View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #2801
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    If the UK stays in the customs Union, (or creates a special one just for them) - Then the UK cant have an independent trade policy.
    that's sort of the definition of a customs union, a common trade policy -
    That makes sense, but i wonder how well that would go with hard core brexiters.

    Sorry, you still have to obey EU laws, except now, you don't even have a say in its making.

  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    That makes sense, but i wonder how well that would go with hard core brexiters.

    Sorry, you still have to obey EU laws, except now, you don't even have a say in its making.
    well thankfully, from April 2018, we will no longer have to give a shit.
    That's really the best ting about the 'transition' (it's a standstill, no transition) it will exit the UK, with no impact, until after they are out, so the brexiteers screams wont matter to the EU.

  3. #2803
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    How does that even work?

    Assuming the UK stays in the custom unions AND the UK negotiates import/export rules with other country like the US, canada, china... independently of the EU (once brexit is completed), how does that not make the UK a back door into the EU?

    I really don't think the EU would appreciate losing control of all imports/exports on its territory.
    Well the thing is while N.Ireland remains part of the UK, or RoI remains part of the EU the UK can not actually really leave the customs union since that would raise a hard border somewhere.

    Republic isn't going to accept one between them and the EU. Both republic and Northern irish groups are going to accept one on the island. While Northern Ireland are never going to accept one between the Island or Ireland and Great Britain.

    So essentially there are three options for May and her cronies. A) Rip up Good Friday, become the prime minister that essentially reignited the troubles. B) Soft Brexit where the UK is basically in the EU in all but name but has no sway to change the EU. This will piss off Farage and his fanatics C) Stop the madness, revoke article 50, and if necessary (because this part is up in the air) convince the rest of EU to allow UK to stay. This will piss off Farage and his fanatics.3

    Option C right now actually has support of the people as day by day. More and more people are coming out in support of remain. Less for leave.

  4. #2804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Well the thing is while N.Ireland remains part of the UK, or RoI remains part of the EU the UK can not actually really leave the customs union since that would raise a hard border somewhere.

    Republic isn't going to accept one between them and the EU. Both republic and Northern irish groups are going to accept one on the island. While Northern Ireland are never going to accept one between the Island or Ireland and Great Britain.

    So essentially there are three options for May and her cronies. A) Rip up Good Friday, become the prime minister that essentially reignited the troubles. B) Soft Brexit where the UK is basically in the EU in all but name but has no sway to change the EU. This will piss off Farage and his fanatics C) Stop the madness, revoke article 50, and if necessary (because this part is up in the air) convince the rest of EU to allow UK to stay. This will piss off Farage and his fanatics.3

    Option C right now actually has support of the people as day by day. More and more people are coming out in support of remain. Less for leave.
    So what is needed to call this nonsense off then ? UK cannot gain anything besides hollow phrases and blue passports.

  5. #2805
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    I wonder how this is going to play out, because those three objectives are contradictory.
    Haven't we agreed by now that the UK is really good at getting itself into contradictions and expecting the world to rearrange itself to suit the UK's point of view?
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  6. #2806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The issue is that both major parties were split on the Brexit issue. There cannot be a national election that is a defacto new vote on Brexit because neither side represents Remain (unless the parties actually split because of this issue). So it would either take a decision by May, finding a way to get the votes for it or a new referendum, which would likely require a new mandate. Either would be political suicide for May.
    I think the only good solution is to refuse the DUP and go for a hard border between Ireland (the island) and the rest of the UK, with NI practically still in the EU. Which will make Scotland go crazy and end with the UK having a minority government but at least that's a reasonable solution imo.
    Tony Blair urges Labour to challenge the farce head-on. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iden-of-brexit

    british MEP's are also on the fence. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...0-british-meps

    and it may be Theresa's downfall, but it also saves Britain. perhaps she volunteers for the good cause ? in a decade nobody will bat an eye about because everybody is glad she found a solution to stop the fiasco.

  7. #2807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Haven't we agreed by now that the UK is really good at getting itself into contradictions and expecting the world to rearrange itself to suit the UK's point of view?
    We're entering the domain of a Schrödinger's brexit here. Where brexit can exist as both hard and soft as long as no one is looking.

  8. #2808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    We're entering the domain of a Schrödinger's brexit here. Where brexit can exist as both hard and soft as long as no one is looking.
    oh, they wish for. who is gonna tell them the bitter truth and when ?

  9. #2809
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    The funny thing is, even if Article 50 somehow gets repealed, I strongly believe the UK will be in a far worse situation than we were pre referendum, not only from an international reputation standpoint, but because I can't see the EU allowing any of our special exemptions to remain if we decide to Remain.

  10. #2810
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    If article 50 gets repealed, the past year and a half would have been a waste of time of gigantic proportion. Not to mention, a massive embarrassment for the UK that leads to a lack of trust with the UK from everyone. The UK would have proven to be volatile and somewhat selfish.

    While i regret to see the UK leaving the EU, i do believe the best course of action now is to continue with brexit. Going back on brexit right now would not only be ridicule, it would be extremely dangerous as the people of UK would have lost any trust in their government. That's how revolutions get started.

  11. #2811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    The funny thing is, even if Article 50 somehow gets repealed, I strongly believe the UK will be in a far worse situation than we were pre referendum, not only from an international reputation standpoint, but because I can't see the EU allowing any of our special exemptions to remain if we decide to Remain.
    well if i was the EU, the only way i would accept re-admission would be a new referendum with a clearly re-affirmed commitment to the EU, adopting the EURO F.E.

    Oh i said this a while ago:
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Because if we don't we are going to hear from the fringe crazies that the EU is undemocratic for overruling the glorious independence vote - And i'm just completely done with this shit.
    The UK needs to leave the EU, if they have to be kicked out then so be it - I don't care if the UK literally disintegrates into England, Scotland, Wales, and we get a united Ireland, I don't care.
    sorry to the 34% who voted remain.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2018-01-06 at 11:47 PM.

  12. #2812
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    So what is needed to call this nonsense off then ? UK cannot gain anything besides hollow phrases and blue passports.
    Tories will never call it off. UKIP that they are scared of is actually a splinter party that broke off from the Conservatives because of Maastricht. Tories know that if they call off the leave then even if there is just 10% hardcore leavers left in the UK population that's enough with FPTP to see their vote split all over the country to the point Labour just walks in as UKIP voters are just extreme Tory voters.

    Labour would likely go with the softest of Brexits. Basically turn around and say "You voted to leave, we're out and we still have the common market like the majority of you lot seemed to want in the polls.". This will likely piss off a few Labour voters but they're likely just going to stay home. UKIP isn't their type, the other left of centre parties are even more pro EU and conservatives are unlikely to gain their votes either. Of course that would need another General Election which is not going to happen.

    If by some rare occurance there is another election at some point and somehow something even rarer happens that the Lib Dems take a majority. That would be undeniable that the UK populace had voted against Brexit since Lib Dems are the largest UK wide party that is fully anti Brexit (SNP is larger in Westminster but Scotland only).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the only good solution is to refuse the DUP and go for a hard border between Ireland (the island) and the rest of the UK, with NI practically still in the EU. Which will make Scotland go crazy and end with the UK having a minority government but at least that's a reasonable solution imo.
    That's not reasonable to the people of Northern Ireland. And to those who will be killed because such an act will reignite the troubles. Nothing short of Status Quo between the two major islands in terms of borders is going to keep the peace here.

  13. #2813
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The issue is that both major parties were split on the Brexit issue. There cannot be a national election that is a defacto new vote on Brexit because neither side represents Remain (unless the parties actually split because of this issue). So it would either take a decision by May, finding a way to get the votes for it or a new referendum, which would likely require a new mandate. Either would be political suicide for May.
    I think the only good solution is to refuse the DUP and go for a hard border between Ireland (the island) and the rest of the UK, with NI practically still in the EU. Which will make Scotland go crazy and end with the UK having a minority government but at least that's a reasonable solution imo.
    I think Scotland would be more worried about reigniting the troubles than any sense of special treatment. Due to the large amount of Irish migration during the 19th century, along with Scotland's role in Northern Ireland, our own catholic/protestant disputes etc... we're particularly sensitive to the "Irish Question". Any uptick in sectarianism in Ireland wouldn't be pretty for Scotland.

  14. #2814
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    Tony Blair urges Labour to challenge the farce head-on. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iden-of-brexit
    It's honestly insane to me that any political party would sit back and prevaricate over a clearly deeply divisive issue. Take a fucking stand. If the other party is promising to go through with Brexit, say you'll stop it. Then let the people have an actual choice at the next election.

    At the moment the choice is "how much will the EU spit on its cock before giving the UK a no-lube ass pounding".
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  15. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    That's not reasonable to the people of Northern Ireland. And to those who will be killed because such an act will reignite the troubles. Nothing short of Status Quo between the two major islands in terms of borders is going to keep the peace here.
    The problem is that Nymrohd's solution is deliverable - the brexiteers fantasies aren't, and with no border on Ireland, and no border in the Irish sea, there can't be any brexit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    It's honestly insane to me that any political party would sit back and prevaricate over a clearly deeply divisive issue. Take a fucking stand. If the other party is promising to go through with Brexit, say you'll stop it. Then let the people have an actual choice at the next election.

    At the moment the choice is "how much will the EU spit on its cock before giving the UK a no-lube ass pounding".
    because if labour had done the 'good' thing and opposed brexit, it's likely that the Tories would have had their majority (not a large one, but one) - This wouldn't have altered the basic position in any way anyway, but labour would now be weaker.
    Because the core problem is that the brexiteers are still refusing to accept the necessary implications of the Irish problem.

  16. #2816
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    The problem is that Nymrohd's solution is deliverable - the brexiteers fantasies aren't, and with no border on Ireland, and no border in the Irish sea, there can't be any brexit.
    And any border at either place reignites the troubles. A border in either place means there is no peace, so it is not deliverable.

  17. #2817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    And any border at either place reignites the troubles. A border in either place means there is no peace, so it is not deliverable.
    Yes, but this effectively makes Brexit impossible, doesn't matter if all the bad things the brexiteers say are true, it still wouldn't be possible.
    Of course, they pretend this problem is solvable if only the mean EU would relent, and entertain their fantasies about a border that exists somewhere, but not on Ireland, or in the Irish sea - Maybe the lothian line could work as a border?

  18. #2818
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Yes, but this effectively makes Brexit impossible, doesn't matter if all the bad things the brexiteers say are true, it still wouldn't be possible.
    Of course, they pretend this problem is solvable if only the mean EU would relent, and entertain their fantasies about a border that exists somewhere, but not on Ireland, or in the Irish sea - Maybe the lothian line could work as a border?

    such fantasies should stop within ~ 10 weeks. what will be their new dream then ?

  19. #2819
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    such fantasies should stop within ~ 10 weeks. what will be their new dream then ?
    Maybe that if May had some balls, she could force the EU to cooperate?

  20. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Maybe that if May had some balls, she could force the EU to cooperate?
    balls has nothing to do with it, you need leverage.

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