc: 7/8
BM: 6
SV: 7
Enh: 6/7
Feral: 7
FrostM: 5
FireM: 6

Obviously add in utility/mobility/cooldowns etc. and Sub suddenly jumps to like 27 abilities that are used very often in all circumstances, but even BM jumps to ~24, but arguably most are used far less often than a Rogue's utility would be. Same can be said for most, hybrids especially.

[Daetur]

Earlier today I checked out some of the screenshots on the frontpage (mainly because I was interested in seeing the new zones) when something struck my eye. Some of the screenshots seem to show actual gameplay footage in which you can see some interesting changes to the UI. I'm talking about the change that happened to the action bars (or to be precise: the position of the action bars and the fact that only 2 are enabled by default (compared to three in Legion etc.)). But what really worries me is the fact that in most screenshots and also gameplay videos from Blizzcon nobody seems to be able to fill two action bars. It really saddens me to see what empty husks most classes have become in Legion and I really had hopes for BfA to bring back some of the complexity that we had in previous expansions. Now please bear in mind that all the footage shown is only at level 110 so it might be possible that they introduce a number of spells when we hit max level.
What are you thoughts on this? Do you think classes should stay straightforward or do you want Blizzard to add more complexity when it comes to class mechanics?

We'll have to wait and see. The screenshots from Blizzcon are from people who had a time limit to play the demo- and virtually none of them took the time to move all of their abilities from their spellbooks to their bars, only the things they use consistently. This very well may be a concern, but we'll have to wait until live beta to get a clear picture. Right now you're making assumptions from a situation with unusual circumstances.

[Nerovar]

Completely agree with your sentiment of the gutted spells, like I mentioned earlier - I wouldn't say more abilities make it more difficult in the likes of PvE though, just allow a player who will actually use them to have an advantage in utility (almost useless in boss fights, where most of PvE lies), PvP and 5mans/m+ are a whole different story though.

With that said, back to "rotation" abilities [1m or less to include FoF/FotE/Eye Beam/Artifacts/short CDs], I still believe there's no direct correlation between # of abilities and difficulty of the spec, which is what I was trying to say. I'm actually having trouble coming up with a spec that is "difficult" for comparison... awkward. I mean, Sub Rogue is/has been relatively (to other specs) difficult, right? Lets go with that...

Sub: 7
Havoc: 7/8
BM: 6
SV: 7
Enh: 6/7
Feral: 7
FrostM: 5
FireM: 6

Obviously add in utility/mobility/cooldowns etc. and Sub suddenly jumps to like 27 abilities that are used very often in all circumstances, but even BM jumps to ~24, but arguably most are used far less often than a Rogue's utility would be. Same can be said for most, hybrids especially.

Maybe I wasn't really clear enough in my original post. A certain number of spells alone doesn't make a spec more or less challenging but in WoD/Legion they didn't only prune abilities by outright removing them but also by simplifying abilities and class mechanics. When it comes to complexity it's more about how these spells are intertwined. For example pre-Legion windwalkers had many additional effects on their rotational abilities that gave every ability a unique and distinct functionality and you had to keep track of these things in order to maximize your damage output. Unfortunately they took away many of these things and replaced them with exchangeable cooldown-based abilities that don't really fit the class identity in any way.

Having more 20-45 second CD abilities is not going to make your rotation any more complex because most of the time you press them whenever they're ready and the only thing you have to keep track of is your CDs. Having underlying mechanics and more abilities that require you to know when to use them and actually pay attention to what you're doing adds complexity to your class.
Right now almost every DD spec (especially melees) uses the same builder/spender principle and it's getting to a point where the only things that keep classes distinct are a handful of CDs (like mobility and CC).

[huth]

What are you talking about? Classes were FAR FAR FAR more complex before WoD and most prominently Legion.

More spells = more difficult. If you fail to see this then you are stupid. What's harder chess or checkers? See.

Go is harder than both. Also, simpler than Chess. Complexity does not equal difficulty, and more spells doesn't mean you actually use more of them. Most of the removed spells were only used in edge cases anyway.

This is most certainly not "desperate grasping at straws". The number of buttons most definitely allows a better player to shine, given that no spell is so overpowered that using it is such a no-brainer that it overshadows all other spells (making the number of actively used spells lower than pre-prune). Not everything in this game is about "numbers".

He's talking about the BlizzCon showfloor demo. Not about general gameplay. If you only have 5 minutes to play on what is essentially a fresh install, would you really recreate your entire live keybind setup first?

[Deleted]

I like my Survival Hunter T.T (Though they did made a change in Legion that made it less responsive -Made the Artifact ability part of the GCD-)

Yeah, I play survival on my hunter, too. Apparently they aren't happy with its playstyle anyway, otherwise they wouldn't think about that.
But: I don't really think that this will be a big rework like in legion again. Just some more rotation tweaking.

[Ilir]

What are you talking about? Classes were FAR FAR FAR more complex before WoD and most prominently Legion.

More spells = more difficult. If you fail to see this then you are stupid. What's harder chess or checkers? See. The whole "if I have fewer options then I need to think harder on which one to use" is a stupid argument and is only valid if there's a spell, when more spells are added, that would always be a "nobrainer" to use - which there weren't.

Feral PVP is the most braindead easy it's ever been (bar vanilla). I had 75+ keybinds in MoP, now I have approx 40. It's so mindnumbingly easy to play, and most of all boring. And the funny thing is - the entirety of the PvP community is in agreement on this.



What the fuck makes you think we are talking about vanilla? Are you in the wrong forum or something? This is BfA. People are comparing the demo of BfA (and Legion) to WotLK/Cata/MoP, and even WoD to some degree (even though it was horrific, not as much as Legion - but still).

Soothe had massive uses in PvP (removing enrages and Mass/Spell Reflection), Hibernate had massive uses (Hibernating pets for various reasons, other druids and ghost wolf).

Maybe you should stop writing considering you don't know what you're talking about. You know nothing about PvP or PvP gameplay, so maybe you should stop telling people to "write useless threads" when you don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

I was posting in another thread about Vanilla, that's why my vanilla comment. Sorry about that.

About the rest tho : classes weren't more complex before. I'm still waiting for any proofs of how they were more complex.

And I do have a clue... since you've just repeated what i've said about the pvp shit... but keep trying to make a point.

And still, those spells were just some cc/debuff/buff... it doesn't add any COMPLEXITY. It just adds more options.

So again, prove me how they were more complex.

Also, if you feel that you need to insult someone in order to prove your point... chances are your whole argument is moronic.

[RelaZ]

Go is harder than both. Also, simpler than Chess. Complexity does not equal difficulty, and more spells doesn't mean you actually use more of them. Most of the removed spells were only used in edge cases anyway.

He's talking about the BlizzCon showfloor demo. Not about general gameplay. If you only have 5 minutes to play on what is essentially a fresh install, would you really recreate your entire live keybind setup first?

I'm not talking about difficulty (although WoW could certainly use some increase in difficulty outside of DPS rotations). I'm talking about depth and complexity.

It's fun you brought it up though because either way, complexity = difficulty. It's also great you brought up the Go example, but it shows you don't understand Go or Chess at all. Go is harder than Chess because it is FAR, FAR, FAR more complex. Guess why it's far more complex, because there are a gazillion more MOVES (or options) in Go than in Chess. Translated to WoW the moves/options are mechanics and abilities. Go would be like having one spell with 12312374 modifiers (alt/shift/ctrl etc) each with a different effect and different mechanics built into it - at which point its equivalent to having seventeen 12312374 different spells / mechanics. Chess is like having 12312 different spells / mechanics.

The only time when options =/= complexity (and thus options =/= difficulty) is when a new option grossly overshadows all/a lot of the other options to the point where the effective number of options is lower with the new options. But that's not what anyone's asking for.

And no, I made use of every single spell in my Feral spell book on a daily basis in say MoP. There were no spells in my spell book that only had 'edge case' use. Maybe if you only did PvE and thus only tok part in one part of the game, but if you actually did PvP you'd never say that.

And yes, this thread is about the demo, but it is not about how any trash twitch entertainer couldn't play/set up their UI. It's about what was actually in the spellbook (and how Blizzard resized the action bars to match that). And what that shows is that there's not enough stuff to make for deep, complex and compelling gameplay.

I was posting in another thread about Vanilla, that's why my vanilla comment. Sorry about that.

About the rest tho : classes weren't more complex before. I'm still waiting for any proofs of how they were more complex.

And I do have a clue... since you've just repeated what i've said about the pvp shit... but keep trying to make a point.

And still, those spells were just some cc/debuff/buff... it doesn't add any COMPLEXITY. It just adds more options.

So again, prove me how they were more complex.

Also, if you feel that you need to insult someone in order to prove your point... chances are your whole argument is moronic.

Are you seriously trying to imply cc/debuffs/buffs dont add complexity? Wow... Options are the root cause of complexity. Do you even read what you write?

[huth]

I'm not talking about difficulty (although WoW could certainly use some increase in difficulty outside of DPS rotations). I'm talking about depth and complexity.

It's fun you brought it up though because either way, complexity = difficulty. It's also great you brought up the Go example, but it shows you don't understand Go or Chess at all. Go is harder than Chess because it is FAR, FAR, FAR more complex. Guess why it's far more complex, because there are a gazillion more MOVES (or options) in Go than in Chess. Translated to WoW the moves/options are mechanics and abilities. Go would be like having one spell with 12312374 modifiers (alt/shift/ctrl etc) each with a different effect and different mechanics built into it - at which point its equivalent to having seventeen 12312374 different spells / mechanics. Chess is like having 12312 different spells / mechanics.

And if i give a spec 40 abilities that can only(and must) be used in a predefined order, it is the most complex spec in the game, yet still trivially easy to play because you have literally no option of doing it wrong. I.e. complexity != difficulty.
On the other side you have a spec with a single ability that requires incredibly precise timing. It would be very simple, but also very hard to play.

The only time when options =/= complexity (and thus options =/= difficulty) is when a new option grossly overshadows all/a lot of the other options to the point where the effective number of options is lower with the new options. But that's not what anyone's asking for.

That would actually be the exact opposite. A reduction in difficulty, but an increase in complexity. Precisely because the fact that nobody uses half the options has no impact on complexity, which only cares about whether they exist.

[ComputerNerd]

This is most certainly not "desperate grasping at straws". The number of buttons most definitely allows a better player to shine, given that no spell is so overpowered that using it is such a no-brainer that it overshadows all other spells (making the number of actively used spells lower than pre-prune). Not everything in this game is about "numbers".

As has been made obvious with Blizzard over the years is that what is there in alpha is very likely to stay and not be changed at all.

"it's only alpha" is a horrible excuse when it comes to Blizzard. A more accurate statement would be "alpha is 90% exact replica of release, whatever is in alpha is likely to stay".

The entire judgement was based on the number of buttons seen on the screen, without any consideration for WHY.
Simply because it was a small number.

That is grasping at straws, simple as that.
You decided that a specific set of circumstances consisting of both an early state of the game and a very short duration session was conducive towards a player creating an optimal and final set of keybinds.
Which they are not.

Your excuse was horrible.
You saw what you wanted to see, with the only explanation being what you wanted it to be.

You contradict yourself.
You say it isn't all about numbers, but that is EXACTLY what you base your entire argument on.
It can't be both about and not about numbers at the same time.
Make your mind up.

[Powerogue]

The problem was that "everyone could do anything", meaning that over the expansions blizzard kept adding more and more abilities until we were so bloated we didn't have much reason to bring in a different class or spec for their individual utility. Now by the power of pruning, we once more have that. I can still do all the cool rogue stuff I could before, but those utilities have been chopped into thirds and split where they make the most sense. For example Gouge was completely useless before as all the bleeds and poisons would interrupt it. But now bleeds are in assassination, poisons in subtlety, and I'm here, still having Gouge, but actually being able to make use of it now!

[Nefarious Tea]

Sounds a lot like bs. Even on my aff lock, which is hardly the most complex spec in the game, I have 4 bars bound and filled. 1st bar is for main rotation, 2nd is for cooldowns, consumables and assorted other stuff, 3rd bar is for cc, utility and so on, 4th bar is for mounts, summons, other stuff used occasionally or out of combat. Several of these buttons are macros, but for the most part it's not artificially bloated, none of those buttons are sitting there unpressed in either pve or pvp.

On my alts it's mostly similar, at worst my main bar (with rotational abilities) is not fully filled into "9 0 - +". Mostly on healers, where I click cast main healing spells from an addon anyway and primary is for dps spells (all 3-4 of them) and maintenance/totems/pally flashlight etc.

That's because locks still have a TON of utility and random fluff. My lock has almost four bars filled, too. Some of my toons... don't even need one full.

Regardless, difficulty is not measured by the number of buttons a class has.

[Deleted]

That's because locks still have a TON of utility and random fluff. My lock has almost four bars filled, too. Some of my toons... don't even need one full.

Regardless, difficulty is not measured by the number of buttons a class has.

True. Afflock has more buttons then average if you count all the "fluff", but few people would call its current iteration "hard". That is, doing average damage is really simple - of course doing exceptional damage without going full yolo meter padding is a different matter, but that's par for the course.

In general I hope they give back some fluff abilities, these don't clutter up the main cast bars (since you use them rarely), don't affect balance (by definition) yet are really awesome in those situations when you can be The Guy Who Can do X Best. Like lock down adds on Aggramar with 0% chance of failure from random damage, or clutch HoP, or a raid-wide movement buff etc etc.

And even then, it's maybe not the number of buttons but the number of things they can do, so 1 versatile button > 3 really very niche ones in terms of utility. Like mages, who get iceblock and blink - these two humble abilities alone can do fucking OP things when used well.

[huth]

That's because locks still have a TON of utility and random fluff. My lock has almost four bars filled, too. Some of my toons... don't even need one full.

Regardless, difficulty is not measured by the number of buttons a class has.

Is that really because you can't fill them, or just because you don't play them as much and left some stuff out that you don't need outside of special enviroments like raids or arena?

I've yet to find a class that can get away with only a single bar if you don't constantly want to open your bags for stuff.