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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Except for when you enjoy raiding???? I didn't say I hated the raid content, just the bullshit they make raiders do outside of it.
    Since this has ALWAYS been the case for optimal raiding, since Vanilla... you knew going in that “raiding” would require a lot of “not raiding”... or if you started in Vanilla, youve known for 13 years or so, and had many opportunities to walk away.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    A game is bad to person A and the greatest ever to person B. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.
    Amen, not religious but, amen.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Since this has ALWAYS been the case for optimal raiding, since Vanilla... you knew going in that “raiding” would require a lot of “not raiding”... or if you started in Vanilla, youve known for 13 years or so, and had many opportunities to walk away.
    And no expansion has required as much "not raiding" in order to raid optimally as Legion. The issue isn't that there's some stuff you have to do outside of raiding, it's that the amount is extremely overwhelming(and it's very repetitive and easy)
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Actually I think it means if you hate it....why are u still doing it.
    I want to unlock Highmountain Tauren. Finishing all the quests in Highmountain puts me at about 0/12000 Honored. I've got to reach Exalted before they unlock. So I've got to earn 33,000 rep with Highmountain to unlock them. Okay. Fine. But the main way to do that is WQs...that give 75 rep each. Which is 440 Highmountain WQs. At only 5-7 per day...that's about 3 months of solid daily grinding. And that's for one of the four allied races. You've got to repeat that arduous grind for each one. Yeah, "they're optional", but so is every race except humans and orcs. You could even argue that most classes are optional. Yet all the other races are freely available and only the two hero classes have gates, one being a level 55 character to unlock dks (which has been removed) and now the dhs which require a level 70 character. But leveling is the bare minimum gameplay. Having races unlock after a months long rep grind that's locked behind a max level toon with friendly rep with four factions is fucking stupid.

    I don't know if you were around when Belfs, Draenai, Worgen, Goblins, and Pandaren were released, but damn...those were some fucking grinds to unlock. I mean...oh, wait. No, there wasn't a grind.

    That's my specific complaint. But it's a general problem with WoW and other MMOs. Getting to play with the neat and interesting stuff shouldn't require a months long part-time job just to unlock. Yeah, it's a part of the genre, but it's a shitty part of the genre. I like playing WoW, especially the non-grindy bits; but the grinds are getting worse and worse, yet some fans are cheering this on. WTF?

    In no other genre will you see fans say anything remotely like: "It's so boring." "I know, isn't it great!" Yet we get that all the time.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Since this has ALWAYS been the case for optimal raiding, since Vanilla... you knew going in that “raiding” would require a lot of “not raiding”... or if you started in Vanilla, youve known for 13 years or so, and had many opportunities to walk away.
    The amount of "non-raiding" you had to do in Vanilla doesn't even begin to compare to the amount you have to do in Legion.
    And this is coming from a guy that mained a warlock in Vanilla.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    And no expansion has required as much "not raiding" in order to raid optimally as Legion. The issue isn't that there's some stuff you have to do outside of raiding, it's that the amount is extremely overwhelming(and it's very repetitive and easy)
    ... youre out of your damn mind if you think that is true. Just farming mats for consumables in TBC and Wrath could take 10-15 hours a week.

  7. #47
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  8. #48
    Personally I like grinds a lot. There’s a huge difference between grinding MoS 1000 times and doing the MoP legendary quest line. Both were grinds but the latter was the only one that was fun imo.

    It all depends how the grind is done. I love the pathfinder grind because it involves doing a lot of shit like completing quest lines/story lines, exploring, rep grinding, etc. it’s not just doing the same thing over and over, it’s a mix of different parts of the game which is really fun.

    People get upset with rep grinding (like the OP) even though it’s fairly trivial with emissaries, rep quests, world quests, etc. I’d much rather have a rep grind than not. It doesn’t feel like a chore, it feels like something I’m working towards whether it’s for a mount, tabard, enchant, etc. It doesn’t take a long time to do anymore anyway.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2018-01-06 at 09:15 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    And no expansion has required as much "not raiding" in order to raid optimally as Legion. The issue isn't that there's some stuff you have to do outside of raiding, it's that the amount is extremely overwhelming(and it's very repetitive and easy)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    The amount of "non-raiding" you had to do in Vanilla doesn't even begin to compare to the amount you have to do in Legion.
    And this is coming from a guy that mained a warlock in Vanilla.
    What? You had to gear up and get AP, the rest was a line of quests that were easy mode. You didn't have to do much else. Wasn't really much work.

    In previous content mostly, you had to top up on food, potions, flasks, reagents, and soulshards for some.

    Felt like more work than just having to chase AP which has become easy-mode and calculated to only need to go to lvl 75.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  10. #50
    ZOMG something isn't fun in a video game! Don't do it then, it's optional. Find something that's fun for you. Problem solved.
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  11. #51
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    Legion has given you less stuff to prepare than in the past.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    The amount of "non-raiding" you had to do in Vanilla doesn't even begin to compare to the amount you have to do in Legion.
    .... your memory is shite if you believe that to be true. Hydraxian Waterlord rep alone was absurd. Farming for pots and flasks could be 20+ hours a week.

    And this is coming from a guy that mained a warlock in Vanilla.
    Yep. Me too. 10 minutes farming soul shards in Felwood sure was tough.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    What? You had to gear up and get AP, the rest was a line of quests that were easy mode. You didn't have to do much else. Wasn't really much work.

    In previous content mostly, you had to top up on food, potions, flasks, reagents, and soulshards for some.

    Felt like more work than just having to chase AP which has become easy-mode and calculated to only need to go to lvl 75.
    Took me about 2 days to get to 930 ilvl lol, however I will say if you despise dailies like I do it's like ripping your fingernails out with a rusted knife.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Gods. I am so tired of people making subjective claims and treating them as some statement of universal fact.

    Thats tragic that you perceive something as 'boring'... Others, might not agree.

    Dont like something? Do something constructive about it. Complaining while offering no solution isn't constructive, It's petty and childish.

    Instead of howling about something being 'boring'... which, at best, is a subjective claim... why not offer a solution?
    Solutions: Don't gate new races. Have the WQs give more rep. Don't design the game badly then try to convince people that repetitive grinds are somehow fun.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serissa View Post
    ZOMG something isn't fun in a video game! Don't do it then, it's optional. Find something that's fun for you. Problem solved.
    The problem is they put a huge carrot on a stick for each thing, want a specific mount? Do content you hate etc. just to get people to do the content even though they hate it.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    A game is bad to person A and the greatest ever to person B. It would be great if people didn't pretend otherwise.
    There's a vast excluded middle where players can like some parts of a game but not others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    WoW would be a great game if it weren't an MMO.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    .... your memory is shite if you believe that to be true. Hydraxian Waterlord rep alone was absurd. Farming for pots and flasks could be 20+ hours a week.



    Yep. Me too. 10 minutes farming soul shards in Felwood sure was tough.
    20+ hours a week?
    Either you were doing something horribly wrong, or your memory is just shot to shit.
    Feel free to start up a character on Nostalrius/Elysium and come back to me on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco
    Legion has given you less stuff to prepare than in the past.
    Again, clearly you either did something wrong in the past or your memory is just all kinds of wonky.
    Vanilla didn't require you to run one instance over 700+ times because otherwise you were doing a lot less damage, aka early Legion MoS AP farm.
    Vanilla didn't require you to spam the living shit out of all the instances, raids, even stuff that you vastly outgeared and had no use out of, just to have a small chance to get an item that would vastly increase your damage.
    Vanilla didn't have a "base" system that required you to farm resources for a good few months to get all of your followers up and running.


    EDIT; something that's even better to consider is that, by just grinding Tyr's about an hour or two a day, you had enough gold to literally buy the mats you required and save you time.
    Time which apparently was 20+ hours a week.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    The problem is they put a huge carrot on a stick for each thing, want a specific mount? Do content you hate etc. just to get people to do the content even though they hate it.
    Right. And all that instead of just making the content fun and enjoyable in the first place.

    It's really funny how every negative reaction to the threat is a dismissive attempt to shut down conversation. I don't know about you, but I'd rather talk about it and see some improvements to the actual game. I don't think anyone at Blizz gives a fuck about my opinion, but if these kinds of conversation were actually allowed to happen instead of thread-crapped constantly maybe some good stuff might actually get through.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
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  19. #59
    It's perfectly valid in some cases.

    Like people crying about flying mounts but using them anyway.

    When were artifacts claimed to be optional? They are a key feature of Legion.

    Aside from that, I've got nothing to say. Actually, I'm not fully sure what your point is. Do you mean to say something needs to be changed because you don't like it?

    Also, Isn't 'boring' subjective?

    Do you mean you just want everything handed to you without doing anything?

  20. #60
    It all depends on the goal you set for yourself. Some goals require more effort or luck than others. However, some things got more time consuming lately and Blizzard definitely tries to keep people playing by artificially stretching things out.

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