Why do people act like Classic WOW was torture?

[Deleted]

Affliction/Demonology using shards as a resource you GENERATE and SPEND as a RESOURCE is one thing
Using mana as your primary resource which you can generate by lifetap and replenish by drain life is one thing
But using mana and spending mana while sometimes speanding shards that you have to keep track of in bags oh and btw you need to get a different specialized bag otherwise you will have to make a decision do I want to cast things or have space for loot is another thing.

It's like is shamans had to go chop wood to summon their totems every time nothing to do with gameplay or character fantasy

That's entirely your opinion but shamans had to get ankhs for their reincarnation. Having wood for totems would be probably a bit overkill but why not?

What comes to warlock you can obviously argue that tracking multiple resources is not fun in a gameplay sense, but in my opinion your opinion is wrong. See it's only opinion. Though I would never play classic warlock just because getting those shards was way too slow and frustrating every time you logged in. I'm totally fine with having to decide when I use my "more expensive" spells - making decision is part of the fun in games. Played warlocks as main from cata -> and abandoned it in legion beta due to what they did to demo and affli was ruined in wod. I still miss mop affliction, it was so much fun.

[Kithelle]

Never said it was torture, just was a LOOOOONNNNGGGG grind

[MrHappy]

Don't complain that people don't give you "objective reasons" if this is the only way you know how to respond. I definitely won't be wasting my time giving you serious replies any longer.

says the guy that thinks Vanilla and lesion are completely different games....unless you don't understand the definition of completely different.
Also for that matter i don't think you understand the difference between subjective and objective either....tnx for not wasting your time there will be less bullshit on the forums then

[RickJamesLich]

Vanilla was far from torture, for me it was a blast. I still vividly remember the grind to 60, the friends I made along the way and the wacky situations I got myself into. And yes it was a grind but for me at least, it's a lot more interesting this way than just mindlessly running around and killing mobs with zero chance of dying.

I haven't played Legion but the last time I did play (WoD) it was more about just getting to max level ASAP so you could queue with complete strangers that you'd never see again and complete dungeons that required zero communication ever.

[MrHappy]

That's entirely your opinion but shamans had to get ankhs for their reincarnation. Having wood for totems would be probably a bit overkill but why not?

What comes to warlock you can obviously argue that tracking multiple resources is not fun in a gameplay sense, but in my opinion your opinion is wrong. See it's only opinion. Though I would never play classic warlock just because getting those shards was way too slow and frustrating every time you logged in. I'm totally fine with having to decide when I use my "more expensive" spells - making decision is part of the fun in games. Played warlocks as main from cata -> and abandoned it in legion beta due to what they did to demo and affli was ruined in wod. I still miss mop affliction, it was so much fun.

we do track multiple resources today. we just generate them differently not by spam one ability on low level critters and get a shard when it kills something.

I'll give you a different analogy. Say you are a war and you use your Battle Shout...well after a while you get an error message that says your voice is hoarse and you need to go drink some thistle tea to make it better
Or say you were a frost mage and after a while you get an error message that your hands are too cold to cast and killing blows with fireballs will make you warm and fuzzy again.

- - - Updated - - -

Vanilla was far from torture, for me it was a blast. I still vividly remember the grind to 60, the friends I made along the way and the wacky situations I got myself into. And yes it was a grind but for me at least, it's a lot more interesting this way than just mindlessly running around and killing mobs with zero chance of dying.

go to argus as a fresh 110 and run around a bit...see how fast that 0 becomes 100

[Deleted]

What? You lost me...i'm pretty sure that's the definition of fixing.

Well you are wrong then, I'm happy you learn something new every day.


This has to be troll but I will bait because I'm super bored.

Ok let's

Point 1) You can spend months gearing and playing the game to get the best gear only to be chain-stunned and killed by a guy in white gear

Eviscerate was nerfed so this is just lie. If you get stunlocked with best gear by a guy in white gear you should probably equip your gear next time. It doesn't help much in your inventory.

Point 2) Immersion is broken by having to stop playing your class and go do something unrelated to replenish a tertiary resource to use your primary abilities to resume your main story/class fantasy

you're right totally subjective experience

This is subjective too and you are lying also. I mean you can't even get shards from grey mobs in vanilla so I don't understand why you are trying to imply that you have to go grind boars in durotar or something. Why don't you just collect shards while you play the game? The real problem with shards was that you had to stack them for raids because of summons and healthstones and there was only so many trash mobs you could get a shard from.

[Demeia]

Nah. You can level up to 110 and get into Antorus really really fast. You start a level 1 in vanilla and that toon will not see Naxx for quite a long time.

Obviously it's not true that literally no-one saw Naxx, but it is true that the number of people who were in it was staggeringly small. I believe we will absolutely see a replay of that, though of course I cannot be absolutely sure. Resistance gear means that I'm likely right. That's a pretty big pain in the ass right there. There's some fairly serious blocks that today's more experienced, better raiders might not be able to get around so quickly (although I absolutely don't know that). I myself was in a, well, decent raid group we ran two MCs, two BWL, but the more advanced group didn't get through AQ40 (hurhu and the poison resist gear). I release the poster I'm replying too wasn't quite bringing up the same point but I think it's worth mentioning that seeing Naxx will again be something for the very, very minority.

The problem will be population supporting 40m. You need a pretty big player base to get 40m going and kept going especially since many of the players will quickly realize who tedious vanilla was. (Just getting gold for repairs could be tedious; on several occasions we had tanks say "I don't have the gold to repair.") If you have to raid for 1 1/2 years to get the gear to do Naxx, well, I don't fancy your chances at all. Possibly someone has done the math here but I raided MC for several months before I got my first piece of gear (t1 mage bracers... Probably they were bad).

Someone pointed out that you run out quests in the 30's and 40s but... Didn't you just find a good area and grind? There's really not a lot of point to doing quests. It's all just endlessly killing mobs to 60. I mean, yes, I did quests but it was hardly even remotely efficient. If I did the classic I'd turn on some nice podcasts and just kill everything while seriously listening to them.

I think the posters suggesting that few people who post actually played in Vanilla are wildly wrong. There's a ton of us still in the game. I think the problem is that some of us have better memories.

[Deleted]

we do track multiple resources today. we just generate them differently not by spam one ability on low level critters and get a shard when it kills something.

Critters didnt give shards so you probably didn't play back then.
edit: and this was also part of the problem with shards because you had to grind lvl ~50 mobs to actually get shards and killing those were kinda slow.

I'll give you a different analogy. Say you are a war and you use your Battle Shout...well after a while you get an error message that says your voice is hoarse and you need to go drink some thistle tea to make it better
Or say you were a frost mage and after a while you get an error message that your hands are too cold to cast and killing blows with fireballs will make you warm and fuzzy again.

Seems a bit unnecessary but that would make you elemental or fire mage, not frost mage, by default because you could use only 1 frost spell per fight. Sounds kinda shitty design and I don't understand what it has to do with soul shards. You forgot already that you collect shards that you can later use for more powerful spells? 99% of your class works with single shard.

go to argus as a fresh 110 and run around a bit...see how fast that 0 becomes 100

I rerolled 2 weeks before antorus and got 93x gear before raid opened. Argus was kinda "slow" took me whole day because mobs have shitloads of hp when you are equipped like 850 ilvl - gear scaling is way too hard in this game now. Gearing is super fast and easy. Obviously I got carried a bit too, m+10 twice and once in hc ToS.

[Nomads]

says the guy that thinks Vanilla and lesion are completely different games....unless you don't understand the definition of completely different.
Also for that matter i don't think you understand the difference between subjective and objective either....tnx for not wasting your time there will be less bullshit on the forums then

Lol, look how pissed this kid is over the fact that people enjoy something he doesn't. I wonder if he looks in the mirror every now and then and just starts sobbing at his obvious inadequacies.

Also, I love that he called Legion "lesion". I vote we call it that from now on as it is a perfect name to describe it.

le·sion - a region in an organ or tissue that has suffered damage through injury or disease, such as a wound, ulcer, abscess, tumor, etc.

[RickJamesLich]

go to argus as a fresh 110 and run around a bit...see how fast that 0 becomes 100

I won't be finding out lol, but I'll take your word for it. But 10 years of the same game play of just running around killing mobs with zero chance of dying has me skeptical. I do realize that vanilla is not everyone's cup of tea, but some of us have been burned by retail so many times that we just never want to return to it.

[Deleted]

I won't be finding out lol, but I'll take your word for it. But 10 years of the same game play of just running around killing mobs with zero chance of dying has me skeptical. I do realize that vanilla is not everyone's cup of tea, but some of us have been burned by retail so many times that we just never want to return to it.

Sadly he is lying. I mean it's slow because you don't do any damage but dying is not a problem. Obviously you can't aoe everything.

edit: you can't aoe everything before you get catchup gear, which takes like a day

[MrHappy]

I won't be finding out lol, but I'll take your word for it. But 10 years of the same game play of just running around killing mobs with zero chance of dying has me skeptical. I do realize that vanilla is not everyone's cup of tea, but some of us have been burned by retail so many times that we just never want to return to it.

even before argus as a fresh 110 Suramar was deadly you had to pull smart or be in a group. It became "easier" with raid gear but even then the HP of mobs scale with your ilvl and the QoL changes coming in 7.3.5 are amazing because it completely fixes the main problem with questing and leveling. Even as low level with full BoA's you won't one shot mobs just not possible. .

[Soon-TM]

even before argus as a fresh 110 Suramar was deadly you had to pull smart or be in a group. It became "easier" with raid gear but even then the HP of mobs scale with your ilvl and the QoL changes coming in 7.3.5 are amazing because it completely fixes the main problem with questing and leveling. Even as low level with full BoA's you won't one shot mobs just not possible. .

You would have a point if gear was as difficult to get as in Vanilla, which is certainly not the case.

[Jastall]

But warnings are fucking stupid. A fallout 4 player wont run up to me and go "DUDE! YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING BY PLAYING FALLOUT 3!"

I'd tell them not to waste time with the pile of dogshit that is FO3 and play New Vegas instead, but that's besides the point.

Anyway, my feeling is that some people make vanilla to be far more hardcore, demanding and ''real RPG, man'' than it actually was. For its time it was the casual MMO, which is why it took off with millions of subs when previously Everquest was happy to have 500k if memory serves. In the end, it was pretty easy for the most part, as is WoW now. It just had tons and tons of unnecessary bullshit that was designed to slow the player down and mostly passed as RPG elements, such as trainers, price-gouging respecs, reagents up the whazoo, resist check fights and scarcity of mounts. The leveling experience was pretty good the first time around, then it became a chore and the game was extremely alt unfriendly anyway.

If some people like it, more power to them. I personally find transmog alone to be a more fulfilling RPG and customization element than having to buy arrows or thinking my sub-par talent build is so unique and special.

[MrHappy]

You would have a point if gear was as difficult to get as in Vanilla, which is certainly not the case.

but that difficulty was artificial. It was not because of game mechanics, it was not because you spent hours wiping to a boss making marginal progress.
It was difficulty because it was time consuming to get a group in the first place yet alone clear the dungeon which had low % drop rate on stuff you needed which made the time you spent (personally i feel) unrewarding.

[Soon-TM]

but that difficulty was artificial. It was not because of game mechanics, it was not because you spent hours wiping to a boss making marginal progress.
It was difficulty because it was time consuming to get a group in the first place yet alone clear the dungeon which had low % drop rate on stuff you needed which made the time you spent (personally i feel) unrewarding.

But now you are moving the goalposts. You should define then what is "natural" and what is "artificial" difficulty (which sounds silly af to me). From a mechanic point of view, WoW was never difficult, neither in Vanilla nor now.

[Katchii]

But now you are moving the goalposts. You should define then what is "natural" and what is "artificial" difficulty (which sounds silly af to me). From a mechanic point of view, WoW was never difficult, neither in Vanilla nor now.

He's saying that getting gear was only difficult to acquire because the content you needed to tackle to get it was only possible when trying to herd 20-40 cats. As you say, the game mechanics aren't what kept people from getting the gear, it was the logistics of having 20+ people performing well enough to kill the boss...routinely.

Leveling wise, Vanilla WoW was harder than current WoW, as everything was just more deadly out in the world. But end game has been pretty much the same since the beginning, but coordinating schedules and performance of 10-20 people (and only need 20 if your Mythic, which is a small portion of the population) is much easier than 20-40 people (and this was the required number).

[schwank05]

I think Legion was worse than vanilla when it comes to alts.

Agreed, Vanilla wasnt all about max level so I have every calss, some were lvl19 PVP toons, others were in the 45-50 range and were what I would call my mains. Now I cant be arsed to level any more characters, because I am sick of the leveling in Legion after 2 characters. I really want to play my Pally and Druid.

[Armourboy]

- - - Updated - - -



go to argus as a fresh 110 and run around a bit...see how fast that 0 becomes 100

It's really not that bad, just did it on my Ret Paladin that was 845 ilevel heading there. It's a tad slower than normal, but outside of the rares nothing is really deadly unless you decide to pull a ton of stuff at one time ( and if you are Tanking specs even that's not a thing ). That experience didn't last long as you got gear pretty quickly, and was even less so if you had saved up the BoA pieces.

I've enjoyed Legion for the most part, but outside of higher mythic+ and mythic raids nothing has been hard. Frankly as far as grinding goes Legion has been the closest successor to Vanilla in a very long time. Vanilla grinds just took a while, while Legions feel quicker but never really end thanks to Reps, AP, Titanforging, and Legendaries.

I'm much more objective about Vanilla, it was not my first MMO, and I played it begrudgingly at first. I was only here because SOE and LA completely destroyed SWG and my friends all came to WoW. I even made a stop off on FF11 before coming here because my brother talked me into it. Needless to say Vanilla felt like a cake walk comparative and felt like it had a ton of unnecessary hand holding compared to previous MMO's I had played.

I said for years that I enjoyed my time in Vanilla and would never want to play it again. I let a buddy talk me into trying Nost when WoD went stale and surprisingly I loved it. Oddly enough I loved it for many of the reasons people are complaining that Vanilla was torture, or bad, and heck there were some I completely forgot about ( like the first time I hit water and dismounted, and having mounts in bags).

The thing is I'm looking forward to it because I discovered I just plain like the older ideas and attitudes of those older MMO's. The broken things, the wonky ideas on classes, the longer grinds, and all of the crap you had to keep on hand just to use abilities I don't see as problems. They aren't torture, or good or bad, they are just different. Some people just like that style more than they like what we have on live. Sure live is great because you can knock out things really quickly and feel like you did something, but if I play very much part of the problem is that you do that, and then do it on the next toon, and the next, or you just find something else to do. Legion can be fun, but Legion can break down very quickly.

I'm ready for something that takes more time, even if it takes me years to get very far. Maybe I reach a point where it's not worth it or I don't like it and go back to live. If I'm going to stay on live I'm going to need to start over once again because everyone I know has quit for like the 4th time, so starting over on Vanilla shouldn't be a big deal. At least it will be out there though, and if I get tired of it, well there is always BfA.

[Deleted]

It wasn't torture or it wouldn't have been successful - but it absolutely was a grind.

It was casual nice stoll on a beach on a fine summers day compared to its peers at the time. Which is why it won everyone over.