"But it's optional!"

[Ranganathan]

Gods. I am so tired of seeing this bandied about as if it were the end-all be-all of counter arguments.

It's not a counter argument. It's an affirmative defense. If you're on trial for murder and you say, "Yes, I killed them but here's my reason," that's an affirmative defense. You're admitting to the charges but saying it's acceptable because of something. In WoW and other MMOs, "it's optional" is an affirmative defense.

"This grind is so boring!"

"It's optional!"

You're not refuting that it's a boring ass grind, you're affirming that it's a boring ass grind. Yes, it's boring, but it's optional.

Literally everything in the game is optional. The problem is there's different levels of optional. Leveling is optional, but it's the only way to unlock content. Artifacts are enitrely optional, but they're also one of the primary focus points of the entire Legion expansion. You don't have to use them. But they're not as optional as say a vanity mount that takes months to grind out.

"It's optional" is a really dumb, meaningless, and hollow thing to say.

Pointing out that something in a video game is boring or takes too long is a perfectly valid criticism. Games should be fun. It's really not hard to figure out. A video game being boring is a flaw, not a feature. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.

[stomination]

Gods. I am so tired of seeing this bandied about as if it were the end-all be-all of counter arguments.

It's not a counter argument. It's an affirmative defense. If you're on trial for murder and you say, "Yes, I killed them but here's my reason," that's an affirmative defense. You're admitting to the charges but saying it's acceptable because of something. In WoW and other MMOs, "it's optional" is an affirmative defense.

"This grind is so boring!"

"It's optional!"

You're not refuting that it's a boring ass grind, you're affirming that it's a boring ass grind. Yes, it's boring, but it's optional.

Literally everything in the game is optional. The problem is there's different levels of optional. Leveling is optional, but it's the only way to unlock content. Artifacts are enitrely optional, but they're also one of the primary focus points of the entire Legion expansion. You don't have to use them. But they're not as optional as say a vanity mount that takes months to grind out.

"It's optional" is a really dumb, meaningless, and hollow thing to say.

Pointing out that something in a video game is boring or takes too long is a perfectly valid criticism. Games should be fun. It's really not hard to figure out. A video game being boring is a flaw, not a feature. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.

Actually I think it means if you hate it....why are u still doing it.

[Gungnir]

Before everyone flaming you and going "BUT IT'S OPTIONAL LMAO" or "JUST DON'T PLAY IT THEN!".

I'm upset about the amount of mandatory content that is just not fun because it's often relegated by RNG or just endless grinding, not because I'm a hater but because I love the game and I am passionate about it. I've played this game for 12 years and I want it to be fun, I have every right to be critical about these points of the game that many dislike.

Not every person has to be either shunned or forced to enjoy things. People are allowed to be unhappy with the game and want change, and still play the game.


EDIT; and by mandatory content, it does differ from person to person of course. As someone who enjoys playing his class to the fullest extent and raiding, aswell as having alts, it is INCREASINGLY hard to justify the endless RNG legendary grind and AP grind because it just shits on what I enjoy with the game.
And again, before you go "BUT STOP PLAYING THEN LMAO", I'll refer to the above points.

[Torrasque]

In all seriousness, if something is boring and you don't see a value in your efforts, the realistic notion is, in a matter of deduction, not to involve yourself with it. If it is, in fact, optional, then it is your option to play it. Those that see value in it will do it, regardless, and that doesn't have to be you if you do not want to.

[Nasuuna]

I feel like this is a pathfinder complaint casting a wide net

[Aeula]

Breathing is optional too.

Actually, fuck it. Everything is optional. That doesn't excuse everything in life from criticism.

[Shakou]

I'm upset about the amount of mandatory content

There is no mandatory content. It is all 100% optional. It's a fucking video game.

[Hctaz]

In all seriousness, if something is boring and you don't see a value in your efforts, the realistic notion is, in a matter of deduction, not to involve yourself with it. If it is, in fact, optional, then it is your option to play it. Those that see value in it will do it, regardless, and that doesn't have to be you if you do not want to.

But that's not the case with WoW. It isn't like everything is actually optional. If you're a raider then there are certain steps you HAVE to take to be a raider. There are certain steps to any game, but there were an absurd amount of repeated grinding at the very beginning of the expansion. Normally a raider gets to the point where they just simply need to log in for raid times and not need to do other shit. That's generally pretty quickly. Like... maybe 4 weeks into the new expansion. That didn't happen until at least Tomb for most people. That's an entire year of needing to log in and do repetitive bullshit just to maintain the fun you have being a raider. There's no longer any enjoyment in farming AP 1 year into the damn game. You just have to do it to maintain your spot as a raider basically. That's not fun at all.

[Gungnir]

There is no mandatory content. It is all 100% optional. It's a fucking video game.

If you bothered to even read a few more lines, my post would've answered your asinine comment.

[Deleted]

True

There is nothing more stupid on debates like:
-Flying
-Leveling in Dungeons VS Leveling in the World

...when someone says "but is optional"
It's the most stupid thing i have ever heard And people say it A LOT!

[Omnoms]

Calling it a grind makes it sound mandatory. That you MUST grind this to achieve what ever.

There is nothing at the end of this rainbow. There's just more.
It's just there.

Moderate your self. Leave it be.
It doesn't make the encounters easier, unless you're literally splitting hairs with damage.
The necessary content should come as you progress. The rest is fluff and filler.

[Hctaz]

True

There is nothing more stupid on debates like:
-Flying
-Leveling in Dungeons VS Leveling in the World

...when someone says "but is optional"
It's the most stupid thing i have ever heard And people say it A LOT!

People trying to claim flying is optional make me laugh.

Walking vs driving in real life is an option too, but would you walk 30 miles to work? No. There's comes a point where the convenience completely outweighs the fun. I don't care how much fun you may have walking, you aren't going to walk 10+ miles to work and back every day when there is a more convenient option available.

[Torrasque]

But that's not the case with WoW. It isn't like everything is actually optional. If you're a raider then there are certain steps you HAVE to take to be a raider. There are certain steps to any game, but there were an absurd amount of repeated grinding at the very beginning of the expansion. Normally a raider gets to the point where they just simply need to log in for raid times and not need to do other shit. That's generally pretty quickly. Like... maybe 4 weeks into the new expansion. That didn't happen until at least Tomb for most people. That's an entire year of needing to log in and do repetitive bullshit just to maintain the fun you have being a raider. There's no longer any enjoyment in farming AP 1 year into the damn game. You just have to do it to maintain your spot as a raider basically. That's not fun at all.

Then your issue is with playing the game, and that is still optional. You shouldn't waste both your time and your money, funding and promoting something that you do not like and do not enjoy, as it only encourages that product to become more of what you do not enjoy or wish to promote.

[Hctaz]

Then your issue is with playing the game, and that is still optional. You shouldn't waste both your time and your money, funding and promoting something that you do not like and do not enjoy, as it only encourages that product to become more of what you do not enjoy or wish to promote.

Except for when you enjoy raiding???? I didn't say I hated the raid content, just the bullshit they make raiders do outside of it.

[Shakou]

If you bothered to even read a few more lines, my post would've answered your asinine comment.

Why would I bother? It's a video game and you're arguing that some content in said video game is mandatory. I didn't ask a fucking question I made a statement. You don't answer statements you answers QUESTIONS.

[Gungnir]

Why would I bother?

Then why would you bother responding?
You could just keep it to yourself, posting asinine comments is entirely optional so why do it?
It's a forum, you can go without posting because it isn't adding much to the conversation, now is it?

[Tradu]

Calling it a grind makes it sound mandatory. That you MUST grind this to achieve what ever.

There is nothing at the end of this rainbow. There's just more.
It's just there.

Moderate your self. Leave it be.
It doesn't make the encounters easier, unless you're literally splitting hairs with damage.
The necessary content should come as you progress. The rest is fluff and filler.

So what you're saying is you've never done any of the hard content in the game, where stuff like artifact traits and legendaries do make a difference.

[Zyky]

Gods. I am so tired of seeing this bandied about as if it were the end-all be-all of counter arguments.

It's not a counter argument. It's an affirmative defense. If you're on trial for murder and you say, "Yes, I killed them but here's my reason," that's an affirmative defense. You're admitting to the charges but saying it's acceptable because of something. In WoW and other MMOs, "it's optional" is an affirmative defense.

"This grind is so boring!"

"It's optional!"

You're not refuting that it's a boring ass grind, you're affirming that it's a boring ass grind. Yes, it's boring, but it's optional.

Literally everything in the game is optional. The problem is there's different levels of optional. Leveling is optional, but it's the only way to unlock content. Artifacts are enitrely optional, but they're also one of the primary focus points of the entire Legion expansion. You don't have to use them. But they're not as optional as say a vanity mount that takes months to grind out.

"It's optional" is a really dumb, meaningless, and hollow thing to say.

Pointing out that something in a video game is boring or takes too long is a perfectly valid criticism. Games should be fun. It's really not hard to figure out. A video game being boring is a flaw, not a feature. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.

There's a very fine line between optional and mandatory. The 2 big grinds of Legion ARE in fact mandatory if you want to do kind of semi-serious raiding or M+ group. No guild pushing semi decent progression guild will take a Mage who only has Blink Shield Chest and Norgannon's as their two legendaries. No semi decent progression guild will take someone under 75 artifact traits. Using "its optional" as an argument doesn't apply when guilds are REQUIRING IT out of you.

[Shakou]

Then why would you bother responding?
You could just keep it to yourself, posting asinine comments is entirely optional so why do it?
It's a forum, you can go without posting because it isn't adding much to the conversation, now is it?

Jesus fucking Christ dude, is English your second language?

You posted this: I'm upset about the amount of mandatory content

I responded with this: There is no mandatory content. It is all 100% optional. It's a fucking video game.

It's pretty fucking self explanatory.

Stop typing. Go outside and get some fresh air and think before you post lmfao.

[Seranthor]

Gods. I am so tired of seeing this bandied about as if it were the end-all be-all of counter arguments.

It's not a counter argument. It's an affirmative defense. If you're on trial for murder and you say, "Yes, I killed them but here's my reason," that's an affirmative defense. You're admitting to the charges but saying it's acceptable because of something. In WoW and other MMOs, "it's optional" is an affirmative defense.

"This grind is so boring!"

"It's optional!"

You're not refuting that it's a boring ass grind, you're affirming that it's a boring ass grind. Yes, it's boring, but it's optional.

Literally everything in the game is optional. The problem is there's different levels of optional. Leveling is optional, but it's the only way to unlock content. Artifacts are enitrely optional, but they're also one of the primary focus points of the entire Legion expansion. You don't have to use them. But they're not as optional as say a vanity mount that takes months to grind out.

"It's optional" is a really dumb, meaningless, and hollow thing to say.

Pointing out that something in a video game is boring or takes too long is a perfectly valid criticism. Games should be fun. It's really not hard to figure out. A video game being boring is a flaw, not a feature. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.

Gods. I am so tired of people making subjective claims and treating them as some statement of universal fact.

Thats tragic that you perceive something as 'boring'... Others, might not agree.

Dont like something? Do something constructive about it. Complaining while offering no solution isn't constructive, It's petty and childish.

Instead of howling about something being 'boring'... which, at best, is a subjective claim... why not offer a solution?