1. #4621
    Yeah, I'm still going into heroic ToS in order to get higher ilvl t20 pieces. I have a LFR version of the chest. I'm even going so far as to use some bonus tokens for them.
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  2. #4622
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMcNinja View Post
    If having a higher ilvl would always result in higher DPS, I'd be decked out in full M+ gear. But alas, not this tier. That's why there's no tier next expansion.
    I'm honestly glad that tier is going away. Having to fit around tier slots this expansion has been pretty wonky with legion legendaries and titanforging. The only thing I'm going to miss is class-themed sets.
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  3. #4623
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuji View Post
    The only thing I'm going to miss is class-themed sets.
    Didn´t they say there would be transmog gear as compensation for the t set removal?

  4. #4624
    Quote Originally Posted by General Guderian View Post
    Didn´t they say there would be transmog gear as compensation for the t set removal?
    Wouldn't be surprised if they did, but I can't recall if they did or not. Maybe in dungeons or as "challenge rewards" or something. There's definitely ways to still have class-themed sets without tier.

  5. #4625
    Quote Originally Posted by General Guderian View Post
    Didn´t they say there would be transmog gear as compensation for the t set removal?
    That's not how I heard it. Transmog was used as the justification for the discontinuation of tier sets.
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  6. #4626
    Quote Originally Posted by General Guderian View Post
    Didn´t they say there would be transmog gear as compensation for the t set removal?
    They said sets are going to be based off of the zone/raid they come from, rather than the class.

    Think like the xmog set from Trial of Valor.

  7. #4627
    in other words, 1 set skin for each type of armor, not for each class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Because why bother

  8. #4628
    So talent question, I have my 4p T21 finally, and I thought I saw that I want Greater Judgment now? Normally I swap around between TFoJ and Zeal like everyone else with T20, but I guess this always crit effect above 50% HP is good? I would've thought 1 HP TVs if TFoJ procs would be fun and faster CS to build up HP now that 3 HP BoJ is out and more useful in all phases of a fight, but guess not.

  9. #4629
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    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    So talent question, I have my 4p T21 finally, and I thought I saw that I want Greater Judgment now? Normally I swap around between TFoJ and Zeal like everyone else with T20, but I guess this always crit effect above 50% HP is good? I would've thought 1 HP TVs if TFoJ procs would be fun and faster CS to build up HP now that 3 HP BoJ is out and more useful in all phases of a fight, but guess not.
    Getting GJ happens when you get 2pc, 4pc just slightly smooths out the rotation. Judgement's damage is ludicrous especially with any sort of cleave. 10 million+ total crits each time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    I find it unreasonable to ask for other than obvious reasons, when the reason obviously is the obvious reason.
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  10. #4630
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    That's not how I heard it. Transmog was used as the justification for the discontinuation of tier sets.
    Just wait for them to start selling shaders for real money. I think we'll call it... Netherverse.

  11. #4631
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderhuge View Post
    Just wait for them to start selling shaders for real money. I think we'll call it... Netherverse.
    Actually they are doing this already, though not complete sets. Think of those helmets

  12. #4632
    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    I am quite frustrated with T21 at the moment. I only ran ToS in Normal, so my Tier pieces were 900-905. Recently I started raiding Heroic, and have been gearing up in Normal and Heroic Antorus.

    All the time in the Ret Discord people are told to "sim it", and I do. With all the other items being the same (945+ Antorus neck, ring, wrist, Pantheon at 955, Eye of Command at 960, and all Ret DPS legendaries at 1000), the Heroic T21 4pc (952 overall), actually sims 3k lower for me than wearing my much lower T20 4pc with T21 2pc (944 overall).

    Now, a sim is just a sim, and a 3k DPS difference is minuscule, so it's a push. But why would I use the "better", much higher pieces if there's no appreciable sim difference, plus in practice I'm able to retain both the smoother gameplay of the T20 bonus and the big hit of T21's 40% Judgment bonus?

    Shouldn't higher iLvl always be better, especially when the Tier items are 25-45 item levels better? It's bizarre. Tier gripes will be a moot in Battle for Azeroth, of course, but the expac won't be here for a good while.
    Did you switch to greater judgement for that sim? T21 is all about that judgement.
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  13. #4633
    Deleted
    @Gloriandus

    I sit at 957 equipped ilvl and 965 overall and i'm still using 2p t21 4p t20, my 4pt21 can't outsim the other combos and yeah, it sucks dick.

    The only way it'll sim higher is if u get high ilvl tier sets meaning at least 945 and your other slots are filled up with high ilvl as well. Especially belt, since you'll be running leggo cloak and soul.

    It is frustrating, i have my t21 set but i can't use it, same with other items which are like 30ilvl higher but no, tier slotlul. I'm so glad tier sets are going to hell once BfA comes.

  14. #4634
    Quote Originally Posted by stelmat View Post
    @Gloriandus

    I sit at 957 equipped ilvl and 965 overall and i'm still using 2p t21 4p t20, my 4pt21 can't outsim the other combos and yeah, it sucks dick.

    The only way it'll sim higher is if u get high ilvl tier sets meaning at least 945 and your other slots are filled up with high ilvl as well. Especially belt, since you'll be running leggo cloak and soul.

    It is frustrating, i have my t21 set but i can't use it, same with other items which are like 30ilvl higher but no, tier slotlul. I'm so glad tier sets are going to hell once BfA comes.
    I wouldn't be running cloak and soul, but that's because I have 985+975 off-pieces. It's entirely situational. I'm also kinda glad to see tier going, but even more that legendaries are going to be gone. Good riddance. I would like to see them still implementing class sets somehow, though, like challenge mode rewards or something.

  15. #4635
    Since my post, I've gotten a couple of big Titanforged T21 pieces that I simply couldn't not equip, so now full T21 is simming higher, although my personal performance % for my ilvl is now much worse that it was with the mix of T20/T21; hopefully that's just due to needing to get acclimated to the T21 bonus (ahem).

    Based on my current gear, I'm using the cloak the Highlord ring, as the combo both sims higher and gives me better results in real-world throughput per personal logs over belt/Highlord.

    My issue now is that my Ashbringer has been sitting at 961 for nearly two months. Two of my relics have BiS traits, fortunately, and although I do M+, farm the hell out of Veiled Argunite, and use my bonus rolls on bosses that drop (even the less desirable) relics, I just haven't gotten upgrades.
    Last edited by Gloriandus; 2018-01-10 at 10:29 PM.

  16. #4636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriandus View Post
    Since my post, I've gotten a couple of big Titanforged T21 pieces that I simply couldn't not equip, so now full T21 is simming higher, although my personal performance % for my ilvl is now much worse that it was with the mix of T20/T21; hopefully that's just due to needing to get acclimated to the T21 bonus (ahem).

    Based on my current gear, I'm using the cloak the Highlord ring, as the combo both sims higher and gives me better results in real-world throughput per personal logs over belt/Highlord.

    My issue now is that my Ashbringer has been sitting at 961 for nearly two months. Two of my relics have BiS traits, fortunately, and although I do M+, farm the hell out of Veiled Argunite, and use my bonus rolls on bosses that drop (even the less desirable) relics, I just haven't gotten upgrades.
    Yeah probably you'll need to get accustomed with the whole t21 style, i haven't yet since i can't use the full set. As for the numbers though, you'll be really high once you get the hang of it, at least from what i've seen.
    @Reith Sure that's an option but as u said your gear is really high ilvl. Nevertheless, most use cloak+ring atm, but yeah, i see your point.

  17. #4637
    Deleted
    I like the t21 more than t20. From a HoPo generation and spending pov it looks more sensible instead of the t20 that had you picking between overcapping or casting unbuffed boj or leaving unused generators unused for half a minute.

  18. #4638
    Remember when Reforging was removed because it was too «mathy» and complicated?
    How is this BS system with Titanforging any better...
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  19. #4639
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Remember when Reforging was removed because it was too «mathy» and complicated?
    How is this BS system with Titanforging any better...
    Well, you don't have to do the math, duh

  20. #4640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Remember when Reforging was removed because it was too «mathy» and complicated?
    How is this BS system with Titanforging any better...
    I have a few items on me right now that are like 20-30 ilvls higher than what I have but because they don't have optimal stats, I can't use them. Would sacrifice too much mastery. I want reforging back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    I find it unreasonable to ask for other than obvious reasons, when the reason obviously is the obvious reason.
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