Mythic + and why you shouldn't expect to get invited with low score

[xcess]

I have a question to you all - not

However, I started to play Legion very late - dinged es) I got my first +10 (Keystone master achievement). The run wor higher keys - but 95% I get rejected. Too many people are at a e / skill of the player.

How I am supposed to increase my item level within a reasonable time frame if I get mostly rejected for dungeons that drop the gear I need?

Fastest would be joining a new guild, can always go back to your old one when they come back. Just run normal raid and the first few heroics, get lucky with tf and itll skyrocket your ilvl. Raid people usually just choose highest ilvl whereas mythic+ a lot will look at score. You could buy a heroic raid run once which should really help you to fasttrack. The higher you get your ilvl the easier it is to get into things that will give you more chances at higher ilvl gear

[Hoeth]

Every time I create a group, and take people with "limited" experience (aka, no 15s for this char, grey rating, etc) but a correct ilvl, it result to a downgrade of the key.
Each time I take people with experience (~1700-2000 score), the run is going smoothly.

Same experience for me.

Of course more DPS/HP makes things easier, but a group can still clear almost any +19-20 dungeon in time with a group ilvl of 930-940 IF they know where not to stand, which mobs to CC, which casts to interrupt, how to deal with each affix for each particular situation, etc. The same group with 960 ilvl that doesn't know to pop a defensive CD on the second roar (if it goes off) of the two bears before the first boss in DHT, for example, or doesn't know to stack close for the Fel Rush on the second boss in BRH, is going to have people die, which means that 960 group ilvl is now effectively cut by 20%.

So aside from quizzing every single applicant for my group about the dungeon we are attempting, relying on raiderIO to show me what each person has done is a much better solution than just hoping for the best or having to explain everything right before each engagement without voice. I am not willing to have my +19 key downgraded due to taking a chance on a random player and having them fuck up repeatedly, when I can greatly lower the chance of such a fuck up by choosing players that have done the dungeon at a similar level in time on multiple occasions.

Most people wouldn't expect to get an invite to a mythic progression raid without experience and/or some demonstration of skill, and I don't know why some expect a different situation for high level keys. I understand the frustration for those people, even mythic raiders, just trying to get their one +15 in for the week, but in that case you honestly shouldn't have too hard a time finding a single +14-+15 pug once a week.

[HuxNeva]

I have a question to you all - not intended to be toxic at all, but rather a plea for guidance and perhaps to illuminate one of the main issues I'm facing.

I am an experienced player - been playing since vanilla - 400 days played - and was a hardcore 'server first' raider for most of this period. I am definitely not a super player, but I know what I'm doing and I am very much accustomed to reading tactics in advance, simming my character, using buffs, boss mechanics etc.

However, I started to play Legion very late - dinged 110 with my mage about six weeks ago. Today, I have 930 itemlvl (most of them relinquished pieces) and 2 legendaries. My guild is mostly dead now but I wouldn't like to join another guild so I am pretty much playing solo. I started doing Mythic + a couple of weeks ago and yesterday (after like 7-8 rejected invites) I got my first +10 (Keystone master achievement). The run was smooth and we had no problems.

I know that 930 is perfectly fine for +10 - even for higher keys - but 95% I get rejected. Too many people are at a higher ilevel now and people's expectations are sky high. Some people are asking for 940-950 for anything above +5 !!. Obviously, the item level masks the actual experience / skill of the player.

How I am supposed to increase my item level within a reasonable time frame if I get mostly rejected for dungeons that drop the gear I need?

Hi there. Yes, coming late to the party is always a bit of a struggle.

The best advice is indeed to start running your own key. As dps it will take a while, I know. But if you have a smooth run chances are people will stay and run your next key.

It is important to understand that you are not getting rejected, it just that others are presenting better in the group finder. You might feel/know ready for higher keys, but you are competing with others that feel/know the same AND have the record to show it.

So for building your 'resume' . Know what people look for.
Don't focus on ilvl. If I, and i suspect most others that are serious, make groups, I don't even look at it.
Do try to run the dungeons that you want to run at as high a level as possible.
Previous lvl you succeeded the specific dungeon on is the number one signal, followed by highest key completed overall.
Only after that will M+ score come into the picture.

Happy hunting!

[Jaewalk]

M+ Score is the best thing ever. I love how people say “i invited a 3k score dude and he sucked” ... never happened to me- in fact quite the opposite as to the great players I’ve seen seem to corrolate to their m+ score especially above 3k.

It has made forming good groups quick and easy all while avoiding trash players for the most part.

Sorry, i invested in my toon. I’ve run all of the dungeons on my MAIN only want others like me in my group... not some trash toon who bought their AOTC.

[Enentari]

Sorry, i invested in my toon. I’ve run all of the dungeons on my MAIN only want others like me in my group... not some trash toon who bought their AOTC.

And how about pple who bought their keys for less than 100k g?

[ID811717]

And how about pple who bought their keys for less than 100k g?

There are only so many keys you can buy.
Are you ready to buy like 5 high runs in each of 13 dungeons (65 runs total), so your wowprogress/raider.io profile even starts to look legit?

[Veiled Shadow]

And how about pple who bought their keys for less than 100k g?

Even on a highly populated server, a +15 carry costs well over 100k, and if you are looking to be boosted in, say, Seat, then it will almost certainly cost far more than this. Moreover, even doing +15 in all dungeons nets you only ~2200 score IIRC, and the post you are responding to specifically mentions players with 3k.

[Enentari]

Even on a highly populated server, a +15 carry costs well over 100k

On mine (Hyjal) it's 90k average, and the cheaper is 60k. So yeah, well over you said?^^

Moreover, even doing +15 in all dungeons nets you only ~2200 score IIRC, and the post you are responding to specifically mentions players with 3k.

And 2200 is far more than you even need to do a simple +15... You can buy AOTC the same way you can buy or PL your MM+ score, I was responding to that.

[keedorin]

So what other achievements do you mean? Keymaster from people who got carried once? Keymaster from 12 months and three dungeon changes before? Mythic Raiding achievements and then watching the player die to random shit because he didn't know that it will kill him? There is still nothing wrong with LFG, there are still plenty learning groups or groups without score. Apply to them, not to the 2,7k+ score group.

You know I was just like you once. When people were constantly saying they couldn't get into groups with AOTC, I would just tell them to stop applying to groups with AOTC requirements; however, I soon learned that even the groups that didn't require AOTC put a huge preference on the people with AOTC, so they rarely ever got invites. So the next step was to make their own groups.

Unfortunately, the same applies for M+ and you can't make your own groups when you don't have the key for the dungeon you want. I think it's kind of hilarious how you assume that I only apply to 2.7k+ score groups. I honestly just want to finish my 15+ for the week, I don't care if the key gets depleted or not, but I know I'm not one of the scrubs who dies to everything. I have great raid awareness, and I prove it from my raiding accomplishments. However, even at 960 Ilvl, it's very difficult to get into a M 15+ group. It would take me about an hour to get into a 15+ group due to my M+ score. Obviouslly, I should increase my M+ score if I want to get into groups faster, but it honestly shouldn't be like that since there's really no incentive to doing a lot of M+ dungeons like it is for PVP...

I have never depleted a 15+ key ever since I came back, but due to my M+ score, it takes way too long to find a group when they should just look at my recent M+ attempts.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I have a question to you all - not intended to be toxic at all, but rather a plea for guidance and perhaps to illuminate one of the main issues I'm facing.

I am an experienced player - been playing since vanilla - 400 days played - and was a hardcore 'server first' raider for most of this period. I am definitely not a super player, but I know what I'm doing and I am very much accustomed to reading tactics in advance, simming my character, using buffs, boss mechanics etc.

However, I started to play Legion very late - dinged 110 with my mage about six weeks ago. Today, I have 930 itemlvl (most of them relinquished pieces) and 2 legendaries. My guild is mostly dead now but I wouldn't like to join another guild so I am pretty much playing solo. I started doing Mythic + a couple of weeks ago and yesterday (after like 7-8 rejected invites) I got my first +10 (Keystone master achievement). The run was smooth and we had no problems.

I know that 930 is perfectly fine for +10 - even for higher keys - but 95% I get rejected. Too many people are at a higher ilevel now and people's expectations are sky high. Some people are asking for 940-950 for anything above +5 !!. Obviously, the item level masks the actual experience / skill of the player.

How I am supposed to increase my item level within a reasonable time frame if I get mostly rejected for dungeons that drop the gear I need?

I appreciate how you approached this question. There are always tricks to gearing up, some you can do solo and some that are easier with guild or friends. Argus is Blizz's #1 catchup atm. The vendor gear is 910 but can WF and this can be used to shore up your weak spots. The weekly greater invasion is a shot at 930 loot. Even at 930ish, you should be able to find N Antorus groups where you can fish for tier and TF upgrades.

Lastly, my #1 piece of advice is to build a rollodex (testing your RL age now ), i.e. contact list of people you'd like to run M+ with. Every time you have a successful run, add the better members of that group to friends list. Get with them on Tuesdays to see who has what keys and make plans to run them together.

I am in the position of having gear (965) but only a mediocre score (1710) because I've never paid attention to it before. I am kind of excited about it, because it gives me a new goal to work on and new ways to progress. What I am doing is inviting 4 of those friends to form a regular team with good basic comp to get more ambitious with keys. We plan to run twice a week. We have a discord channel just for this, with reference sources for every dungeon so we can really dial in what needs interrupting and so on. We may not be running WF+30s right away, but guarantee you our scores will go up and we will have fun doing it.

[Honik]

M+ score will be relevant only if the addon starts ingame tracking of what dungeons you finished. Otherwise its shiet

[powerpigs]

The difference in week to week is pretty ridiculous and adds to the "mythic+ Zerg" that blizzard is trying to lessen with the latest changes (dame amount of loot if you beat timer and more loot per key level.

Take this week. In pugs it's sometimes better to just a ton of tiny mobs and try and kill them rather than try and stagger kill a 20 set of crabs in a pug eye13 and move on. Everyone just takes the death and moves on.

I really appreciated last week where how a +20 dungeon made you pay much more mechanics to the dungeon move and bosses instead of affixes. Watching high level trash packs makes you really appreciate their abilities. Bosses as well

[Deleted]

Thank you for all the constructive tips, very much appreciated.

[Lifetapper]

People are just wannabee elitists.

I have no problem getting my weekly done. And from what I've noticed, groups are actually less likely to fail if they don't demand the usual garbage like checking logs or raider.io. I just join a group that has a reasonable Ilvl requirement (Even if I was overleveled, I would never join a group that demands outrageous ilvls). You wanna know why that is? Because the same people with high scores and ilvls, think they can just ignore mechanics and faceroll, then one bad thing goes wrong and it's apparently now a waste of time, so everyone leaves. This is why wannabee elitists are just best to avoid.

All that matters, is clearing 15 each week. I'll either use my own key, make a group (ignoring anyone mentioning raider.io or linking keystone master), or join a group without stupid requirements.

You wannabee elitists trying to compare 15s to pro gaming league, can just go slap your Ds together. I don't really need or want to be a part of it, and will continue to progress on my own, at my own pace. You do not exist in my world.

[Deleted]

People are just wannabee elitists.

I have no problem getting my weekly done. And from what I've noticed, groups are actually less likely to fail if they don't demand the usual garbage like checking logs or raider.io. I just join a group that has a reasonable Ilvl requirement (Even if I was overleveled, I would never join a group that demands outrageous ilvls). You wanna know why that is? Because the same people with high scores and ilvls, think they can just ignore mechanics and faceroll, then one bad thing goes wrong and it's apparently now a waste of time, so everyone leaves. This is why wannabee elitists are just best to avoid.

All that matters, is clearing 15 each week. I'll either use my own key, make a group (ignoring anyone mentioning raider.io or linking keystone master), or join a group without stupid requirements.

You wannabee elitists trying to compare 15s to pro gaming league, can just go slap your Ds together. I don't really need or want to be a part of it, and will continue to progress on my own, at my own pace. You do not exist in my world.

This is cool, mate. No sarcasm or irony.
Our worlds don't match and we both don't want them to match. That is cool.
The problem is with people who want to enforce THEIR world's rules onto others' worlds.

[Deleted]

I have a question to you all - not intended to be toxic at all, but rather a plea for guidance and perhaps to illuminate one of the main issues I'm facing.

I am an experienced player - been playing since vanilla - 400 days played - and was a hardcore 'server first' raider for most of this period. I am definitely not a super player, but I know what I'm doing and I am very much accustomed to reading tactics in advance, simming my character, using buffs, boss mechanics etc.

However, I started to play Legion very late - dinged 110 with my mage about six weeks ago. Today, I have 930 itemlvl (most of them relinquished pieces) and 2 legendaries. My guild is mostly dead now but I wouldn't like to join another guild so I am pretty much playing solo. I started doing Mythic + a couple of weeks ago and yesterday (after like 7-8 rejected invites) I got my first +10 (Keystone master achievement). The run was smooth and we had no problems.

I know that 930 is perfectly fine for +10 - even for higher keys - but 95% I get rejected. Too many people are at a higher ilevel now and people's expectations are sky high. Some people are asking for 940-950 for anything above +5 !!. Obviously, the item level masks the actual experience / skill of the player.

How I am supposed to increase my item level within a reasonable time frame if I get mostly rejected for dungeons that drop the gear I need?

Two weeks later after my above post, I followed the suggestions posted by a number of people here. I increased my item level by +20 now (950) and it's obviously much easier to find raid / mythic+ slots. The 3 critical points I followed - thanks to the tips by people on this forum - were:

1. Antorus Normal is your friend - on my server cluster (EU) some good people actually DO organize raids where newcomers without the achievement "Seat of the Pantheon" are allowed, given that you have at least 925-935 which is easily achievable outside of Antorus. Once you get "Seat", invites will get much easier. Keep trying - there are some GREAT people - not just players - out there. A lot of the community is toxic but not everyone is. Antorus's normal gear (base 930) is excellent and warforged/titanforged drops will boost you further. Running Antorus LFR and Tomb of Sargeras Heroic is also good - you can get your tier pieces as well as some upgrades if they warforge/titanforge. I got a 960 (!!) titanforged tier piece from ToS this week !

2. Mythic +. At below 950, you will find it (almost) impossible to join a +15 key unless you have a guild. Don't get disheartened. Build your own key and be patient. Once you manage to actually get a +15 key, it will be easy as hell to make a successful group as you'll get flooded by applications of high-level players who want to get their weekly chest. However, above all, do not expect to get carried and research the hell out of the dungeons you are running. Get acquainted with the week's affixes before "wasting" chances to upgrade your own key. Moreover, loot from 10-14 keys - which you'll be vastly more successful to join than a +15 - could also be an upgrade particularly if it's war/tf forged.

3. If you are not in a stable guild...don't get disheartened. Plenty of people like you. Make friends with people you ran raids or dungeons with and don't be afraid to ask them to make a group or join your own key run. This is not just about completing a dungeon successfully. WoW is a social game and in the era of "anonymous raiding", having friendly interactions will boost your confidence and make the journey worth it...despite the bumps along the way.

[kamuimac]

I appreciate how you approached this question. There are always tricks to gearing up, some you can do solo and some that are easier with guild or friends. Argus is Blizz's #1 catchup atm. The vendor gear is 910 but can WF and this can be used to shore up your weak spots. The weekly greater invasion is a shot at 930 loot. Even at 930ish, you should be able to find N Antorus groups where you can fish for tier and TF upgrades.

Lastly, my #1 piece of advice is to build a rollodex (testing your RL age now ), i.e. contact list of people you'd like to run M+ with. Every time you have a successful run, add the better members of that group to friends list. Get with them on Tuesdays to see who has what keys and make plans to run them together.

I am in the position of having gear (965) but only a mediocre score (1710) because I've never paid attention to it before. I am kind of excited about it, because it gives me a new goal to work on and new ways to progress. What I am doing is inviting 4 of those friends to form a regular team with good basic comp to get more ambitious with keys. We plan to run twice a week. We have a discord channel just for this, with reference sources for every dungeon so we can really dial in what needs interrupting and so on. We may not be running WF+30s right away, but guarantee you our scores will go up and we will have fun doing it.

now tell us how much of WF did you get from that 910 and 930 loot to get to 965 .

there is a limit to bs advices. yes if people are lucky with those they can get to 935-940 but dont give them stupid idea that they can hit 965 without heavy mythic +15 and hc antrus farm.

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This is cool, mate. No sarcasm or irony.
Our worlds don't match and we both don't want them to match. That is cool.
The problem is with people who want to enforce THEIR world's rules onto others' worlds.

and yet people complain its blizzard's fault that community is pile of toxic shit atm - when its pretty obvious that its players doin it to each other with their "i dont want to play with anyone else who is even 0,0001% below me"

but sure its blizzards and game fault not players

[Deleted]

now tell us how much of WF did you get from that 910 and 930 loot to get to 965 .

there is a limit to bs advices. yes if people are lucky with those they can get to 935-940 but dont give them stupid idea that they can hit 965 without heavy mythic +15 and hc antrus farm.

But with antorus HC 965 is easy reachable. And you get easy in antorus HC, I do it every week.

and yet people complain its blizzard's fault that community is pile of toxic shit atm - when its pretty obvious that its players doin it to each other with their "i dont want to play with anyone else who is even 0,0001% below me"

but sure its blizzards and game fault not players

There are around 5 million players. You can't get 5 million in the same boat. There will be smaller communities among the players. And if to communities don't match, that is not toxic. That happens. Not everyone with a different attitude than you is toxic.

And it isn't that i don't want to play with people who are 0,00001% below me. But after a year I don't want to explain a dungeon boss the 100000 time.

[HuxNeva]

now tell us how much of WF did you get from that 910 and 930 loot to get to 965 .
there is a limit to bs advices. yes if people are lucky with those they can get to 935-940 but dont give them stupid idea that they can hit 965 without heavy mythic +15 and hc antrus farm.

Let me tell you that farming +15 and above for gear, you will have to do an enormous number to ever get to 965 by that way alone. I like running them, so have run a lot, but nearly all my worn gear is from Anthorus HC (~960/967 in bags). The TF factor in raids is definitely tuned higher than that of M+ end of dungeon loot. The 'weekly chest' is an outlier, but given the huge loot-table it provides seldom useful gear.

Farming raids is by far the most efficient way to gear up. What can help you a lot is using your bonus rolls to target specific pieces instead of just rolling on whatever boss. Yes, it takes more work to kill and re-kill a specific boss 4 times in a week in Pugs instead of just rolling with the weekly guild clear flow, but it is worth it.

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I think its funny, that the "chest keys" are always the hardest, because people lack experience. Once you add +3/+4 to the weekly chest level, people stop dieing to avoidable shit, because they are used to dodge.

Definitely mirrors my experience. But I think part of it also is self confirmatory, as people are more selective the higher the key level. There seems to be a lack of perspective when it comes to "'it's just' a +15, quickly grab some people from the queue and we'll breeze through it", and then you get people just ignoring mechanics and dying repeatedly anyways.

[Mgemnusratsl]

Hello people on MMO, I have been reading a lot about this lately, and thought i'd give my input.
As a player who run a lot with guild i have obtained a high enough mythic score, that i get accepted into most pugs that want to farm 15-18 keys. I see a lot of complaining about "why are people not taking me into their groups?? I know i am good enough even though i only have 1,3k m+ score and 5 failed +15's on my wowprogress"
If you look from the point of view, from a player that has high mythic+ score, who has been farming a lot to get his mythic+ score up, why should he pick you?

1st of all there is a million dps in queue to pick between, so if you are playing dps without high m+ score you must face that you're never going to get picked for high keys
2nd Why is it you think you are entitled to a spot in a group with people, far superior to you in terms of experience and the amount of work they have put into mythic+? Would you expect to get into master tier games in league, when you are only at silver MMR?
my 3rd and last point, gear is so easily available now, heroic + normal Antorus is a joke, so looking at your 950 ilvl doesn't say much about what we can expect from you. I just now pugged a EoA +15 and it was so painful to get through, even with everyone at 945+, we had a DK who died on every boss because he failed mechanics, tank was squishy as fuck, died multiple times on small thrash pulls, and the warrior was awfull as well.
We barely killed last boss and I think we 1 chested it. With a group of players with high mythic+ score, we will usually 3 chest a key like this.
So yes, in my opinion we do need some way to measure mythic + skill.

I suggest if you got low score, but think you are good at the game, go find a guild or some friends with your own key, and work your skill + experience up this way, that’s how most of us have done it.
I don't expect to get into groups with 2,6k players when I’m only at 2,3k.
Instead I will go play with players who also has around 2,3k and work my way up.
I apologize for bad gramma, but English is not my first language

Before 7.3 i was trying to get m+ score, but now my goal is only weekly chest
So 1 dungeon 10+ Is enough for me. I go 15+ if i find and accepted.
I can do enough dps even for 15+, i got all 19 20 21 tier sets and all leg. but my score is around 700 now .
So you cant be certain about me. If you pug, bare the consequences.