[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Kaleredar]

*snip*

Man you read waaaaay into a movie about space samurai wizards with glowey swords.

If I were a film director I would relish the opportunity to say "what in the holy fuck are you talking about?" to people that cast buzzword aspersions on the films I made.

[Deleted]

my review - complete meh

pacing was off
sub plots were pointless and served no purpose
standard black guy is the comic relief trope
unnecessary number of caricatures it seems to make me want to care about but very little screen time to make me feel attached enough to give a fuck, I cant be the only one who shrugged when the purple haired lady or rose died.
ray still a mary sue kinda worse now we have even less explication for what she can beat every one at everything even though she was a homeless bum.
gross milk thing was more disturbing that the last Logan Paul vid
kilo is still just not a threat
snoke was a joke. literally like what was the point

cinematography was good and the music though so not a dead loss. either way last one ill splash out cinema cash on to watch. i wasn't a big SW fan to begin with preferred my scify more grim and dark, like my characters shades of moral grey and hate the good guy always wins trope.

[Zeta333]

Like how Luke had five minutes of training with obi-wan against a floating beach ball and then blew up the deathstar on his first try?

cus blowing up the deathstar didnt involve much jedi training? Just trusting his instincts.

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Man you read waaaaay into a movie about space samurai wizards with glowey swords.

If I were a film director I would relish the opportunity to say "what in the holy fuck are you talking about?" to people that cast buzzword aspersions on the films I made.

cus its not just a movie about samurai wizards, and people like you that say shit like that and brush it off as such are the problem.

[Deleted]

also not sure the script writes really understand how gravity works or space or the human body when blasted into a void.

[Jastall]

If there's one thing sillier than taking Star Wars too seriously, it's ascribing an entirely too detailed political motive to some dumb movie about kung fu wizards fighting space nazis in explosive vacuums.

[Deleted]

If there's one thing sillier than taking Star Wars too seriously, it's ascribing an entirely too detailed political motive to some dumb movie about kung fu wizards fighting space nazis in explosive vacuums.

yea but you forget the main audience are the type with shitty lives so like to escape into a fandom so it gets personal when people fuck it up.

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either way all the comments about SJW stuff aside it was a poor movie by most milestones

[Aurrora]

Library can refer to the location of a collection of books or the collection itself. Yoda's words could mean the books themselves are worthless.

Yes, but given the context that there's a burning tree library in front of him and we see the books later on the Falcon I think it's safe to guess he was talking about the tree not containing anything she needed.

[Kaleredar]

cus blowing up the deathstar didnt involve much jedi training? Just trusting his instincts.

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cus its not just a movie about samurai wizards, and people like you that say shit like that and brush it off as such are the problem.

No, it's a movie about samurai space wizards. You'd do best not to forget that.

So if I come away from the film feeling it was a fun good time with cool sci-fi stuff, I'd call that movie a success.

[Aurrora]

Rey was very competent at killing. If you disagree with that we did indeed watch very different movies. Note the fight against Snoke's guards.

Pretty sure Rey's got the most brutal kill in a Star Wars movie now.

[Tackhisis]

also not sure the script writes really understand how gravity works

Have you ever seen zero-g in Star Wars? It is pretty much a solved problem there.

[Kaleredar]

Yes, but given the context that there's a burning tree library in front of him and we see the books later on the Falcon I think it's safe to guess he was talking about the tree not containing anything she needed.

Pretty sure Yoda was referring to the fact that Luke needed to move past holding on to his past failures and move forward by helping the rebellion while conveying the notion that Rey is moving forward in her training of the force without the past dragging her down, which Luke felt was a problem with the Jedi.

In reality because the books weren't actually destroyed Rey will likely be able to approach the knowledge those books contain with a more contemporary and less dogmatic approach; an approach which had effectively lead to the end of the Jedi order.

[Nefarious Tea]

Hold up, does TLJ even pass the Bechdel test? When Leia and Holdo talk, it's about Poe. When Leia and Rey talk, it's about Luke.

The Bechdel test is stupid anyway. Gods forbid two main characters talk about another main character. The only way a movie can actually pass it is if every character in a film is a woman.

[Fayolynn]

Yes, but given the context that there's a burning tree library in front of him and we see the books later on the Falcon I think it's safe to guess he was talking about the tree not containing anything she needed.

yeah, most likely. just pointing out it could mean the books are worthless.

[OrcsRLame]

Pretty sure Yoda was referring to the fact that Luke needed to move past holding on to his past failures and move forward by helping the rebellion while conveying the notion that Rey is moving forward in her training of the force without the past dragging her down, which Luke felt was a problem with the Jedi.

In reality because the books weren't actually destroyed Rey will likely be able to approach the knowledge those books contain with a more contemporary and less dogmatic approach; an approach which had effectively lead to the end of the Jedi order.

Actually, what specifically lead to the end of the Jedi order, was not following tradition and ignoring the principles that the Jedi stand for. Mace Windu was too attached to his love of the Republic, which is why he tried to murder Palpatine. If he didn't do that, Anakin would have sided with him, they would have arrested Palpatine, Anakin would have never fallen and the Jedi wouldn't have been destroyed. Mace Windu ignored Yoda's advice to Anakin, and it cost everyone dearly. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose. Mace Windu did not do that and that's why the Jedi died.

[eschatological]

Rey was very competent at killing. If you disagree with that we did indeed watch very different movies. Note the fight against Snoke's guards.

Holdo and Leia may not have been wise, but wisdom in general is not really an idea central to feminism. The only time wisdom enters the equation is in relation to how men and women interact. It's wise for men to listen to women, and wisdom is a feminine trait even if it's not the focus of feminism. As unwise as Leia and Holdo may have been in certain ways, Poe was doubly unwise, particularly when it comes to conflicting ideas.

Rey is competent at killing. What she's not competent at is being a good person. That's kind of the point, no? She's impatient, she thinks she knows everything, she thinks (much like Luke did in ESB) that she can turn Kylo. She's arrogant, to a fault. And she walks straight into Kylo's trap because of it. In fact, I'd say her ease with killing is a huge flaw in re: what a heroic protagonist is "supposed to be."

As for the interaction between Poe and Holdo, I don't see it as gender-based. If Ackbar had replaced Holdo in the same storyline, it would have had the exact same impact. IE, the theme was more about negating the impulsiveness of the solo hero's journey. About saying that the harebrained scheme is really harebrained, and not the stuff of legends. About putting the long-term common good above the immediate, heroic victory.

[ablock87]

See, you could have just said that, but you felt the need to sperg out and start throwing out buzzwords like they were going out of style. I swear people like you have no sense of what is and isn't a proportional response. See somebody at like a 4 disagreeing with you, instantly ratchet things up to a 10. Just makes no sense to me.

Secondly, all I was doing was pointing out, (in a mildly condescending way I admit) that the people on mmo-champion and people that are uneducated about feminist theory are the only ones that don't see how TLJ is a feminist film.

Allow me to break it down.

First off, The Last Jedi was a film made by feminists for feminists. Exhibit A, Kathleen Kennedy, the producer, just hanging out with other people that worked on the movie.



But does their feminist agenda come through in the movie? I think it does, and so do a lot of feminists and anti-feminists. So let's talk characters. Kylo, Hitler General Guy, (I forget his name) and even Poe, are like perfect pictures of the feminist conception of Toxic Masculinity. Let's take a look at Kylo, he's every bad male stereotype that exists within the feminist ideology. He has an anger problem, prone to fits of violent rage. Any questioning of his dominance or authority leads to him instantly lashing out as if he has the world's smallest penis. And this violence is framed by the idea that Kylo is trying to live up to the image of Darth Vader, as if he's not a real man if he can't be as badass as Vader. We see this torment Kylo a great deal. One of his primary character traits is worrying about not being masculine enough. Sure, Vader and other Star Wars villains were violent and evil, but none of them had identity issues in the same way that Kylo does. None of them were uncomfortable with their masculinity. Kylo clearly is. This suffering Kylo puts himself through jives quite well with the idea that the Patriarchy hurts men too. Kylo needs feminism, to tell him that it's okay to not be masculine.

Rey is the perfect feminist hero. Her main character trait is that she is powerful; and not powerful in the same way that Yoda was powerful. Rey is competent at killing people; and this is portrayed as a virtue. Sure, Luke was badass, but his competence at killing was not ultimately what defined him. In the end, it was his belief in the fundamental good of the human spirit and a commitment to non-violence that lead to him triumphing over Palpatine. As Yoda said, war does not make one great.

But you can forget what Yoda said, because Rey does not need the ancient wisdom of men. There's nothing useful there that she doesn't already possess. Paraphrase of Yoda. So Rey is a good hero because she can kill, and she does not need the wisdom of the male dominated hierarchies that came before her.

This post is long enough already and I got shit to do tonight so I will be more brief with the rest of this. Note I could say a lot more on these next parts.

The casino planet was a transparent critique of Capitalism and hierarchy. I find a particular quote by radfem Robin Morgan to be very salient here. "I feel that "man-hating" is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." - Robin Morgan. It's intersectionality, multiple layers of oppression based on identity. Women are oppressed and poor people are oppressed, so if you're a poor woman you're double oppressed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality Fyi, shit like this is why anti-SJWs and anti-feminists often accuse feminism of flirting with communism. I could change the Robin Morgan quote to 'hating the rich' instead of 'man-hating', say that Trotsky or Stalin said it, and most people would not look twice at it.

Every time Poe, the straight white man, did not listen to, believe and obey women, he fucked everything up and got people killed, because the wisdom of women is superior. Contrast this with Rey not needing the ancient wisdom of men.

QFT. This is really well said.

In the interest of following the moderator's guidance, I think we can just say we disagree and it's a semantic argument anyway.

Meanwhile, I find it amusing that you have called me out for snark and keep tossing condescension my way, but get responses like this from others...

Comical that you take his well-reasoned argument and boil it down to "Hurr semantics"

[Prokne]

I saw the movie the other day and can't believe critics can say it was good. Maybe if all you like are CGI action scenes, it was good, but like a lot of modern movies it lacks a lot of substance.

First the plot is horrible - a slow chase until a spaceship runs out of gas so the bad guys can catch up to it. And there is no constant threat like other First Order ships showing up or troops trying to board, it's just "well I guess we'll keep doing this for a day until they run out of gas, no time for them to do anything to stop us."

Second, there is no character development. Po is the same at the beginning of the movie as he is at the end because he isn't really punished for getting a lot of people killed. Finn reverts back to some earlier version of himself and ends in the same place as he was in at the end of the first movie. Rey gets absolutely zero training and we have no idea why she is so powerful that she can do whatever she wants with the force (hopefully this will be explained in the next movie, although it would have been the right time to do it here when she meets the last good person that knows the force).

The story is basically a mashup of some plot points of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi with a few small differences because there has to be a next movie. It's like they didn't learn from TFA not to copy the original movie plots.

Too many times when someone is saved by luck or the right thing happening at the right time because otherwise they would fail.

Then there are the Star Wars problems like how the force makes you a wizard that can do basically anything you want. Leia using the force with no background as to her being trained to use it or no explanation of how she knows how to use it. Stupid humor. The movie is called The Last Jedi, but Rey is going to become a Jedi.

The movie dragged and I was just waiting for it to be over about half way through. It didn't really feel like a Star Wars movie. It had Star Wars characters, but it was like they put those characters in Guardians of the Galaxy.

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The original trilogy implies very heavily that the Force is something that runs in families.

This is true; however, there is no mention of either Obi-Wan or Yoda having children. If they did and they became Jedi and were killed by Vader and the Emperor, you would think those characters would mention it. In the prequels, one of the Jedi rules is that they don't have children.

Now, it is possible that the Jedi don't have children, but their siblings who are not Jedi do and their children are strong in the force. However, I don't know of any Jedi that are related except Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader (and Kylo Ren who is Luke's nephew, so one family). Even the Sith don't seem to prefer their own children (if they have them) over others as apprentices.

So, I was interested in Rey's parents from a pure background perspective, but it isn't necessary that her parents be Jedi in order for her to be strong with the force.

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Every time Poe, the straight white man, did not listen to, believe and obey women, he fucked everything up and got people killed, because the wisdom of women is superior. Contrast this with Rey not needing the ancient wisdom of men.

Maybe it's because I was in the military, but all those women that Poe disobeyed outranked him. They have those ranks because they have experience. There really is no reason why an admiral should have to tell a captain her plan. IMO it was a young, impetuous person disobeying a superior officer because he thought he knew better and he didn't. I've seen that a lot.

Really, the admiral messed up by not putting Poe in the brig or confining him to his quarters when it was obvious he would be disobedient. AND he wasn't even punished at the end of the movie for getting half of the remaining rebels killed.

[Zeta333]

Maybe it's because I was in the military, but all those women that Poe disobeyed outranked him. They have those ranks because they have experience. There really is no reason why an admiral should have to tell a captain her plan. IMO it was a young, impetuous person disobeying a superior officer because he thought he knew better and he didn't. I've seen that a lot.

Really, the admiral messed up by not putting Poe in the brig or confining him to his quarters when it was obvious he would be disobedient. AND he wasn't even punished at the end of the movie for getting half of the remaining rebels killed.

I to dress in a gown when im a fleet admiral.

[tyrlaan]

The Bechdel test is stupid anyway. Gods forbid two main characters talk about another main character. The only way a movie can actually pass it is if every character in a film is a woman.

Yes, I agree the Bechdel test is not that great, but having no male characters in a film is not the "only way" to pass it.

Second, there is no character development. Po is the same at the beginning of the movie as he is at the end because he isn't really punished for getting a lot of people killed. Finn reverts back to some earlier version of himself and ends in the same place as he was in at the end of the first movie. Rey gets absolutely zero training and we have no idea why she is so powerful that she can do whatever she wants with the force (hopefully this will be explained in the next movie, although it would have been the right time to do it here when she meets the last good person that knows the force).

No character development? By the end of the film, while I agree it would have been nice to see some harsher punishment for Poe, it's conveyed that he's learned his lesson. Just compare his demeanor between the bombing run fight and the Crait fight. He calls the Crait fight off when he starts getting worried about casualties.

How is Finn the same at the start and end? At the start he's looking to bail on the alliance just to go find/help his friend Rey. He doesn't care much about their cause other than they're not the First Order. Over the course of the movie he finds purpose and meaning with staying with the rebels.

Rey starts the movie as someone hoping destiny will sweep her up and give her purpose, constantly leaning on others to show her what she should be doing and who she should become. By the end of the film, these notions are shattered and she is coming to grips with the reality that her fate is in her hands only.

Maybe it's because I was in the military, but all those women that Poe disobeyed outranked him. They have those ranks because they have experience. There really is no reason why an admiral should have to tell a captain her plan. IMO it was a young, impetuous person disobeying a superior officer because he thought he knew better and he didn't. I've seen that a lot.

Really, the admiral messed up by not putting Poe in the brig or confining him to his quarters when it was obvious he would be disobedient. AND he wasn't even punished at the end of the movie for getting half of the remaining rebels killed.

Agree with all of this (other than not being in the military myself )

[Orange Joe]

I to dress in a gown when im a fleet admiral.

Are you also part of a fictional world with it's own dress code? if not what make such an idiotic statement?