Scrubbusters Going Horde - Player-Power Racials MUST be Removed!

[Eazy]

The only reason you should pick a race in this game is.
A) You like the look of it.

I can't really agree.

That's it. That's the only reason. Blizzard need to remove power racials in BfA.

I agree.

[Onikaroshi]

.......lol you are wrong and right on so many levels. Lets start with the good news its 1%. ( still some racials that are superior to alliance ones). And yes they have closed the gap.....after a fucking decade!!!!! They where stronger on the hord side for years!!!! So a very large player has been build around it. And most people have allot of alts and like them all to be on 1 side. And if you are raiding and you want to swap ( what epic guilds like that do) you need several raid ready/geared alts. So changing to the alliance will cost to much.
And 1% is still 1%. That can sometimes mean wipe or not wipe. 1% more dps on those levels means going to phase's faster, 1% less or more on anything on a 6 min fight against a boss on mythic means allot.

Yea, they were overpowered two expansions ago and all before that so horde has a bigger raiding base, that's why they switched, they flat out said it. It had NOTHING to do with current racials, the difference between the best horde racials and the best alliance racials is WAY less then 1% and it depends ENTIRELY on what class you play.

The only point is, there's no reason to nerf Racials anymore, and there's no way they can fix the faction imbalance when it comes to raiding.

[Krigaren]

Top players going Horde? Horde outnumbering Alliance? Alliance players crying that it's unfair?

Good.

As a Horde player in Vanilla thru Wrath, where massive faction imbalances existed favoring Alliance, and prior to the cross-realm merge, I have zero sympathy for Alliance players who are getting a minor, inconsequential taste of imbalance now.

Nothing in the game is affected by an imbalance anymore, so to complain about racials and 1% guilds faction changing is laughable. It's not like the old days where world PvP was impossible as a Horde player because you were always outnumbered 4:1 by Alliance.

Where BGs like AV were impossible to win as Horde prior to cross-realms because Alliance always had a full group while Horde struggled to maintain 20 at any given time.

Where contested world PvP zones like the arenas in Hellfire Penninsula, the towers in Zangarmarsh or Tarrokar Forest were dominated by Alliance and Horde never had the zone buffs.

Where zones like Wintergrasp were always under Alliance control, and players were able to freely farm tier gear from the raid bosses, while Horde had to literally be on-call to do it in the event we actually managed to win once or twice a month.

Where the achievements to kill faction leaders was impossible for you, but your leaders were on farm status and you had to regularly expect to have half of your capitals crippled because all the NPCs were wiped out.

Where questing was made more difficult because you had to wait an hour to kill a named mob, or to finish a collection quest that dozens of Alliance players were swarming and farming on a perpetual basis.

Until faction imbalances actually effect the game again, this is a non-issue to cry about.

[spdr]

Top players going Horde? Horde outnumbering Alliance? Alliance players crying that it's unfair?

Good.

As a Horde player in Vanilla thru Wrath, where massive faction imbalances existed favoring Alliance, and prior to the cross-realm merge, I have zero sympathy for Alliance players who are getting a minor, inconsequential taste of imbalance now.

Nothing in the game is affected by an imbalance anymore, so to complain about racials and 1% guilds faction changing is laughable. It's not like the old days where world PvP was impossible as a Horde player because you were always outnumbered 4:1 by Alliance.

Where BGs like AV were impossible to win as Horde prior to cross-realms because Alliance always had a full group while Horde struggled to maintain 20 at any given time.

Where contested world PvP zones like the arenas in Hellfire Penninsula, the towers in Zangarmarsh or Tarrokar Forest were dominated by Alliance and Horde never had the zone buffs.

Where zones like Wintergrasp were always under Alliance control, and players were able to freely farm tier gear from the raid bosses, while Horde had to literally be on-call to do it in the event we actually managed to win once or twice a month.

Where the achievements to kill faction leaders was impossible for you, but your leaders were on farm status and you had to regularly expect to have half of your capitals crippled because all the NPCs were wiped out.

Where questing was made more difficult because you had to wait an hour to kill a named mob, or to finish a collection quest that dozens of Alliance players were swarming and farming on a perpetual basis.

Until faction imbalances actually effect the game again, this is a non-issue to cry about.

The opposite of that has always been true on other servers too.

[baskev]

Yea, they were overpowered two expansions ago and all before that so horde has a bigger raiding base, that's why they switched, they flat out said it. It had NOTHING to do with current racials, the difference between the best horde racials and the best alliance racials is WAY less then 1% and it depends ENTIRELY on what class you play.

The only point is, there's no reason to nerf Racials anymore, and there's no way they can fix the faction imbalance when it comes to raiding.

Yup.

And in your own words now...it still dependents on witch class you play. Nerf may not matter anymore yeah...blizzard is way to late for that. But they do need to fix this. Because if a game build on 2 side's conflict and 1 side has a way larger pool of players..you have a problem...So nerfs for the hord or extra strong racials for the alliance will indeed not help.
But its still a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

Top players going Horde? Horde outnumbering Alliance? Alliance players crying that it's unfair?

Good.

As a Horde player in Vanilla thru Wrath, where massive faction imbalances existed favoring Alliance, and prior to the cross-realm merge, I have zero sympathy for Alliance players who are getting a minor, inconsequential taste of imbalance now.

Nothing in the game is affected by an imbalance anymore, so to complain about racials and 1% guilds faction changing is laughable. It's not like the old days where world PvP was impossible as a Horde player because you were always outnumbered 4:1 by Alliance.

Where BGs like AV were impossible to win as Horde prior to cross-realms because Alliance always had a full group while Horde struggled to maintain 20 at any given time.

Where contested world PvP zones like the arenas in Hellfire Penninsula, the towers in Zangarmarsh or Tarrokar Forest were dominated by Alliance and Horde never had the zone buffs.

Where zones like Wintergrasp were always under Alliance control, and players were able to freely farm tier gear from the raid bosses, while Horde had to literally be on-call to do it in the event we actually managed to win once or twice a month.

Where the achievements to kill faction leaders was impossible for you, but your leaders were on farm status and you had to regularly expect to have half of your capitals crippled because all the NPCs were wiped out.

Where questing was made more difficult because you had to wait an hour to kill a named mob, or to finish a collection quest that dozens of Alliance players were swarming and farming on a perpetual basis.

Until faction imbalances actually effect the game again, this is a non-issue to cry about.

On your little corner of the servers yeah. But overall it has for a very very long time been Hord first. Yes pvp was a mess...but they corrected that many expansions ago...did they do that for pve??? nope so you stop crying .

[Deleted]

The opposite of that has always been true on other servers too.

It hasn't, vanilla had almost 70% of population being alliance. Paladin was way better than shaman for anything, cities were way harder to attack than horde ones where you could sneak to the boss from so many entrances, the leveling zones of the horde had way less quests, horde has less zones too, that's why they turned hillsbrad into a horde zone btw, the whole gaming experience was an afterthought compared to the alliance one.

[judgementofantonidas]

With Scrubbusters recent annoucement that they are going Horde, there are now ZERO Alliance guilds in the top 10 rankings.

The reason Scrubbusters gave was this
"Whenever you talk about hardcore raiding, you associate it with Horde. That has always been the case partly because of stronger racials, but also because there just always was a bigger and established community on the Horde side."

Why has it always the case that people associate Hardcore raiding with Horde? Because Horde have had stronger racials for Raiding for ages now.

Racials that affect player power are detrimental to the game and the raiding scene.

The only reason you should pick a race in this game is.
A) You like the look of it.

That's it. That's the only reason. Blizzard need to remove power racials in BfA.

nope.
nope.
nope.
nope.
nope.

If you play for character aesthetics then you are obviously only playing the casual game.


and.

nope.

[Onikaroshi]

Yup.

And in your own words now...it still dependents on witch class you play. Nerf may not matter anymore yeah...blizzard is way to late for that. But they do need to fix this. Because if a game build on 2 side's conflict and 1 side has a way larger pool of players..you have a problem...So nerfs for the hord or extra strong racials for the alliance will indeed not help.
But its still a problem.

There's no way to fix it without making alliance racials SO op that it forces a change, but guess what, then you end up with the opposite problem. The damage has been done, it costs a lot of money or time to faction change, specially for these big guilds. There's really no reason to do it. We are going to see Horde PvE dominance til the day the servers shut down.

[corebit]

There's no way to fix it without making alliance racials SO op that it forces a change, but guess what, then you end up with the opposite problem. The damage has been done, it costs a lot of money or time to faction change, specially for these big guilds. There's really no reason to do it. We are going to see Horde PvE dominance til the day the servers shut down.

The damage to raids is already done, but with the increasing focus on Mythic+ dungeons, Blizzard could make a per-faction PVE leaderboard the same way that now Arena gladiator cutoffs are separate per faction.

The other option is to completely destroy the two faction system and let Alliance and Horde raid together, but knowing Blizzard, that will never happen.

[Onikaroshi]

The damage to raids is already done, but with the increasing focus on Mythic+ dungeons, Blizzard could make a per-faction PVE leaderboard the same way that now Arena gladiator cutoffs are separate per faction.

The other option is to completely destroy the two faction system and let Alliance and Horde raid together, but knowing Blizzard, that will never happen.

It'd be the best for the game but it would end their horde v alliance boner so it won't happen, yea.

[Atherions]

Removing player-power racials wont change the fact that something like 75% of the serious raiding population is horde. Recruiting good players is way easier as horde, finding good pugs is easier as horde etc. Alliance has become the faction full of casual players and horde has become the faction of serious players. I'm sure overall the faction balance is pretty close to 50/50, but for normal and above difficulty PVE horde has a clear advantage in terms of playerbase.

[RoKPaNda]

Holy non-issue Batman. The amount of guilds/players this affects is so minuscule it's ridiculous. 3% of the population raids Mythic, and this only affects the ones that compete for world first or top 50 or whatever. Nobody is faction swapping for a leg up for Heroic or lower, and your average Mythic guild isn't doing this either. A far better solution would be to just ditch the faction bullshit. At least for PvE. Not being able to play with half the population of the game and worry about faction swap bullshit is so outdated at this point.

Removing player-power racials wont change the fact that something like 75% of the serious raiding population is horde. Recruiting good players is way easier as horde, finding good pugs is easier as horde etc. Alliance has become the faction full of casual players and horde has become the faction of serious players. I'm sure overall the faction balance is pretty close to 50/50, but for normal and above difficulty PVE horde has a clear advantage in terms of playerbase.

That is such a tiny % of the playerbase that does "serious raiding." - And no, really Horde doesn't have any advantage for pugging N/H / M+ / etc. Those players that you're worried about being horde instead of alliance aren't even in the pool for that.

[corebit]

Holy non-issue Batman. The amount of guilds/players this affects is so minuscule it's ridiculous. 3% of the population raids Mythic, and this only affects the ones that compete for world first or top 50 or whatever. Nobody is faction swapping for a leg up for Heroic or lower, and your average Mythic guild isn't doing this either. A far better solution would be to just ditch the faction bullshit. At least for PvE. Not being able to play with half the population of the game and worry about faction swap bullshit is so outdated at this point.

My guild is pretty casual, we are currently only 5/11M but recruiting new people Alliance-side is very slow, like 1 or 2 applications per several weeks. I can see the clear difference since I mained Horde just two tiers before, where my previous guild would receive new trials constantly.

From my anecdotal evidence I would say this problem affects even casual mythic guilds.

[Onikaroshi]

My guild is pretty casual, we are currently only 5/11M but recruiting new people Alliance-side is very slow, like 1 or 2 applications per several weeks. I can see the clear difference since I mained Horde just two tiers before, where my previous guild would receive new trials constantly.

From my anecdotal evidence I would say this problem affects even casual mythic guilds.

Two guilds at the same level, one horde, one alliance. Alliance guild struggles for members, never gets apps, has to pug every raid or cancel raid nights. Horde guild swims with members, any time we put out for recruitment we get apps within a day and have to shut down recruitment again.

Both on high pop for their faction (Horde on zul'jin, Alliance on Stormrage), its crazy the difference.

[klogaroth]

Racials contributed to guilds going horde like 10 tiers ago. There was just never a reason to change back.

I think a much bigger reason behind all of this is that time outside of raiding is now a lot more important. You can spend time with people cross server in M+, but not cross faction. People playing horde would have to leave their m+ buddies to go alliance, so they're more likely than ever to want to stick to the faction they currently play. When the majority of top end guilds are already horde this means that people wanting to raid at that level will look for other horde guilds instead of considering a faction change. Plus it doesn't hurt that you're limiting people to only having to server transfer their characters compared to race and server change. Transferring the number of characters required for split runs takes a fair bit of cash or gold as it is, so when you add faction changes on top it starts to stack up the reasons to stick with your faction where possible.

[durrtygoodz]

Holy non-issue Batman. The amount of guilds/players this affects is so minuscule it's ridiculous. 3% of the population raids Mythic, and this only affects the ones that compete for world first or top 50 or whatever. Nobody is faction swapping for a leg up for Heroic or lower, and your average Mythic guild isn't doing this either.

I played on Draenor horde for a couple of years during late MoP and WoD and I saw plenty of bang average mythic guilds rock up on our server from alliance side, all chasing better QoL with recruitment. The truth is that alliance players/guilds on dead realms seek to leave, and when they see the best raiding realms are by far horde dominated and horde has most of the population, they think they may as well faction change too.

[RoKPaNda]

Two guilds at the same level, one horde, one alliance. Alliance guild struggles for members, never gets apps, has to pug every raid or cancel raid nights. Horde guild swims with members, any time we put out for recruitment we get apps within a day and have to shut down recruitment again.

Both on high pop for their faction (Horde on zul'jin, Alliance on Stormrage), its crazy the difference.

Have you considered that the issue you're facing isn't quite that simple? Two realms being high pop doesn't mean those realms are equal. Stormrage is much much higher populated than Zul'jin is, despite both being listed simply as "high pop." Your average fairly meh Mythic raid guild is a dime a dozen on Stormrage. Less competition on Zul'jin, so your guild stands out more. On Stormrage why join average Mythic raid guild X when you can apply to any number of better ones.

[Super Kami Dende]

The difference is so tiny it only matters to the people in the top 10. Anyone not in that league that changes because Top Raiders do are imbeciles.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

They didn't factionchange because of Dps gain, because there is none. Racials have been completely balanced ever since the launch of WoD, the next step would be to remove them entirely.

They are going Horde becuase the vast majority of hardcore guilds are Horde (because Horde USED to have vastly superior racials during WotLK, Cata and MoP). Since the removal of snapshotting, and Berserking getting changed to 15% Haste (used to be 25), there has been no visible Dps difference between any of the racials. They are all so close that 1 single mistake during any point of the fight, will have a MUCH bigger effect on your Dps.


Scrubbusters' official statement even said something like "Even though racials are balanced now, most hardcore raiding guilds factionchanged to Horde back when they had better ones. This means that Horde guilds have a significantly bigger pool to recruit from, and we want to be part of the x-guild altruns and M+ runs that are happening between the different top guilds".

The difference is so tiny it only matters to the people in the top 10. Anyone not in that league that changes because Top Raiders do are imbeciles.

Wrong. There is no Dps difference between Horde and Ally, haven't been for 3 years. They went Horde because all the other hardcore guilds are Horde (and yes, they are Horde because Horde USED to have better racials).

[oplawlz]

Nothing to do with racials. Hardcore raiders know that playing as or being in a group with gnomes reduces your skill by approx 15%. In extreme cases, where a gnome is allowed to lead a raid or guild, this can increase to upwards of 50%.

It's science, horde is better.