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  1. #21
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Increase in buffs happens in a patch and that when it shouldn't doesn't matter much but I don't see really why it needs to be changed and addons make it possible.
    Addons do not fix the debuff problem... It was a hard limit, not just the number that showed up in the UI, a creature literally could not have more than the specified number of debuffs on it at any one time.

    I'm honestly convinced this only existed as a thing to help with server strain.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2018-01-05 at 04:38 AM.
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  2. #22
    The Patient Chakah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfolk View Post
    This is the tricky part.
    Either you fix stuff, to an extend that it may end not being Vanilla anymore, or you accept Vanilla as it was at 100%
    I think its been 24 hours since I read a slippery slope argument...

    https://pierres.com/five-vanilla-ice...g-but-vanilla/

    This is the time for all kinds of crazy ideas.... don't worry, the Blizzard devs will make sure it all works out.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Addons do not fix the debuff problem... It was a hard limit, not just the number that showed up in the UI, a creature literally could not have more than the specified number of debuffs on it at any one time.

    I'm honestly convinced this only existed as a thing to help with server strain.
    Thank god. Needs to advance in the patch cycle. I am very happy you pointed out that this needs to remain 100% vanilla.

  4. #24
    So here's another question then.

    If something can be done with an addon that already exists (enemy cast bars, focus tagets/macro) why not just implement them? Because eventually they will become mandatory for anyone who takes the game seriously.

    And I agree with the people saying that removing the debuff limit doesn't really change the gameplay at all. Sure fights might be slightly quicker because you'll do more damage, but it doesn't change any mechanics of fights nor does it make any of them easier. All Blizzard would have to do is slightly tune boss health to be higher.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    So here's another question then.

    If something can be done with an addon that already exists (enemy cast bars, focus tagets/macro) why not just implement them? Because eventually they will become mandatory for anyone who takes the game seriously.

    And I agree with the people saying that removing the debuff limit doesn't really change the gameplay at all. Sure fights might be slightly quicker because you'll do more damage, but it doesn't change any mechanics of fights nor does it make any of them easier. All Blizzard would have to do is slightly tune boss health to be higher.
    Removing the limit will change how fights play out and will also lead to massive imbalances that were not there befor.
    How is this good in any way?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Removing the limit will change how fights play out and will also lead to massive imbalances that were not there befor.
    How is this good in any way?
    What massive imbalances are you talking about? Please elaborate.


  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    What massive imbalances are you talking about? Please elaborate.
    Classes that rely on dots and debuffs will be made a lot stronger than they were so the overall balance will change meaning that they will actually have to rebalance pretty much every spec.
    It also means that classes that were not take to raids will be taken instead of the ones that used to and the feeling of playing vanilla will be gone.

    This is one of the many reasons why classic needs to be just vanilla without any changes to the game or how it works save for fixing crashes and such.

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Classes that rely on dots and debuffs will be made a lot stronger than they were so the overall balance will change meaning that they will actually have to rebalance pretty much every spec.
    It also means that classes that were not take to raids will be taken instead of the ones that used to and the feeling of playing vanilla will be gone.

    This is one of the many reasons why classic needs to be just vanilla without any changes to the game or how it works save for fixing crashes and such.
    That has to be the dumbest thing i've ever heard. So because your raid isn't filled to the brim with rogues, mages and warriors, then it doesn't feel vanilla anymore?
    If this is the criteria to "feel" vanilla then no wonder people can't take you guys serious.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    That has to be the dumbest thing i've ever heard. So because your raid isn't filled to the brim with rogues, mages and warriors, then it doesn't feel vanilla anymore?
    If this is the criteria to "feel" vanilla then no wonder people can't take you guys serious.
    Of course thats part of it.
    If your class does not feel like it did back then, then it's not the same game.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    So here's another question then.

    If something can be done with an addon that already exists (enemy cast bars, focus tagets/macro) why not just implement them? Because eventually they will become mandatory for anyone who takes the game seriously.
    Regarding Vanilla i consider myself a purist, but not a fanatic. Personally i wouldn's be against things like enemy cast bar just being implemented. One thing that we shouldn't forget though is that vanilla has a high addon customization factor, meaning that you decided what and how much you actually wanted to have, i kinda find this appealing when i play it, probably other do to. The principle is that they give you a baseline with the very basic and you tweak it as much as you want.

    Then again the discussion will happen, how much is too much? Is this tweaking factor that important? Will the game lose much if that customization is lost? They all seem interesting and relevant points of discussion to me.

  11. #31
    Another big one is debuffs not appearing on enemy name plates. Even TBC doesn't support this, making playing DoT classes like SPriest and Affliction lock that much less intuitive.
    Also the range in which name plates are drawn on screen is about half of that on retail. I've been in groups where a tank has marked mobs with skull/cross, etc. and lost aggro to DPS who haven't realised mobs were marked at all as they were just a few yards outside of draw distance when standing at max range.

    Not massive issues, but takes some time to get used to.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    One thing that we shouldn't forget though is that vanilla has a high addon customization factor
    Sadly addons can't achieve what's not available through the API and the likes of cast bars and DoTs not showing is not something they can fix unless Blizzard update to allow as much.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post

    Sadly addons can't achieve what's not available through the API and the likes of cast bars and DoTs not showing is not something they can fix unless Blizzard update to allow as much.
    You have addons that have enemy cast bars, they aren't perfect though, just a visual aid, most of them if you interrupt for example the cast bar keeps going and things like that. Dots are several that do a proper job at it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    You have addons that have enemy cast bars, they aren't perfect though, just a visual aid, most of them if you interrupt for example the cast bar keeps going and things like that. Dots are several that do a proper job at it.
    In Vanilla WoW or retail? Care to list a few examples? I'm playing SPriest on TBC atm and even ElvUI can't do either. Would certainly make my life easier.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Jyggalag View Post
    In Vanilla WoW or retail? Care to list a few examples? I'm playing SPriest on TBC atm and even ElvUI can't do either. Would certainly make my life easier.
    I use this and it covers almost all my needs http://shagu.org/pfUI/

    It's for vanilla though, dunno how and if it behaves in bc.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    I use this and it covers almost all my needs http://shagu.org/pfUI/

    It's for vanilla though, dunno how and if it behaves in bc.
    Ah nice one. I've played with this on Vanilla before actually but wasn't aware of cast bars/dot timers. Thank you kind sir - this has certainly helped put my mind at ease.

  16. #36
    The debuf limit is needed I think. Vanilla raiding already has far fewer boss mechanics you have to pay attention to as a debuffer and managing who was allowed what curse and trying to figure out which of your 40 idiots killed the curse of elements again gave raid leaders something to do, while pressing frost bolt. In general, I like mechanics where you had to talk to each other in order to suceed.

    Removing it also would mean that the game will get easier or that you have to rebalnce the content. Both of which are I would like to avoid, at least for the first iterations.
    Last edited by owbu; 2018-01-05 at 11:12 AM.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    The debuf limit is needed I think. Vanilla raiding already has far fewer boss mechanics you have to pay attention to as a debuffer and managing who was allowed what curse and trying to figure out which of your 40 idiots killed the curse of elements again gave raid leaders something to do, while pressing frost bolt.
    Removing it also would mean that the game will get easier or that you have to rebalnce the content. Both of which are I would like to avoid, at least for the first iterations.
    They either keep a debuff limit of sorts or they'll have to balance boss fights... Debuff limit like it or not was a boss balance method... so yeah totally agree

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Classes that rely on dots and debuffs will be made a lot stronger than they were so the overall balance will change meaning that they will actually have to rebalance pretty much every spec.
    It also means that classes that were not take to raids will be taken instead of the ones that used to and the feeling of playing vanilla will be gone.

    This is one of the many reasons why classic needs to be just vanilla without any changes to the game or how it works save for fixing crashes and such.
    Yeah, I personally enjoyed having to fight with 7 other rogues for 1 piece of loot every week. Diversity is good for the raid and the players. If something as simple as removing the debuff limit can change raid composition then it's a good change.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    Yeah, I personally enjoyed having to fight with 7 other rogues for 1 piece of loot every week. Diversity is good for the raid and the players. If something as simple as removing the debuff limit can change raid composition then it's a good change.
    Thing is, they have to retune the entire game if they do.
    It would not be the same game then.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Thing is, they have to retune the entire game if they do.
    It would not be the same game then.
    I have to wonder if you even played Vanilla, because as someone who cleared Vanilla content I can tell you right now that you have no idea how bad tuning was in Vanilla in the first place. So how is it a bad thing that Blizzard would have to go back and look into re-tuning fights?

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