Why do so few people play locks?

[Deleted]

Like LIFE TAP?! I swear to all the gods, whoever thought we wanted to have to spend a GCD taking damage just to get what almost any other caster gets for free (infinite primary resource) deserves a special place in the nether pits.

If Life Tap is removed with no compensation, you'll need a wheelchair for your wheelchair while playing Demo or Destro as you'll be contesting for the shittiest spec on movement with Elemental. As poor as it appears, it gives some on-demand ability to move while restoring mana and the damage is balanced around tapping...

[Halwyn]

If Life Tap is removed with no compensation, you'll need a wheelchair for your wheelchair while playing Demo or Destro as you'll be contesting for the shittiest spec on movement with Elemental. As poor as it appears, it gives some on-demand ability to move while restoring mana and the damage is balanced around tapping...

I don't know if you've been around WoD but Destro didn't have Life Tap at that point. A passive that boosted Mana Regen rate for 650% was all sufficient to keep you sustained, while also forcing you to spend your burning embers at some point, since you couldn't maintain casting without weaving in ember-consuming spells. And for the "on the move" spell, I really liked Fel Flame back in cata. If Blizz decides to make it return while doing less damage, but retaining its signature effect, that will do.

[Biomega]

Life Tap has no mechanical purpose, only a flavor purpose. All its mechanical role is derived from that. No other caster needs a mechanic like it, because all other casters just have infinite primary resource (with the exception of Arcane Mage, for whom mana is more of an additional secondary resource) and the only reason Warlocks do not is so they could keep Life Tap around. That's ludicrous design.

Now, if it was just EMPOWERED Life Tap as an option (with no default Life Tap around) we could perhaps make some design space around that in some form. But the default LT is a contrived, antiquated mechanic kept around for a "flavor" that no one actually enjoys. It's about on the level of Rogue "swirly ball" in terms of nostalgia, and I guarantee you Rogues would go through the roof if they were forced to spend GCDs on that for contrived mechanical reasons.

Personally I liked the Ember Tap model for Destro, and generally Destro in its MoP state. It's a bit tricky to make Destro's class fantasy fit, and the whole "it's not just a Fel Fire Mage" is an entirely reasonable concern. Not sure how to solve that, perhaps mix in more shadow somehow? But I'm sure the PvP people would freak because of school lockouts or whatever.

[xsantos78x]

Affliction is so incredibly boring in raids. Not as bad in Mythic+, but on single target, the constant waiting for Shards and Souls is infuriating, its even worse with the chest piece that gives Soul Harvest chance on Soul Shard use. Its essentially just waiting and pooling until it procs.

Destruction plays exactly like an Elemental Shaman, they share very similar gameplay mechanics, but Shamans have alternative roles to choose, wich is more attractive.

Demo is just borked, its an atrocious design. Its alright in short fights and with IMPLOSION, but without that, theres nothing to it.

I can't get myself to play for very long.
The worst part is, i got a 925 Arcanocrystal with a socket from a Relinquished token.
It breaks my heart to have it on an alt i don't enjoy playing...

The ammount of jealousy in my heart right now is what the warlock class was built upon. Pure Evil.

[cafecito820]

You are not a fire mage with green fire, get over it. Gul'dan uses both fel fire and life drain and soul/shadow magic, as does kil'jaeden.

Warlocks aren't single element mages. They're masters of fel and shadow with curses and debilitating debuffs.

Cool story, but we were talking about spells that are iconic for certain specs. Drain Life is, and always has been, much more of an Affliction icon than anything else.

[Uzkin]

Personally I liked the Ember Tap model for Destro, and generally Destro in its MoP state. It's a bit tricky to make Destro's class fantasy fit, and the whole "it's not just a Fel Fire Mage" is an entirely reasonable concern.

Destro lock and fire mage were very much different from each other back then. Destro was a direct-damage burst spec whereas fire was a fire-dot spec. Fire mages ignited stuff into flames and then intensified and spread that fire to burn down everyone and everything around them. Destro used fire to gradually empower themselves in order to eventually release all that energy in form of massive shadow-damage burst (procs & high mastery + demon Sac + Dark Soul + 3-4 Chaos Bolts back-to-back).*) The fact that both specs dealt lots of fire damage doesn't mean that the two specs were similar; they were not, at all.

*) As a side-note, that play-style ROCKED.. unlike the Legion play-style, which sucks.

[Deleted]

Cataclysm : lock design sucks, LK was better. WTF Blizz ??
MoP : lock design sucks, Cata was better. WTF Blizz ??
Draenor : lock design sucks, MoP was better. WTF Blizz ??
Legion : lock design sucks, Draenor and MoP and Cata were better. WTF Blizz ??

Old story.

[Florida Man]

Haven't touched my lock since WoD, just started giving him attention last week. Surprisingly, I really love it.

I'm usually a fan of mobility, but there's something about being a slow moving invincible (affliction) Warlock that tickles my fancy. I don't even take burning rush, I take the passive buff to soul link I think it's called. I've been questing my ass off and can't remember ever losing any health after multipulling as many mobs as possible.

Now, I might have a totally different opinion when I start raiding, but right now I really like it. Haven't touched demo or destro yet, aff is too much fun for leveling.

[Uzkin]

Cataclysm : lock design sucks, LK was better. WTF Blizz ??
MoP : lock design sucks, Cata was better. WTF Blizz ??
Draenor : lock design sucks, MoP was better. WTF Blizz ??
Legion : lock design sucks, Draenor and MoP and Cata were better. WTF Blizz ??

Old story.

Not quite. Considering only destruction:

Cataclysm: destro design bad
*redesign*
MoP: destro design great
WoD: destro design good
*redesign*
Legion: destro design awful. WTF Blizz?

[Biomega]

MoP : lock design sucks, Cata was better. WTF Blizz ??

You're out of your mind. I doubt there's a time in history lock was loved more than in MoP. In PvE anyway, I don't know shit about PvP.

[cafecito820]

I'm usually a fan of mobility, but there's something about being a slow moving invincible (affliction) Warlock that tickles my fancy. I don't even take burning rush, I take the passive buff to soul link I think it's called. I've been questing my ass off and can't remember ever losing any health after multipulling as many mobs as possible.

I literally thought this exact same thing this morning. I was questing in Argus and just running along multi-dotting mobs with 3-4MM health with zero concerns whatsoever. I could easily get 5-6 at a time, blow one Seed of Corruption, and watch everything fall to hell around me with my Soul Leech barrier still intact.

It's worth not being able to dash around the map for that kind of killing efficiency.

[nToxik]

Just as "iconic" as hunters having to buy arrows for their bow, mages needing reagents for portals/slowfall, and all rogues needing poisons & reagents for those poisons. Etc. Besides, as destro I get zero heals while (properly) doing damage.

Comparing Life Tap to buying arrows or poisons isn't an apples to apples comparison in my opinion. A better comparison would be Warlocks having to go out and collect Soul Shards before a raid compared to hunter ammo/pet food or rogue poisons. Life Tap might be better be compared to Hunter Feign Death or Rogue Stealth as iconic class abilities that the class is known for?

[Deleted]

Not quite. Considering only destruction:

Cataclysm: destro design bad
*redesign*
MoP: destro design great
WoD: destro design good
*redesign*
Legion: destro design awful. WTF Blizz?

MoP design was dumb as f*ck in destro.
One of the most stupid spec ever with the embers filling up faster than light...

Just overpowered, so people loved it... But the design as a spec was far from being "great"

[Baconeggcheese]

@Pheonixlite Yeah I can't more strongly disagree with you, as it was easily one of the best designed specs the game has ever seen.

Also not sure what you mean by "embers filling up faster than light" because ember generation was extremely slow during mop. Maybe you're thinking of wod with charred remains?

[Baconeggcheese]

I do think life tap is iconic to the class, like you go to hearthstone and having lifetap as the lock hero ability fits well and it sacrificing life to draw cards seems like a good fit for what that ability would do in that game.

In WoW though, sacrificing life for mana in a game where no one manages mana anymore doesn't fit the trading life for power fantasy. It doesn't make you feel like you're getting a leg up and becoming more powerful for having used it. If anything it feels like a handicap.

The spell desperately needs to be redesigned into something more compelling that better fits the "trading life for power" fantasy in 2018 wow.

[Lucrece]

Cool story, but we were talking about spells that are iconic for certain specs. Drain Life is, and always has been, much more of an Affliction icon than anything else.

Iconic for certain specs my ass. The spell has been iconic of the warlock class, which precedes the spec. It existed before incinerate was even a thing.

There is nothing iconic to a spec. A spec is a side specialization. It doesn't mean your core warlock tools ought to be shoved to the side just because you want to be a ghetto fire mage.

[Mammon]

I do think life tap is iconic to the class, like you go to hearthstone and having lifetap as the lock hero ability fits well and it sacrificing life to draw cards seems like a good fit for what that ability would do in that game.

In WoW though, sacrificing life for mana in a game where no one manages mana anymore doesn't fit the trading life for power fantasy. It doesn't make you feel like you're getting a leg up and becoming more powerful for having used it. If anything it feels like a handicap.

The spell desperately needs to be redesigned into something more compelling that better fits the "trading life for power" fantasy in 2018 wow.

While I agree with you that Life Tap could be redesigned, I think "trading life for power" could easily become a lame maintenence buff.
Overall, I still like LT as mana management. Sure, it's use boils down to "low on mana → LT", but it's still something. Why have mana if you never have to pay any attention to it?

[Baconeggcheese]

While I agree with you that Life Tap could be redesigned, I think "trading life for power" could easily become a lame maintenence buff.

That's exactly what happened with empowered life tap.

Imo it needs to be some kind of CD, and what that does is up in the air. Just not something that's spammable or convoluted.

Overall, I still like LT as mana management. Sure, it's use boils down to "low on mana → LT", but it's still something. Why have mana if you never have to pay any attention to it?

That's a better argument for the removal of mana than justifying life taps continued existence in this form.

Currently all mana does for dps specs is serve to limit utility spells. Which is a much better use for it in the current climate.

[Biomega]

The problem is that "life for power" is an inherently flawed concept. Either you make it so extreme it's virtually unusable (like idk a massive anti-heal debuff or whatever) or it's practically free because of incoming heals (like LT is now). The only niche where it could work is solo, while restricting self-healing - and that is something that would send people screaming. While I get the class fantasy, the fact that healing keeps reverting back to being topped in a global or two while in raid simply makes it a mechanical issue that I don't see a solution for.

I suppose a main problem is that mana as a resource in general has outlived its usefulness for DPS casters. While it makes sense for healers, every caster except for Arcane Mage and Warlock have gone the way of not caring about mana in any way, shape, or form for their DPS rotation. Secondary resources are a lot more interesting to play with, and it might just be time to scrap non-healer mana altogether. While it's true that you could turn mana into a utility resource for dispels and the like, you could also do that with cooldowns - if you're worried about PvP you can just put the relevant abilities on shared CD with charges, allowing you X uses of any utility ability within a given time. Heck that might even make PvP more interesting in terms of choices you make.

Whatever mechanic Warlocks should have for their "class fantasy" I think it's important it is something PERSONAL - i.e. not something that is completely mitigated just by being in a raid, like "health for power" is. But abilities that involve extremes are rarely fun or balanced; just look at Shadow Priest's Surrender to Madness and how it basically oscillates between OP and completely useless (not to mention how many people rerolled because of it due to RSI concerns or ping issues). I would imagine that any serious health-for-power ability, if it was ever implemented, would fare similarly - being ridiculously OP where it can be abused, and something you just never take when it can't be. I don't see a realistic way for it to ever be fair and balanced.

Maybe Blizzard can just come up with something new? Warlocks are pretty interesting, and they have a lot of lore to explore. What's the deal with demons now, without the Legion? What's going on with the Fel, and what is it, really? What part does the Void play in all of this? Show some effort, design team, and don't simply retreat behind concepts from more than a decade ago like they are written in stone.

[Ragnarohk]

Not everyone plays for logs, class is boring, the non-boring spec is underperforming compared to the ultra boring spec.

Thats the reasoning given for a few years now from a Warlock friend that rerolled long ago but keeps his lock at playable levels.

Same with a few others when they play them as alts, why not play a more fun oriented caster rather than "Keep Agony running, corruption or talent it and yolo, drain soul and drop the shards to UA", how exciting.

I dont see how people find affliction any sort of "enjoyable" playable levels.

You can apply that logic with various specs. Ret paladin comes to mind.