Why High Elves are no longer needed to, shouldn't, and NEVER will be an allied race

[Geckoo]

I agree that high elves should never be an allied race once we get void elves, but unless there are bits of lore that we don't know yet... making void elves a faction of exiled blood elves instead of an evolution of current alliance high elves is a bit insulting for those who have been asking for high elves for a long time. Yeah, blood elves with blue eyes, that's what many have been asking for years... and it's fine.

The problem with void elves (and nightborne to a lesser extent) is that you can't just lock them to such a tiny small spectrum of skin tones or hair colors when the original model is on the other faction. I have the feeling that they are trying so hard to make them different that they risk to make them extremely niche. What they lack is more options and by giving more options they could also reach a compromise with people that wants high elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Wrong, they got Blood Elf outcasts.

That High Elves and Blood Elves are racially/biologically 'identical' is just as insignificant as Humans being racially/biologically identical in real life. There are still different 'races'/nations/factions/etc, why? Because culture/history/etc matters much more, and there are clear cultural/historical differences between the two in this regard.

I should add for the benefit of others reading this thread that Obelisk Kai has a good track record of not arguing in good faith re High Elves. I'm sure he's not alone in this regard.

You mistake this talk over playable High Elves as being an argument. This is group therapy for those in denial.

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And Night Elves used to be trolls. Remove trolls from the game.

Yeah but Night Elves mutated from Trolls. If they were actual Trolls you'd have a point.

[Andromedes]

If void elves were actually different, then i wouldnt complain.. But since they are just recolored blood elves with no different body shape or posture, with different hairstyles and earrings, then i feel the high elves lost that spot without an actual reason. I just cant understand how skin color is that big deciding factor why void elves are acceptable and high elves are not.

Void elves are unneeded addition to story of already established conflict between high elves and blood elves. They have little to no culture, and if they have something, it is remain of their blood elven past such as a hawkstrider mount.. Otherwise they live in purple warlock class hall.

[Obelisk Kai]

I agree that high elves should never be an allied race once we get void elves, but unless there are bits of lore that we don't know yet... making void elves a faction of exiled blood elves instead of an evolution of current alliance high elves is a bit insulting for those who have been asking for high elves for a long time. Yeah, blood elves with blue eyes, that's what many have been asking for years... and it's fine.

The problem with void elves (and nightborne to a lesser extent) is that you can't just lock them to such a tiny small spectrum of skin tones or hair colors when the original model is on the other faction. I have the feeling that they are trying so hard to make them different that they risk to make them extremely niche. What they lack is more options and by giving more options they could also reach a compromise with people that wants high elves.

Yeah and then you take away whatever uniqueness remains to the Blood Elves on the other faction. How the hell is that fair?

And I think that you will find that yes, they can and they will lock them to that spectrum of skin tones and hair colours. They are VOID ELVES. This is sort of their thing.

What you have now IS the compromise. If you can't see what a huge leap it was to get the model and still want more, I can't help you.

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If void elves were actually different, then i wouldnt complain.. But since they are just recolored blood elves with no different body shape or posture, with different hairstyles and earrings, then i feel the high elves lost that spot without an actual reason. I just cant understand how skin color is that big deciding factor why void elves are acceptable and high elves are not.

Void elves are unneeded addition to story of already established conflict between high elves and blood elves. They have little to no culture, and if they have something, it is remain of their blood elven past such as a hawkstrider mount.. Otherwise they live in purple warlock class hall.

This has been explained multiple times.

They were never going to give you a clone of a Horde race. Not in terms of looks, or in terms of theme, and High Elves are both. If they were ever going to give you thalassian elves it was always going to be with some sort of twist. I thought it would be intelligent Wretched myself but this is the same sort of thing.

The skin colour is an outward representation of their change of theme. They are not High Elves, even though they used to be, and they refer to High Elves as a different group in their emotes. They don't think of themselves as High Elves or even Blood Elves anymore. Unlike the Blood Elves, there are clear physiological changes representing that. The change in pigmentation. The tentacles. They use the void rather than the light.

You are right when you say Void Elves have no past.

But here is the clincher.

While they have no past, what they do have thanks to all the differences listed above, is a chance to be their own thing. To carve out their own future and their own place.

And in a super ironic turn of events, the group you want to play, the High Elves has precisely the opposite problem. They have a past alright. All they have is a past.
They clearly have no future, something the Void Elves have over them.

And just as Blizzard is never going to give the Alliance a clone of a core Horde race in terms of look and theme, they are never going to give the Alliance a group that can damage their new creations in the Void Elves.

[Caerule]

I'm reasonably convinced Blizzard is going to kill off Vereesa Windrunner, just so there's no true High Elf lore character left that could hope to represent the faction in any sort of united way, thus ending the possibility forever.

[Geckoo]

Yeah and then you take away whatever uniqueness remains to the Blood Elves on the other faction. How the hell is that fair?

And I think that you will find that yes, they can and they will lock them to that spectrum of skin tones and hair colours. They are VOID ELVES. This is sort of their thing.

What you have now IS the compromise. If you can't see what a huge leap it was to get the model and still want more, I can't help you.

Widening up the spectrum does not mean to give them the same skin tones and hair colours blood elves have, but just as death knights or demon hunters have some different skin tones (more rotten or more demonic), void elves could have some options outside their current blueish tones that reflect the void influence in some other way, allowing them to have options that could be more darker or options that could be closer to a regular skin tone with different void features, making it possible to look closer to Alleria instead of looking closer to a skinny Tyrande.

And just as Blizzard is never going to give the Alliance a clone of a core Horde race in terms of look and theme, they are never going to give the Alliance a group that can damage their new creations in the Void Elves.

If it's fine that both factions have exactly the same panda race with exactly the same features... then it would also be fine if both factions had the same elven race with different eye colour.

Not saying that it should happen, just saying if it did, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

[Deleted]

Yeah but Night Elves mutated from Trolls. If they were actual Trolls you'd have a point.

And? Why does that matter?

[Obelisk Kai]

And? Why does that matter?

Because Void Elves are still Elves, if not High or Blood Elves. Trolls are not Elves. Your point does not work in context.

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Widening up the spectrum does not mean to give them the same skin tones and hair colours blood elves have, but just as death knights or demon hunters have some different skin tones (more rotten or more demonic), void elves could have some options outside their current blueish tones that reflect the void influence in some other way, allowing them to have options that could be more darker or options that could be closer to a regular skin tone with different void features, making it possible to look closer to Alleria instead of looking closer to a skinny Tyrande.

Alleria is a High Elf with a void manifestation. She came to her powers by a different means than the Void Elves, and was not transformed the way they were.

And while they COULD do that, they shouldn't. Both to ensure Void Elves are their own thing (and I do not see how offering them options closer to 'regular' skin tones helps that) and to drive home the Void theme.

If it's fine that both factions have exactly the same panda race with exactly the same features... then it would also be fine if both factions had the same elven race with different eye colour.

Not saying that it should happen, just saying if it did, it wouldn't be an issue at all.

I have to use this twice in one thread so i am just copy-pasting what I typed earlier.

"Pandaren were designed as a neutral race and introduced as such. Their entire storyline, if you paid attention during Mists of Pandaria, revolved around themes of harmony and balance in all things, such as harmony and balance between the Alliance and Horde. In contrast, Blood Elves were introduced as a full fledged Horde race.

A neutral race that the Alliance and the Horde both play seems to have been a failed experiment. One developer even publicly stated he felt that they compromised faction distinctiveness too much. While the pro High Elf crowd at the time and since, have pilloried his comments as being from only one developer it is worth nothing that in the five years since Mists of Pandaria Blizzard has introduced no new neutral races. The new Allied races are faction locked."

[Geckoo]

Alleria is a High Elf with a void manifestation. She came to her powers by a different means than the Void Elves, and was not transformed the way they were.

And while they COULD do that, they shouldn't. Both to ensure Void Elves are their own thing (and I do not see how offering them options closer to 'regular' skin tones helps that) and to drive home the Void theme.

So the funny thing about what you are saying is that void elves have literally no background or precedent to base them off. They are a 100% new idea that is going to be defined now.

So you are just defending a few skins from a PTR build...
If those skins had some wraps and void parts like an ethereal then that would be a void elf.
If those skins had regular blood elf tones with void tattoos all over the body.. then that would be a void elf.
If those skins where a blood elf with Alleria's void elf form, then that would be a void elf.

Since now is when we get to define what they are and how they look, why limit the options? the mix of the void and blood elves can be done in many ways, we just saw one of them and is not a bad way to do it, but it shouldn't be the only one.

[Deleted]

Ion said on Jesse Cox's stream that High elves are already Blood elves and that they will never be playable.
I will also never understand people who would die for high elves like mate there are 4 elf races already it's enough.In 2018 Alliance will be flooded with Void elves and Horde pride is already crushed with whooping 40% blood elf race population.

[Obelisk Kai]

So the funny thing about what you are saying is that void elves have literally no background or precedent to base them off. They are a 100% new idea that is going to be defined now.

So you are just defending a few skins from a PTR build...
If those skins had some wraps and void parts like an ethereal then that would be a void elf.
If those skins had regular blood elf tones with void tattoos all over the body.. then that would be a void elf.
If those skins where a blood elf with Alleria's void elf form, then that would be a void elf.

Since now is when we get to define what they are and how they look, why limit the options? the mix of the void and blood elves can be done in many ways, we just saw one of them and is not a bad way to do it, but it shouldn't be the only one.

They can be whatever Blizzard wants them to be. And clearly Blizzard wants them not to be mistaken for a High/Blood Elf. There is little enough distance between them as it stands visually (thematically there is an ocean).

What little difference there is should be preserved and if possible accentuated, not reduced.

[anaxie]

High Elves are already playable, just that they renamed themselves as Blood Elves.

You really don't know why the entire elven race was called Blood Elves do you?

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They can be whatever Blizzard wants them to be. And clearly Blizzard wants them not to be mistaken for a High/Blood Elf. There is little enough distance between them as it stands visually (thematically there is an ocean).

What little difference there is should be preserved and if possible accentuated, not reduced.

There isnt really an ocean of difference.

High Elves are just traitors that spit on their homeland in it's most dire hour.

Thats the Legacy of Veressas group

[Varodoc]

High Elves are already in the game. Ion stated at Blizzcon 2017 that both Blood Elves and Void Elves are flavors of High Elves.

If Blizzard truly wanted to add High Elves in the game, they could just give Void Elves more customizations that let them have a pale look, reminiscent of the High Elves. After all, Lady Alleria Windrunner was seen retaining her High Elven form even after absorbing the Heart of L'ura and becoming a Void Elf. However, it could be that the process Umbric and his followers go through to become Void Elves is vastly different from Alleria's, who was trained directly by the ancient and mysterious Locus-Walker. Time will tell.

The chances of High Elves being playable as an Allied Race in the future are quite slim, but Blizzard did say that the Allied Race system will be expanded upon in the future, so there is still a very tiny chance that High Elves might be added in the future.

[SpookySkeleton]

Thread summary: Some players want a unique pixel to call their avatar while salty blood elf mains shit all over them

[Obelisk Kai]

There isnt really an ocean of difference.

High Elves are just traitors that spit on their homeland in it's most dire hour.

Thats the Legacy of Veressas group

A tin of blueberries without a lablel looks a lot like a tin of beans without a label but once you look at what's inside...

You can't get more thematically distinct than light and shadow.

[Niovi]

Pretty much.

All 'logical' arguments went against Blizzard adding Classic servers, and did so for years, yet Blizzard decided to implement them anyway.

Why? Demand.

I wonder what all these people think now who wrote all the TL;DR posts about why Classic servers, Demonhunters etc. will totally never ever be happen.

[anaxie]

A tin of blueberries without a lablel looks a lot like a tin of beans without a label but once you look at what's inside...

You can't get more thematically distinct than light and shadow.

But those werent traditional high elf alliance lapdogs were they?

[Aeula]

Another point: High Elves can't exist because of Void Elves.

Having two groups of Thalassian elves ON THE SAME FACTION, vying for the spotlight would just be a mess. Blizzard are better off developing the race that is actually at least somewhat unique and brings something different to the Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

But those werent traditional high elf alliance lapdogs were they?

Well that's true, Void Elves are former Blood Elves. And Blood Elves are just renamed High Elves, High Elves in all but name.

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Another point: High Elves can't exist because of Void Elves.

Having two groups of Thalassian elves ON THE SAME FACTION, vying for the spotlight would just be a mess. Blizzard are better off developing the race that is actually at least somewhat unique and brings something different to the Alliance.

Which is probably the plan.

Remember there is nothing wrong with having multiple Allied races using the same model. I would hope for Wildhammer Dwarves in the future for example.

But asking for High Elves on that basis, ignoring everything else, fails to take into account just how exceptional Void Elves and Nightborne are likely to be. They are almost certainly a one off, one time thing for their respective factions.

[Deleted]

Because Void Elves are still Elves

And? So are Night Elves. Not all Elves are the same.