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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    On a grand scale, things don't happen overnight.

    I doubt we will se a huge change in 15 years.
    If say it will take about 10.000 years until the next major climate change.
    Hilarious - especially when we can view changes that are occurring already. Here, have a good read - https://www.edf.org/climate/how-clim...lunders-planet

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owenm View Post
    Hilarious - especially when we can view changes that are occurring already. Here, have a good read - https://www.edf.org/climate/how-clim...lunders-planet
    You seriously linked Environmental Defense Fund site?

    They will blow everything environmental out of proportion to get funded.
    Get me a neutral source.

    Besides, I don't see people dropping down and dying.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Again, technically, an "ice age" is when there are major ice sheets at the poles. We're in an ice age right now, and have been for millions of years; the Quaternary Ice Age.

    The expansion and contraction of those ice caps is what are labelled in popular terminology as "ice ages", but properly, those are "glacial periods", as opposed to "interglacial periods", like the one we're in right now.

    That glacial/interglacial cycle involves a global temperature shift on the order of about 10 degrees C, at the two extreme points. The problem is that these cycles are 80k-100k years long. They're marked by slow cooling, followed by a rapid warming event, followed by slow cooling. However, we're using "rapid" and "slow" in geologically relative terms, here. The "rapid" warming involves warming up by 10 degrees C over a span of about 6,000-7,000 years. That's about one degree every 650 years. That's "violently rapid", in terms of natural cycles.

    We've seen a degree in warming in the last 100 years, and 2/3 of that warming just in the last 50. We're way outside the scale of how quickly natural cycles occur. Worse, the glacial/interglacial cycle waffles between two extreme points on the temperature scale. We're currently near the warm peak of that cycle. We should be set for 50,000 years of steady cooling, left to natural cycles, not unnaturally rapid warming, which is threatening to pull us out of the Ice Age entirely (not immediately; the Antarctic ice cap in particular will take centuries to melt completely, but once it's gone it's highly unlikely to come back).

    Your own source is essentially pointing out that the planet can easily have different stable plateaus, climate-wise. And that's true. The problem is that all of human civilization has emerged during this last interglacial period. The human species has never existed outside of the climate conditions of an ice age. Human civilization has never had to deal with this kind of rapid climate shift on a global scale (and on a local scale, it's often resulted in the collapse/migration/extinction of a given society).

    Your own sources are essentially supporting that the planet hasn't seen this kind of climate change before, not outside of extinction-level events like major asteroid impacts. And even those had more long-term climate impact due to the effect of killing 95% of life on the planet in one fell swoop, than their direct impact.
    And? There is a first time for just about everything. The record temps for Ohio was set back in the 1930's. -39 F. But the record only goes back a hundred or so years. It was -37 F here in the 1980's one winter. I am sure the -39F will be broken too, eventually. I am sure it was much colder than that here sometime in the past.

    This ice age the thread is about, if it happens, will not be the result of anything man has did, but what the sun on occasions does. Nether of us will be alive to know what the future of ice on Greenland and Antarctica will be 100 - 500 years from now. It may even grow thicker. Al Gore predicted back in 2008, within 7 - 8 years, there would be times, during the summers, the North Pole regions would be completely free of any ice. I saw the video. He was full of shit of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Data? Cite?

    - - - Updated - - -
    https://www.eh-resources.org/timeline-middle-ages/ was more than just 1600's, but during the 1600's. Earth was experiencing what they call a Little Ice Age. It actually started in the 1300's.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    https://www.eh-resources.org/timeline-middle-ages/ was more than just 1600's, but during the 1600's. Earth was experiencing what they call a Little Ice Age. It actually started in the 1300's.
    It's been mentioned already, but that's just a name. It wasn't an actual ice age. Sort of like how The Big Bang wasn't a 'bang' of any sort at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    This ice age the thread is about, if it happens, will not be the result of anything man has did, but what the sun on occasions does. Nether of us will be alive to know what the future of ice on Greenland and Antarctica will be 100 - 500 years from now. It may even grow thicker. Al Gore predicted back in 2008, within 7 - 8 years, there would be times, during the summers, the North Pole regions would be completely free of any ice. I saw the video. He was full of shit of course.
    And what did scientists predict? This is probably rude, but frankly, Al Gore is simply an excuse to not address actual scientists at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    It's been mentioned already, but that's just a name. It wasn't an actual ice age. Sort of like how The Big Bang wasn't a 'bang' of any sort at all.

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    And what did scientists predict? This is probably rude, but frankly, Al Gore is simply an excuse to not address actual scientists at this point.
    Did you look at the chart? It said that North America may have experienced average temps drops of 2 degree C. And there is solid evidence parts of Europe during that period experienced much colder winters than normal. And they did not last just a few years. But decades.

    But he is one the of the top spokesmen for the Man Made Climate change agenda. So he should be on top of the recent data. :P

  6. #346
    Mean while in Fort Mcmurray alberta, one of the coldest places in canada typically, is currently -3 Degree outside...

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Did you look at the chart? It said that North America may have experienced average temps drops of 2 degree C. And there is solid evidence parts of Europe during that period experienced much colder winters than normal. And they did not last just a few years. But decades.

    But he is one the of the top spokesmen for the Man Made Climate change agenda. So he should be on top of the recent data. :P
    America and Europe are not the globe.

    And nobody appointed Al Gore as a spokesman. Any schmuck with enough prominence can become an advocate for anything. But at this point, you guys are insisting on addressing whatever Al Gore says instead of whatever scientists say.

    If you know Al Gore isn't a reliable source of information, why keep looking to him for climate change arguments? It comes across as totally dishonest.

    A decade ago, I was a skeptic. I actually sent "The Great Global Warming Swindle" to my physics teacher, which is a shame I'll have to live with. Why did I change? Because I grew a pair and actually started reading material from scientists instead of Al fucking Gore. In my experience, the people who stopped being skeptics all did so after they read or watched explanations from actual scientists.
    Last edited by Garnier Fructis; 2018-01-07 at 04:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnick View Post
    Mean while in Fort Mcmurray alberta, one of the coldest places in canada typically, is currently -3 Degree outside...
    Yeah. It was -10 F here this morning, but is suppose to warm up into the high 30's F here starting tomorrow. lol. Such is winters. I can remember one Jan, When I played golf here in Ohio, with a short sleeve shirt on. It was in the low 70's. Then I also remember the winter of 1977-78, when we had a record blizzard, with heavy snow and 70 mph winds. The road in front of our house was drifted over with 4 foot deep drifts. They had to use a bulldozer to open it up. The odd thing is the day before that storm hit, it was in the 50's and rainy.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Yeah. It was -10 F here this morning, but is suppose to warm up into the high 30's F here starting tomorrow. lol. Such is winters. I can remember one Jan, When I played golf here in Ohio, with a short sleeve shirt on. It was in the low 70's. Then I also remember the winter of 1977-78, when we had a record blizzard, with heavy snow and 70 mph winds. The road in front of our house was drifted over with 4 foot deep drifts. They had to use a bulldozer to open it up. The odd thing is the day before that storm hit, it was in the 50's and rainy.
    Man typically this time of year its -30 to -40 celius, Like right now its -3 Celius out. Its retarded

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    America and Europe are not the globe.

    And nobody appointed Al Gore as a spokesman. Any schmuck with enough prominence can become an advocate for anything. But at this point, you guys are insisting on addressing whatever Al Gore says instead of whatever scientists say.

    If you know Al Gore isn't a reliable source of information, why keep looking to him for climate change arguments? It comes across as totally dishonest.

    A decade ago, I was a skeptic. I actually sent "The Great Global Warming Swindle" to my physics teacher, which is a shame I'll have to live with. Why did I change? Because I grew a pair and actually started reading material from scientists instead of Al fucking Gore. In my experience, the people who stopped being skeptics all did so after they read or watched explanations from actual scientists.
    You are free to believe what you want. As I am. It has nothing to with having balls however. lol! But it can be a sign of immaturity to resort to insulting attacks rather then just a simple rebuttal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnick View Post
    Man typically this time of year its -30 to -40 celius, Like right now its -3 Celius out. Its retarded
    What was it a week or two ago?

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    You are free to believe what you want. As I am. It has nothing to with having balls however. lol! But it can be a sign of immaturity to resort to insulting attacks rather then just a simple rebuttal.
    It's not an insult. I'm saying that you're either too afraid or too lazy to look at actual climate info. And that is the cold hard truth, because only looking to non-scientists for information is a conscious choice.

    You are free to believe what you want. I am free to point out the above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    It's not an insult. I'm saying that you're either too afraid or too lazy to look at actual climate info. And that is the cold hard truth, because only looking to non-scientists for information is a conscious choice.

    You are free to believe what you want. I am free to point out the above.
    It is nether and once again, you resort to insults with someone you do not even know. Which can be a sign of immaturity. Not saying you are however.

    I am not saying humans have zero impact on global warming. The more serous impact they are having is not green house gases, but water, ground and air pollution. This is a far greater threat to the earth and all living species. Ice ages and such, are going to happen in spite of humans.

  13. #353
    The end of the world cant come soon enough.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    The end of the world cant come soon enough.
    Lol. Do not worry, it will for all of us eventually. But cheer up and do not think so negative, learn the lesson from the great movie, " It's a Wonderful Life ".

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWolf26 View Post
    This is a poor comparison as religion is based on truth and science is based on proven and repeatable experimentation. As someone once said, and I'm paraphrasing - "If you want truth, there's a scripture class down the hall. In here we teach fact."
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Science isn't a guessing game, and you don't get to imagine up whatever results you want from the data. Every known factor has been quantified with regards to explaining the warming trend we observe in every data source regarding global temperatures. The only factors that correlate with any degree of significance are anthropogenic GHG emissions and related secondary factors.

    Here's a graphic set from Bloomberg that's a couple years old that details this in relatively simple animated graphs, combining various factors;
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ing-the-world/

    If a scientist could figure out some other factor that nobody has ever thought of in the last ~50 years or so, out of tens of thousands of climate scientists, they'd get accolades. New ideas are presented all the time, and generally prove to not have had a significant effect; these get incorporated into models, and along with improved instrumentation, are why those models continually improve.

    If the question here is an algorithm, it may be an incredibly complicated algorithm, but it keeps spitting out exactly one answer, every time. And people don't want to admit that's the answer, so they refuse to admit it.

    But that's as ridiculous as claiming that 2+2 can't equal 4, because you don't want it to. They don't have a better argument. Not even a different argument. They have no argument. They just don't like the answer, so they say "nuh-uh" and stamp their feet, and start badmouthing and slandering scientists for not fabricating data to fit their ridiculous and baseless assumptions.
    Results are one thing, conclusions are another. "In Theory", we only can conclude what we can by what we've observed thus far. The way we've evolved our understanding of quantum physics is a perfect example of this. Using ice core samples and studying rock layers isn't an exact science but it gives us a good idea of how certain regional and global climates have changed over time. In truth, no rational scientist will admit that that the world has never heated (or cooled) at the current rate before because it's impossible to determine that given the information we have. Again, not saying humans aren't contributing to the current trend but we don't know well enough about the Earth's past to be able to make 100% certain conclusions that humans are the main cause. It's about being realistic.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Lol. Do not worry, it will for all us eventually. But cheer up and do not think so negative, learn the lesson from the great movie, " It's a Wonderful Life ".
    ??? Im not some depressed spaz,
    I think the end of the world will be great, all the vain and degenerate people of society will suffer first.

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    ??? Im not some depressed spaz,
    I think the end of the world will be great, all the vain and degenerate people of society will suffer first.
    When there is a global tragedy event, such as meteor strike, or even a localized one such as a hurricane, all suffer. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Another good movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BronzeCondor View Post
    Results are one thing, conclusions are another. "In Theory", we only can conclude what we can by what we've observed thus far. The way we've evolved our understanding of quantum physics is a perfect example of this. Using ice core samples and studying rock layers isn't an exact science but it gives us a good idea of how certain regional and global climates have changed over time. In truth, no rational scientist will admit that that the world has never heated (or cooled) at the current rate before because it's impossible to determine that given the information we have. Again, not saying humans aren't contributing to the current trend but we don't know well enough about the Earth's past to be able to make 100% certain conclusions that humans are the main cause. It's about being realistic.
    Excellent points and I agree.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    It is nether and once again, you resort to insults with someone you do not even know. Which can be a sign of immaturity. Not saying you are however.

    I am not saying humans have zero impact on global warming. The more serous impact they are having is not green house gases, but water, ground and air pollution. This is a far greater threat to the earth and all living species. Ice ages and such, are going to happen in spite of humans.
    Then what is your reason for not reading actual scientists on climate change? Because you have participated in multiple climate change threads over the years, and take the time to offer up links. What is your reason for having the time to talk about a subject while refusing to actually educate yourself on it?

    And 'I don't have time' is not a legitimate answer. Every second that you spend talking about a subject you don't know is time better spent learning that subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Then what is your reason for not reading actual scientists on climate change? Because you have participated in multiple climate change threads over the years, and take the time to offer up links. What is your reason for having the time to talk about a subject while refusing to actually educate yourself on it?
    Just because a majority of a group of people think something is correct, does not necessarily mean it is. I have read other scientist's reports which refute the studies which say mankind is the major reason for the recent warming period. I think BronzeCondor explained it as well, if not better than I could. I think the truth could very well be somewhere in the middle of the two stances. I am still open to more however, so it is not a closed cut case for myself.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Just because a majority of a group of people think something is correct, does not necessarily mean it is. I have read other scientist's reports which refute the studies which say mankind is the major reason for the recent warming period. I think BronzeCondor explained it as well, if not better than I could. I think the truth could very well be somewhere in the middle of the two stances. I am still open to more however, so it is not a closed cut case for myself.
    So from what I gather so far, you've looked at global warming advocates and skeptic scientists.

    Well if you're open to more, as you say, why not look at what all the rest of the scientists are saying? I'll note that none of what you wrote here actually answered the question of why you don't read them.

    Edit: Also, most skeptic papers are flawed:
    https://static-content.springer.com/...MOESM1_ESM.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

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