Kind of a rant on how Blizzard approached their Villains in recent history

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure of 2 things. They will fuck up Azshara and N'Zoth like they did with Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde. And that is VERY sad.
This is because by the looks of it the game will start with horde alliance conflict and then turn into soemthing more "sinister" with Azshara, wich is confirmed we will face. This means we will have another expansion where a HUGE lore figure pops out from nowhere with no real story being told, and then just die like a clown.

Given how things shaped up in Legion i'm pretty sure they will do the same error again.
If you want to give me Azshara, You palce that fking Naga on the box art and you say "this expansion is about Azshara motherfuckerssss!" and then the expansion goes around that with a rich story. That is what they should do, not this bs where you start with a war, just for things to turn in a compeltly different way to fight azshara (together i guess....) i hate this kind of stuff.
They did it ever sicne Cataclysm as well. No clear villains, just go on with whatever they throw at you with no clue what you're really fighting. Some may like it, but i HATE it. I don't think this approach has given us much positives to be honest. I'm still absolutely pissed on how they dispatched Kil'Jaeden in such a ridicolous way. We are talking of a guy who IS the LORE of this damn game alone, and the best they could do is relegate him to a mid expansion raid, where he pop ups from NOWEHRE, with no story told whatsoever. Jus put him there and go die. Kil'Jaeden SHOULD have been the ONLY choice for the final boss of Legion. Yes Argus makes sense given how they went with the story, but he is a nobody compared to Kil'Jaeden, and has the charisma of a dishwasher machine.

Overall, this is all to say that i really wish they would jsut go a step back, and focus more on the imporant vaillanous figures in wow lore (wich are quickly running out btw, at least the most notorious ones), and they would stop with this "you will fight something somwhere at some point" just to see important characters die as quicklly as they came.

Of course, i could be wrong (i really hope!) and BfA (wich overall i'm hyped about) will treat Azshara and company like the big badass baddy that she is.

[Sigxy]

I honestly wish they could just start make villains who are a lot more 'relatable' and not over-powered world-threats. Kinda tired of those. ;_: I mean just look at Edwin VanCleef, a lot of people consider him one of their favorites - and he was JUST a normal human who was a skilled fighter, but he was also the leader of the Defias Brotherhood and the reason they were against Stormwind, was a good one! Now I don't SUPPORT their cause, but it's very relatable!

[zlygork]

I honestly wish they could just start make villains who are a lot more 'relatable' and not over-powered world-threats. Kinda tired of those. ;_: I mean just look at Edwin VanCleef, a lot of people consider him one of their favorites - and he was JUST a normal human who was a skilled fighter, but he was also the leader of the Defias Brotherhood and the reason they were against Stormwind, was a good one! Now I don't SUPPORT their cause, but it's very relatable!

Don't see the need for it to be male, but other than that I couldn't agree more. Aa exciting as an "epic themed" expansion can be every now and then, the smaller scale threats tend to hit closer to home than these walking nuke one dimensional villains

[Sigxy]

Don't see the need for it to be male, but other than that I couldn't agree more. Aa exciting as an "epic themed" expansion can be every now and then, the smaller scale threats tend to hit closer to home than these walking nuke one dimensional villains

...I never said it had to be male...? I just brought up an example that happened to be Edwin.

[Makorus]

Nobody thinks Edwin was a good villain, lmao.

People just like him because he's like the first endboss most people fight in Vanilla. He has as much personality as a random wolf in Elwynn.

[zlygork]

...I never said it had to be male...? I just brought up an example that happened to be Edwin.

That's so incredibly odd, I would have sworn I read something along the lines of "male villain that is relatable" which seemed kind of weird

That's what I get for going into internet forums before my coffee, apologies.

Edit: ah there we go, my brain probably read "male" in the "make" word >_>

[Priestiality]

Except there is story and background. That's why there's at least one novel between every expansion, to explain getting from point A to point B. I mean, I don't read them either but to say they don't exist is just ignorant.

[therealstegblob]

The problem is that Blizzard classically lacks very bad storytelling structure in WoW. A lot of characters get used as basically set pieces for one expansion, or even just one patch or whatever, and don't really get any running narratives. Bad guys especially just tend to show the fuck up out of nowhere and pose some token threat before we kill them in a raid.

Part of the problem is that WoW can't contain a very large story by itself, at least not a very dynamic one with multiple overarcing plots. It gets people wet to dream about a WoW that could contain a story on the magnitude of a non-MMO game, or a novel book or something, but they simply don't understand what kind of ridiculous feat that is when it comes to writing. Because believe me, I know firsthand how difficult a writing project like that is.

So the unhappy medium we receive is one where villains pop up at nothing more than set pieces. Very few characters are given the focus to exist expansion-to-expansion without suffering from having their planned stories cut or content scrapped.

[Niwes]

no offends, but op seems a bit late to the party. the game long long ago changed from a mmoRPG with good lore and stories, into a fast paced streamlined action mmo with lowcost story to surround things. thats the reason they endlessly reuse old lore stuff. they just need that shit to embed the game into something.

look at all this endless lore elements in Legion or WoD. they used chars, stories and backgrounds in such a simplified and flat way, that it all just is „champion, we need your help. guy X is a very big threat. we must stop him.“ this term was used a THOUSAND times in EVERY order hall quest of EVERY class. its all completely flat dumb shit. but the NPCs that throw around that words, are all heavy lore driven chars from the past.

in short: that game became simple stuff with simple lore embedding the gameplay stuff. heroes and villains are used flat, dumb and stupid just to transport horrible simple red thread through the game. complete existing lore is just wasted for cheap shit, only for the fact to save money by designing, devloping and writing new lore.

[Makorus]

no offends, but op seems a bit late to the party. the game long long ago changed from a mmoRPG with good lore and stories, into a fast paced streamlined action mmo with lowcost story to surround things. thats the reason they endlessly reuse old lore stuff. they just need that shit to embed the game into something.

look at all this endless lore elements in Legion or WoD. they used chars, stories and backgrounds in such a simplified and flat way, that it all just is „champion, we need your help. guy X is a very big threat. we must stop him.“ this term was used a THOUSAND times in EVERY order hall quest of EVERY class. its all completely flat dumb shit. but the NPCs that throw around that words, are all heavy lore driven chars from the past.

in short: that game became simple stuff with simple lore embedding the gameplay stuff. heroes and villains are used flat, dumb and stupid just to transport horrible simple red thread through the game. complete existing lore is just wasted for cheap shit, only for the fact to save money by designing, devloping and writing new lore.

You act like Warcrafts story has ever been deeper than a puddle in summer.

[Mic_128]

this bs where you start with a war, just for things to turn in a compeltly different way to fight azshara (together i guess....) i hate this kind of stuff.
They did it ever sicne Cataclysm as well. No clear villains

Uh, really? Cause it was pretty obvious that Deathwing was going to be the final boss. You know, the guy who was in the opening cinematic. The guy who shattered Azeroth. The guy who made the goblin's mountain erupt, tore the rift in deepholm, was seen raising the god-damned firelord himself in Hyjal.

MoP and WoD did change it slightly, building up the villain through content, not looking like the big-bad from the start. But honesly, I like it. (Or at least in the case of MoP, WoD's was rushed, cutting the whole middle section)

[Sigxy]

That's so incredibly odd, I would have sworn I read something along the lines of "male villain that is relatable" which seemed kind of weird

That's what I get for going into internet forums before my coffee, apologies.

Edit: ah there we go, my brain probably read "male" in the "make" word >_>

Oooh, yeah. Must've been the lack of coffee - glad I don't drink that stuff o_o No worries though!

Except there is story and background. That's why there's at least one novel between every expansion, to explain getting from point A to point B. I mean, I don't read them either but to say they don't exist is just ignorant.

See, the problem is: I don't read those novels (the paid type), since I'm one of those who 'votes with the wallet' and do think that we should get important lore put into the game - the least they could do as we're paying a sub to play this game. So I honestly think they are bad IF they are the novels you have to pay for.

I'm fine with novels about the past and such... but if you need to read a novel about what's currently happening, just to understand a villain? That's bad storytelling and it should be in the game. I mentioned the Defias before: You didn't need to read any novels to understand their cause and why they did it.

[Grizzelbar]

die like a clown.

What does that even mean? Is there a special way for clowns to die?

[Hugnomo]

I sort of agree but not really. My favorite storytelling was in MoP, and part of it was there was no obvious villain at the start. It flowed very organically, there were many things going on that culminated at SoO. Garrosh wasn't underdeveloped that expansion even though he wasn't featured in the box art or presented as a villain from the beginning.
Yes, Kil'jaeden was a bit wasted, but I think that's more of a consequence of how fast they wanted to wrap up the burning legion storyline than anything else. Archimonde should have never been brought back in my opinion, as his end at Nordrassil was much more fitting and epic than what we got in wod.
I think they realize they were at their best in MoP (storywise) and are using it as a template for the current and future expansions.

[Deleted]

Uh, really? Cause it was pretty obvious that Deathwing was going to be the final boss. You know, the guy who was in the opening cinematic. The guy who shattered Azeroth. The guy who made the goblin's mountain erupt, tore the rift in deepholm, was seen raising the god-damned firelord himself in Hyjal.

MoP and WoD did change it slightly, building up the villain through content, not looking like the big-bad from the start. But honesly, I like it. (Or at least in the case of MoP, WoD's was rushed, cutting the whole middle section)

Yeah, i meant AFTER cata

- - - Updated - - -

What does that even mean? Is there a special way for clowns to die?

Yes, they die like Kil'Jaeden

[Mic_128]

Yeah, i meant AFTER cata

Then say 'after'. "Since" includes what you're talking about.

"We've been able to fly ever since Burning Crusade"
VS
"We've been able to fly ever since Vanilla Wow"

[Deleted]

Then say 'after'. "Since" includes what you're talking about.

"We've been able to fly ever since Burning Crusade"
VS
"We've been able to fly ever since Vanilla Wow"

ye thx for the reminder, not native english speaker

[Xerra]

Another danger is the running out of villains, unless they make more Garroshs where its a leader going rogue then the 'checklist' of baddies is getting smaller and smaller. Inventing the Void Lords at least stalled that because they can add a few villains via that but other than that its pretty limited.

We need like some imprisoned Loa or Wildgod that wanted to wipe out all sentient life being released. Once freed maybe draw in a certain number of druids to their cause and causing an azeroth threat by forcing the Emerald Dream to overcome the world. Or maybe a disgruntled gnome group upset that their capital is still in fallout or mistreatment and representation in cinematics forming some mechanized group maybe have them take over a titan machine to build their own army. Or bring back old names that were generals or something, something akin to maybe some Dreanor orcs after camps imprisoning them made by the dreanei coming to azeroth for help or to capture a new home.

The shortcomings is trying to make it last 3+ patches worth of content that could have relevance in 5-7 world zones. Hmm though we are taking out Azshara in this next expansion they could have made the whole expansion under water but make the entire zones like Neptulon's instance so you aren't swimming under water.

[Deleted]

Another danger is the running out of villains, unless they make more Garroshs where its a leader going rogue then the 'checklist' of baddies is getting smaller and smaller. Inventing the Void Lords at least stalled that because they can add a few villains via that but other than that its pretty limited.

We need like some imprisoned Loa or Wildgod that wanted to wipe out all sentient life being released. Once freed maybe draw in a certain number of druids to their cause and causing an azeroth threat by forcing the Emerald Dream to overcome the world. Or maybe a disgruntled gnome group upset that their capital is still in fallout or mistreatment and representation in cinematics forming some mechanized group maybe have them take over a titan machine to build their own army. Or bring back old names that were generals or something, something akin to maybe some Dreanor orcs after camps imprisoning them made by the dreanei coming to azeroth for help or to capture a new home.

The shortcomings is trying to make it last 3+ patches worth of content that could have relevance in 5-7 world zones. Hmm though we are taking out Azshara in this next expansion they could have made the whole expansion under water but make the entire zones like Neptulon's instance so you aren't swimming under water.

They didn't even try to introduce some new demon names to eventually bring them back, they are simply too shortsighted. So next time the legion returns, they either introduce someone we already fought or they introduce someone new that dies 2 patches later. Let stand them being able to come up with a story that introduces many new villains that they build up over multiple expansions.

Even Azshara doesn't feel developed enough for us to kill her, and she's 15000 years old and has been in the games for 15+ years. Would have been nice to see her go through that whole realization of her being vain enough to think she would rule with Sargeras or any of her other failures, or how she dealt with turning in some sea monster after being conscidered the most beautiful being on Azeroth... But all we get after 15 years is a one-liner villain that wants power.

[McNeil]

They haven't done any good villain since Arthas. I think Lei Shen had potential but they should've done far more with him in-game, and not just tell everything he did in the past only to wake up and get beaten by 25 LFR scrubs. Its sad to look back at Deathwing and Kil'jaeden who both had great potential to be top tier villains, only to end up as random raid bosses in raids that most people don't even like. Deathwing should be fought in both his human and proper dragon form and not just his toe nails, and Kil'jaeden should've been the final boss of Legion where he acts a lot more cunning and intelligent during his fight.

Not expecting a whole lot with future villains but I'm open to be surprised.