1. #7541
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    pretty sure i'm going to beat a junkrat player's face in with a rock if i get solo ulted one more time when mercy is one hit



    i'm just going to accept that you're bronze
    Not at all, and you can easily go check that up yourself, I don't bother to hide, I've said before that I'm plat, with the only season I bothered past placements being diamond. But hey, I'm sure that proves something right, all the overwatch devs are grandmaster because you need to have a high ranking to know the game right?

    You're the one comparing Bastions dps to Mercy's hps and thinking that proves something though. You're just digging yourself a hole.

    I disagree with Ravex, but at least he knows what he's talking about.
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2018-01-07 at 12:48 AM.

  2. #7542
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Not at all, and you can easily go check that up yourself, I don't bother to hide, I've said before that I'm plat, with the only season I bothered past placements being diamond. But hey, I'm sure that proves something right, all the overwatch devs are grandmaster because you need to have a high ranking to know the game right?

    You're the one comparing Bastions dps to Mercy's hps and thinking that proves something though. You're just digging yourself a hole.

    I disagree with Ravex, but at least he knows what he's talking about.
    The higher rated you are the better you know the game, the better you are at the game.

    This is why I, a masters player, join 1v1s with top 500 and GM players, because they are better than me, know the game better than me and trying to 1v1 them and ask them what I can do better is a great way to grow.

    I don't know if it is all your egos preventing you from seeing something that so axiomatic.

  3. #7543
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    Feel free to back that up with any information other then you saying it.
    Very well.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Competitive Play Hero Playtime from 8/2-8/9:

    Mercy (by a HUGE long shot)
    D.Va
    Lucio
    Genji
    Soldier: 76
    Winston
    Ana
    Zarya
    Reinhardt
    McCree
    Zenyatta
    Reaper
    Doomfist
    Pharah
    Tracer
    Hanzo
    Junkrat
    Mei
    Symmetra
    Widowmaker
    Torbjorn
    Roadhog
    Orisa
    Bastion
    Sombra
    Source: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...page=5#post-89

    From August. Her rework went live in September.

  4. #7544
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    The higher rated you are the better you know the game, the better you are at the game.

    This is why I, a masters player, join 1v1s with top 500 and GM players, because they are better than me, know the game better than me and trying to 1v1 them and ask them what I can do better is a great way to grow.

    I don't know if it is all your egos preventing you from seeing something that so axiomatic.
    Knowledge skill =/= Mechanical skill.

    I can know where to stand, what to do, and how to play every hero in the game.

    That doesn't matter if I can't aim, or turn fast, etc.
    Also hilarious you'd say that when one of the creators of the game is Platinum, but hey, "egos" eh?
    http://mashable.com/2017/03/14/overw.../#Nu_f3UR5UkqZ

  5. #7545
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Knowledge skill =/= Mechanical skill.

    I can know where to stand, what to do, and how to play every hero in the game.

    That doesn't matter if I can't aim, or turn fast, etc.
    Also hilarious you'd say that when one of the creators of the game is Platinum, but hey, "egos" eh?
    http://mashable.com/2017/03/14/overw.../#Nu_f3UR5UkqZ
    Is him being in platinum supposed to contradict what I said?

    There is more nuance to climbing than just mechanical skill.

  6. #7546
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Is him being in platinum supposed to contradict what I said?

    There is more nuance to climbing than just mechanical skill.
    Your original claim was the higher the more you know.

    That's not inherently true. I could be bronze and still know as much about the game as a Grandmaster if I just couldn't execute it any of the knowledge.

    Hence why trying to judge someone's argument on their ranking is just ridiculous, and if someone feels the need to actually stoop low enough to try to use the rank as a copout, it just goes to show they really don't know what they're talking about.

    Also, yes, I would imagine one of the creators of the game would know a bit more than most players do, regardless of their ranking.

  7. #7547
    This is like seeing some casual YMCA pool user saying they know as much about swimming as Micheal Phelps.

    It is just ridiculous, sorry.

  8. #7548
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    Yea Mercy has that too, you negate the ult by ressing the people. You can also be active in a fight elsewhere before you negate the ult!

    Good point.
    So then in your opinion Lucio and Zen are OP because they can negate ults.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #7549
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    This is like seeing some casual YMCA pool user saying they know as much about swimming as Micheal Phelps.

    It is just ridiculous, sorry.
    What is it with you all and your horrible comparisons. Are you seriously comparing a video game to an athletic event? And are you seriously doing it that horribly?

    Or are you going to try to claim every single announcer for any Overwatch event ever is a Grandmaster player, I mean, they must be since they know so much about the game right?

  10. #7550
    I am Murloc! Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    What is it with you all and your horrible comparisons. Are you seriously comparing a video game to an athletic event? And are you seriously doing it that horribly?

    Or are you going to try to claim every single announcer for any Overwatch event ever is a Grandmaster player, I mean, they must be since they know so much about the game right?


    Rule #1 with the Overwatch community, when you have no facts to back up your BS use even worse BS to back up your original BS.

    If that doesn't work get the person making you look like an ass banned.
    History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

  11. #7551
    It is funny how salty you two are.

    Especially you seefer, when you should be grateful that I took the time to look at your footage and tell you where you could improve.

  12. #7552
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    It is funny how salty you two are.

    Especially you seefer, when you should be grateful that I took the time to look at your footage and tell you where you could improve.
    ...Yeah...and we're the ones with the ego and salt.

    You made a claim, I proved it wrong, and now you're calling us salty.
    Ranking means little to nothing when it comes to game knowledge, since ranking is a combination of execution and knowledge.

    One can have tons of knowledge, and not be able to execute it.
    One can be able to execute everything, but no knowledge of how anything works.

    So calling someone out on their rank means literally nothing except "Alas, I've run out of facts!". No salt here though, if that's what you want, sorry to disappoint.

  13. #7553
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

    Try again.
    Set it to Grandmaster, and last month.

    Or whatever the hell you want actually, no matter what Roadhog has a decent pick rate and positive win rate.
    That doesn't mean he's actually in a good position at the moment. He remains a free killable walking ult charge to anyone who can aim for his head decently and manage to not position themselves so they get a retard hook on them. He can't kill anyone reliably on his own after the nerf to his damage. That's what made him dangerous in the past, his damage. Now? He's not even certain to get a kill on someone he hooks. I've been hooked on reaper due to shit positioning only to maul roadhog down the instant hook is released, a hook in the past meant death.

  14. #7554
    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    That doesn't mean he's actually in a good position at the moment. He remains a free killable walking ult charge to anyone who can aim for his head decently and manage to not position themselves so they get a retard hook on them. He can't kill anyone reliably on his own after the nerf to his damage. That's what made him dangerous in the past, his damage. Now? He's not even certain to get a kill on someone he hooks. I've been hooked on reaper due to shit positioning only to maul roadhog down the instant hook is released, a hook in the past meant death.
    That assumes the Roadhog is stupid enough to stay right out in the open.

    He should be using cover to hook someone in, not allowing himself to be a free charge. Also ignores the rest of the team that can support him, like an Orisa barrier, or a Zarya bubble, and his heal causes him to take 50% less damage giving you 50% less ult charge from him. He can still get the pick off though with his hook, especially if someone helps him, or quickly melee and then shoot them.

  15. #7555
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    That assumes the Roadhog is stupid enough to stay right out in the open.

    He should be using cover to hook someone in, not allowing himself to be a free charge. Also ignores the rest of the team that can support him, like an Orisa barrier, or a Zarya bubble, and his heal causes him to take 50% less damage giving you 50% less ult charge from him. He can still get the pick off though with his hook, especially if someone helps him, or quickly melee and then shoot them.
    If he hooks someone it's because they're positioning badly. A soldier shouldn't be running in front of a rein shield as an example yet I see plenty of soldiers get hooked and killed that way. That's bad positioning, they should stay behind the rein shield.

  16. #7556
    Quote Originally Posted by Player Twelve View Post
    If he hooks someone it's because they're positioning badly. A soldier shouldn't be running in front of a rein shield as an example yet I see plenty of soldiers get hooked and killed that way. That's bad positioning, they should stay behind the rein shield.
    Reinhardt is among one of the least picked tanks right now as the ranking goes up though.

    And as his pick rate goes down, Roadhog's goes up.

  17. #7557
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Knowledge skill =/= Mechanical skill.

    I can know where to stand, what to do, and how to play every hero in the game.

    That doesn't matter if I can't aim, or turn fast, etc.
    Also hilarious you'd say that when one of the creators of the game is Platinum, but hey, "egos" eh?
    http://mashable.com/2017/03/14/overw.../#Nu_f3UR5UkqZ
    If you were to put in the time and dedication to rise up to master, you would be better then than you are now, would you not? This would consist not only of getting better mechanical skills, but better understanding of how a certain team comp will play out, in reading the map in the given situation, in understanding the finer nuances of each hero such as when to engage, etc. If you've ever played chess competitively, which unless you get very angry and start throwing things at the other player's eyes does not have any relevance mechanically, there's a difference between chess theory and chess knowledge. Chess theory is knowing the general strategies that you've picked up from a book and watching others; you know facts about how to proceed. Chess knowledge is theory ironed out by experience. You know the facts of how the strategy will proceed, and have the experience to implement and improvise in a wide variety of salient situations and conditions.

    Also, I do encourage you to watch dev videos and the like for... well all kinds of competitive multiplayer games with diverse hero pools. You'd be amazed how often the creators of OW, heroes, league, dota, smite, paragon, etc get completely surprised by how the community responds to their creations. This is why some heroes come out of the gates with the dev team thinking they're in a finished state, only to be completely under or overwhelming. Moira is a good current example of a hero who is currently overtuned. Roadhog was nerfed because his initial balancing didn't take into account those top 500 players who could consistently land hookshot after hookshot, making him as reliable a killer as widow as they innovate ways to implement his hookshot combo. That involves not only mechanical skills, but positioning, target prioritization, cooldown management, communication, and decision making for when to decide to go ahead and proceed with roadhog. And this comes into play because ultimately there is a disparity between Kaplan's practical knowledge and someone who puts in hundreds of hours into the game at the highest skill tier.

    It sounds like you're reciprocating over someone saying you have bronze level knowledge of the game, which I can understand, but you've erected a rather strange hill to defend on considering that the professional community nearly always outstrips the skill level of the developers. It isn't Kaplan's job to be good at the game. It's his job to manage the OW team and connect it to the rest of Blizzard. He could have the game sense of a puffin and it wouldn't impact his job capacity in the slightest.
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2018-01-07 at 05:51 AM.

  18. #7558
    Decent day I guess. Climbed some SR mainly playing Moira and Zen. Wish the last game had gone better, ended in a draw because 1/2 the team wouldn't go past choke. Now, I admit I made a mistake because we went dive comp and the tanks said they were diving hard, so I used Moira's SHIFT to make it thru the window on Hanamura. Go around the flank and no one is with me. I play the point a bit and announce to my team the enemy Hog is chasing me. About 30 seconds later o had the enemy Bastion, Torb, Mercy, AND Hog all chasing me around behind the building to the left of attackers side. Announce 4 of them are now on me and would be a good time to push in. Only member that came thru was our Lucio. My team finally decided to go past choke after the 2 of us died trying to get back to the team.
    We regroup, our Orissa complains they aren't getting healed. I mention they would if they'd come past the choke when we push instead of sitting in the door trying to hit Mercy dancing behind the bell.
    Still never comes in. Lucio swaps to Mercy. Our DVa Ults, scattering the enemy, kills 1, DVa, McCree, and I go in. We die 3v5, and inthe kill cam I see Orissa and Mercy chilling at the door. No idea where our Junk is at during this. Orissa never put her shield down past the door.
    Went from an easy win to a draw because 2-3 people were scared to push the whole time.

  19. #7559
    Pandaren Monk ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Fuck widowmaker mains. I'm sick of losing comp games because I get a widowmaker pug on KOTH maps and me telling them to switch is "being toxic"
    But dude, they have the right to play whatever they want! /sarcasm

    I feel for you immensely, as players who have picked the "highest skill required" heroes end up fucking
    me over too. Mostly because as I assume in your games, they did NOT have the skill to justify their
    picking said hero, and when it wasn't working (either by them not getting the required kills or them
    being hard countered), they stubbornly stayed with said heroes and well, we all know how that goes,
    99.99% of the time.

  20. #7560
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    If you were to put in the time and dedication to rise up to master, you would be better then than you are now, would you not? This would consist not only of getting better mechanical skills, but better understanding of how a certain team comp will play out, in reading the map in the given situation, in understanding the finer nuances of each hero such as when to engage, etc. If you've ever played chess competitively, which unless you get very angry and start throwing things at the other player's eyes does not have any relevance mechanically, there's a difference between chess theory and chess knowledge. Chess theory is knowing the general strategies that you've picked up from a book and watching others; you know facts about how to proceed. Chess knowledge is theory ironed out by experience. You know the facts of how the strategy will proceed, and have the experience to implement and improvise in a wide variety of salient situations and conditions.
    That assumes someone is going to put in the time and dedication.

    I could just spend all my time watching tournaments and indepth guides, and never touch the game because it doesn't interest me.
    The assumption that someone is going to put the effort in to grinding just because they have the knowledge is just that, an assumption.

    Also assumes the person enjoys it. I mean, I hate D.Va, but I know how to play her. And I do pretty well with her because of that. But I literally hate playing her. So I'm not going to force myself to play her to climb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Also, I do encourage you to watch dev videos and the like for... well all kinds of competitive multiplayer games with diverse hero pools. You'd be amazed how often the creators of OW, heroes, league, dota, smite, paragon, etc get completely surprised by how the community responds to their creations. This is why some heroes come out of the gates with the dev team thinking they're in a finished state, only to be completely under or overwhelming. Moira is a good current example of a hero who is currently overtuned. Roadhog was nerfed because his initial balancing didn't take into account those top 500 players who could consistently land hookshot after hookshot, making him as reliable a killer as widow as they innovate ways to implement his hookshot combo. That involves not only mechanical skills, but positioning, target prioritization, cooldown management, communication, and decision making for when to decide to go ahead and proceed with roadhog. And this comes into play because ultimately there is a disparity between Kaplan's practical knowledge and someone who puts in hundreds of hours into the game at the highest skill tier.
    I mean, there's a lot to read here, but...it's still assumptions that I don't already watch these things, and follow it.

    And they already said flat out while Roadhog was nerfed, it wasn't just because they didn't take into account landing hook after hook, it was because he felt bad to be yanked around corners, and his hook felt unfair.

    Notice his one shot wasn't nerf immediately until people kept rallying about "getting it removed", much like they are Mercy right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    It sounds like you're reciprocating over someone saying bronze level knowledge of the game, which I can understand, but you've erected a rather strange hill to defend on considering that the professional community nearly always outstrips the skill level of the developers. It isn't Kaplan's job to be good at the game. It's his job to manage the OW team and connect it to the rest of Blizzard. He could have the game sense of a puffin and it wouldn't impact his job capacity in the slightest.
    There's nothing odd about it. It's a statement of fact, nothing about "being good" means you don't have the knowledge of the game. You claim the professional community "outstrips the skill", but yet again, the skill is not just the knowledge. And even then, it's completely irrelevant to THIS specific situation, because what you're talking about is the type of players who are in a private discord with the Overwatch crew, giving suggestions and feedback, AKA the pro teams.

    It's not anyone on this site, that's for sure, nor is it going to be the casual forum goer in general. So it's perfectly reasonable considering the situation here to say "Ranking doesn't matter" when it comes to knowledge of the game. And I really don't see the point to try to stick up for people trying to smother opinions by saying "lol you're bronze" even when it's completely false.

    And yes, Jeff's knowledge of the game does matter, he can't be some useless robot that just accepts what any pro player comes to him about, otherwise he'd just be fired and replaced with said pro player. He has to be able to pick and choose what complaints are valid, and compare that to what information he has, and come to a conclusion based on that.

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