"But it's optional!"

[Omnoms]

So what you're saying is you've never done any of the hard content in the game, where stuff like artifact traits and legendaries do make a difference.

I haven't bothered with cutting edge mythic, you're right.
I have bothered with regular weekly runs of mythic.

There is no point to reach. There is nothing to grind to and as such, it rings hollow when people whinge at this grind, except they can't tell where they grind towards.

[spleen1015]

I optionally decide not to read this thread.

[Tradu]

Jesus fucking Christ dude, is English your second language?

You posted this: I'm upset about the amount of mandatory content

I responded with this: There is no mandatory content. It is all 100% optional. It's a fucking video game.

It's pretty fucking self explanatory.

Stop typing. Go outside and get some fresh air and think before you post lmfao.

Yes, so what you're saying is you missed the entire point of the thread, good job.

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I haven't bothered with cutting edge mythic, you're right.
I have bothered with regular weekly runs of mythic.

There is no point to reach. There is nothing to grind to and as such, it rings hollow when people whinge at this grind, except they can't tell where they grind towards.

A stronger character to make progress in raids faster. It's pretty obvious. Sure, there's no "end" anymore, which is part of the problem.

[Gungnir]

lmfao.

I'll refer to my previous post, posting is optional and you're not really adding much to the conversation, now are ya bud?

It's more like watching a small toddler self-combust over the notion that someone might not have the same opinion that he has, being the oh-so-evolved and hardcore though guy on a WoW forum.

[Omnoms]

Yes, so what you're saying is you missed the entire point of the thread, good job.

Because people disagree doesn't mean they're missing the point.
They're fundamentally disagreeing with you.
The view that content MUST be pushed ALL at once, which is practically what you're saying if you're calling AP a grind, then you're taking a game and setting your own restrictions and goals.
This is your problem.

[Tradu]

Gods. I am so tired of people making subjective claims and treating them as some statement of universal fact.

Thats tragic that you perceive something as 'boring'... Others, might not agree.

Dont like something? Do something constructive about it. Complaining while offering no solution isn't constructive, It's petty and childish.

Instead of howling about something being 'boring'... which, at best, is a subjective claim... why not offer a solution?

First of all, solutions are offered constantly, second of all Blizzard has said they don't want to be told solutions, they want to be told about the problems and then come up with their own solutions(which is also pretty clear from the fact that they keep coming up with stupid solutions instead of just using the ones that have been repeatedly suggested to them by the community)

[Omnoms]

A stronger character to make progress in raids faster. It's pretty obvious. Sure, there's no "end" anymore, which is part of the problem.

The meaningful jumps can hardly be coming from the legionfall proc compared to jumps in gear.

[Tradu]

Because people disagree doesn't mean they're missing the point.
They're fundamentally disagreeing with you.
The view that content MUST be pushed ALL at once, which is practically what you're saying if you're calling AP a grind, then you're taking a game and setting your own restrictions and goals.
This is your problem.

No, in Shakou's case he's definitely missing the point and not even trying to have a discussion, he's just trolling(as usual)

[Kazuchika]

There's a very fine line between optional and mandatory. The 2 big grinds of Legion ARE in fact mandatory if you want to do kind of semi-serious raiding or M+ group. No guild pushing semi decent progression guild will take a Mage who only has Blink Shield Chest and Norgannon's as their two legendaries. No semi decent progression guild will take someone under 75 artifact traits. Using "its optional" as an argument doesn't apply when guilds are REQUIRING IT out of you.

Any guild pushing semi decent progress at this point will take someone who actually wants to show up every night irregardless of legendaries.

[Lochton]

Well, it is a segment of the game that you find boring and some don't. It IS optional after all, just like PvE, PvP, RP, etc etc etc is. And sorry, a grind in almost every MMO, is a thing. It is an MMO, it is meant to consume more of your time for, for example, preparing you for a battle. etc.

in the end, subjective opinions.

It is optional. You don't HAVE to do it. If you feel forced to do it, then that is your own fault.

[Tradu]

The meaningful jumps can hardly be coming from the legionfall proc compared to jumps in gear.

Because the only state of the game that has ever existed is the current one on live where everybody has 75 traits in every spec, right? The AP grind going into EN/ToV/NH definitely made a noticeable difference. Legendaries made a huge difference until around late NH when people had all/most legendaries for their main spec. Gear... is also part of that grind, specifically from M+.

[Omnoms]

Any guild pushing semi decent progress at this point will take someone who actually wants to show up every night irregardless of legendaries.

This right here.
A competent player, with good attendance and the ability to adapt to mechanics, gear correctly( Regardless of poor legendaries) will be brought.

I play my DK and we're venturing into mythic. Unholy specc'd. I have the Bracers and the Deathlord ring. 2nd rate legendaries compared to Shoulders and Chest.
I am still brought.
Does it bug me that I haven't got the BiS legendaries? Yeh, why not, it's no different to not getting BiS weapon traits etc. down the line to me.

[Tradu]

Well, it is a segment of the game that you find boring and some don't. It IS optional after all, just like PvE, PvP, RP, etc etc etc is. And sorry, a grind in almost every MMO, is a thing. It is an MMO, it is meant to consume more of your time for, for example, preparing you for a battle. etc.

in the end, subjective opinions.

It is optional. You don't HAVE to do it. If you feel forced to do it, then that is your own fault.

Or it's a flaw in the design of the game, both are possible. Blaming the player for everything is bullshit.

[Omnoms]

Or it's a flaw in the design of the game, both are possible. Blaming the player for everything is bullshit.

Personal responsibility is a difficult thing to deal with when dealing with games.

[Deleted]

A video game being boring is a flaw, not a feature.

A game is bad to person A and the greatest ever to person B. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.

[Seefer]

This is one of the things that put me off the game this expansion after dealing with it for so long..........want a certain mount or skin that requires PVP but hate PVP? Too bad! Want a mount that requires raiding but hate raiding? TOO BAD! Want mounts that require dailies but hate dailies? TOO BAD!

[Kuntantee]

When people say "optional", they mean there is an alternative way of achieving the goal you are trying to achieve. Neither leveling nor artifacts are optional in that sense.

[Shakou]

Yes, so what you're saying is you missed the entire point of the thread, good job.

No my point is that you and some other people here suck at English. My point is part of OPs point. In fact what I said is basically in the OP. Which you clearly didn't read or are incapable of understanding.

Tl;Dr op was saying it's stupid to say "but it's optional" because it's *get this* a fucking video game and therefore it's all optional. Which in plain English means NOT MANDATORY.

More info here: Hookedonphonics.com

They'll have you reading and comprehending plain English in no time.

[Tradu]

Personal responsibility is a difficult thing to deal with when dealing with games.

Again, no game is perfect, and claiming that everything is the fault of the player is not helping improve anything.

[Lochton]

Or it's a flaw in the design of the game, both are possible. Blaming the player for everything is bullshit.

I am technically not blaming the player. The player creates the need, what is needed is available for a little work, the player cannot comprehend having to work for it. The player resolves in using a tool to achieve the need the player had in the first place. For an MMO where things is about achieving and better yourself, you cannot expect every aspect to be hippity-hop and cheerful nonstop, look at Wildstar, they tried it and it became obnoxious.