Do adults still can't take animation seriously unless they are comedic?

[Deleted]

Well ok, I didnt realise anime was so different to animation, you win the argument. Have you seen them though? Im curious

He explicitly said western animation

[Selastan]

Well ok, I didnt realise anime was so different to animation, you win the argument. Have you seen them though? Im curious

Ninja Scroll, no. Vampire Hunter D, yes.

And Japan has been doing adult animation for a very long time, but they seem to be the only ones to do so. It seems like western animators never do anything more adult than something like Avatar: The Last Airbender. Really, the only time I've seen ANY adult western animation was the last season of Samurai Jack, which was when I first noticed it, and I'm sure OP has as well, thus the thread. It's either a kids cartoon or adult sitcom over here, and we are curious as to why there's nothing similar to Vampire Hunter D or Berserk coming out of our animation studios.

[Lochton]

What do you think of the vampire hunter D movies?



pure art

To you, sir, I salute for including Vampire Hunter D.

As to the topic at hand. I have yet to meet an adult (older than me) who had problems with animated shows (of any art style).

[eschatological]

I don't really take animation seriously in terms of dramatic acting. I just have never seen an animated sequence that can express real emotion through strictly animation, versus what would be a live action sequence of the same thing.

Things like UP! are emotional because of the music, the framing, the direction. It's not because of the emotive expressions of the old man character. Provided you can get the same thing (music, framing, direction), live action should be better than animation if you have good actors.


Animation excels in areas like action and slapstick comedy, where you can stretch the limits of what human beings can physically do, and in fantasy/science-fiction where actors aren't practical depictions of the characters in the story.

[elaina]

PG13? lol. make it R and I'll be (mildly) impressed.

Depends on the person how serious they take animation. There is certainly a large international market for it though.

[RobertoCarlos]

To you, sir, I salute for including Vampire Hunter D.

As to the topic at hand. I have yet to meet an adult (older than me) who had problems with animated shows (of any art style).

Shout out to the Vampire hunter D crowd!

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I don't really take animation seriously in terms of dramatic acting. I just have never seen an animated sequence that can express real emotion through strictly animation, versus what would be a live action sequence of the same thing.

Things like UP! are emotional because of the music, the framing, the direction. It's not because of the emotive expressions of the old man character. Provided you can get the same thing (music, framing, direction), live action should be better than animation if you have good actors.


Animation excels in areas like action and slapstick comedy, where you can stretch the limits of what human beings can physically do, and in fantasy/science-fiction where actors aren't practical depictions of the characters in the story.

Gotten more emotion out of Wall-E's eyes alone than any Rom Com

[eschatological]

Romantic Comedies aren't dramas.

[RobertoCarlos]

Romantic Comedies aren't dramas.

Ok fair enough. I would be more moved by Wall-E's performance than say Jennifer Lawrence in Mother! Or Amy Adams(fantastic actress too) in Arrival

[Scottyjscizzle]

Gen Y adults take animation seriously. But they don't watch as much TV as their predecessors. So what you want can happen and already is happening but not from Cartoon Network and the Disney Channel but on Netflix.

Also people often vastly underestimate the preparation time and cost high quality animation. But I think that when it comes to fiction, especially fantasy fiction with a lot of effects and massive rosters of people, it may prove cheaper in the future as the tools we have to support animation become better. Game of Thrones can be successful with all that CGI precisely because compared to other epic fantasy novels, it doesn't have nearly as much CGI as you'd need for e.g. The Wheel of Time or the Malazan Books of the Fallen; it's fairly low magic.

Shit my mom is Gen x and has watched multiple eastern and western animated series with me. She loved over the garden wall and has watched both the clone wars and rebels weekly with me when they are on. The biggest barrier is getting them to sit down and watch while starting with something in their wheelhouse.

[Arrowstormen]

I don't really take animation seriously in terms of dramatic acting. I just have never seen an animated sequence that can express real emotion through strictly animation, versus what would be a live action sequence of the same thing.

Things like UP! are emotional because of the music, the framing, the direction. It's not because of the emotive expressions of the old man character. Provided you can get the same thing (music, framing, direction), live action should be better than animation if you have good actors.


Animation excels in areas like action and slapstick comedy, where you can stretch the limits of what human beings can physically do, and in fantasy/science-fiction where actors aren't practical depictions of the characters in the story.

Totally disagree. Animation has made me cry far more than live-action.

I mean, the go-to example of Sad Moment in Movie is Bambi's mom.

[VincentWolf]

Define "adults". I'm almost 38, I've been watching and still am watching a lot of cartoons. I'm not into anime, but I watched Star Wars: Clone Wars/Rebels, Adventure Time (say what you want, this is NOT a kids' show), RWBY and many others over recent few years. And yes, I can take them pretty seriously, if the show/episode is serious. In same RWBY for example, death of couple of my favorite characters had hit me pretty hard. To some extent, of course.

[eschatological]

Totally disagree. Animation has made me cry far more than live-action.

I mean, the go-to example of Sad Moment in Movie is Bambi's mom.

I'm not saying cartoons can't be sad.

I think you're not getting what I'm saying. Bambi is sad because of the story, the direction, and the voice. It's not sad because of Bambi's animated face. All those things being equal, live action can have more facially/bodily expressive moments. But because deer don't talk in real life and aren't actors - Bambi is good as animation.

And I disagree with RC - WALL-E didn't affect me emotionally, whereas Dead Poet's Society always will. But that's a matter of taste to think WALL-E evokes more emotion than certain actors in certain roles.

[Ehrenpanzer]

It has been said this song sounds like a Disney song which gave me an idea.


How would you feel if Disney or Cartoon Network went what the Hell and tried to make an direct to video PG-13 level epic fantasy cartoon filled with tragedy, heroism, romance, and politics with the goal of making Western animation's equivalent of LOTR or Game of Thrones?

Would that be a bad idea? Would a more lighthearted Final Fantasy like story be better suited for this setting and medium?


Are adults ready for something like this? Or should adult animation be reserved for comedy?

Would a sci fi space setting be a better setting?

We had that. It was called Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.... and it was a pile of shit.....

[RobertoCarlos]

I'm not saying cartoons can't be sad.

I think you're not getting what I'm saying. Bambi is sad because of the story, the direction, and the voice. It's not sad because of Bambi's animated face. All those things being equal, live action can have more facially/bodily expressive moments. But because deer don't talk in real life and aren't actors - Bambi is good as animation.

And I disagree with RC - WALL-E didn't affect me emotionally, whereas Dead Poet's Society always will. But that's a matter of taste to think WALL-E evokes more emotion than certain actors in certain roles.

Arnt you kind of contradicting yourself with this line and "where you can stretch the limits of what human beings can physically do" from your previous post. Animation can heighten the phyiscal abilities and exaggerate emotive responses in a way you never could with live action.

The only edge live action has is that with brilliant acting you can feel their emotion

[eschatological]

Arnt you kind of contradicting yourself with this line and "where you can stretch the limits of what human beings can physically do" from your previous post. Animation can heighten the phyiscal abilities and exaggerate emotive responses in a way you never could with live action.

The only edge live action has is that with brilliant acting you can feel their emotion

Animation can exaggerate physical action. But I haven't ever seen an animation that has been animated in such a way to out-emotion a human being. Maybe WALL-E is more emotionally animated than a bad actor. But a good actor will defeat an animated version, even an animated version of him/herself, every time.

Keep in mind, you're talking about one of the best animated emotional moments in animation history - versus all of film. I don't know that I can name more than a handful of animations where the emotion comes from the actual animation itself. I can come up with hundreds of just as emotional, if not more emotional (to me) moments in live action.

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Edit: HEre's an example: Take any emotional movie. I expressed my like for Dead Poet's Society earlier. Now animate it, best you can. Is it more emotional, the same, or less? I'd say less, every single time, because animation makes it un-real. It adds another layer of disconnect between the viewer and the emotion. Robin Williams animated isn't going to beat Robin Williams live.

[RobertoCarlos]

Animation can exaggerate physical action. But I haven't ever seen an animation that has been animated in such a way to out-emotion a human being. Maybe WALL-E is more emotionally animated than a bad actor. But a good actor will defeat an animated version, even an animated version of him/herself, every time.

Keep in mind, you're talking about one of the best animated emotional moments in animation history - versus all of film. I don't know that I can name more than a handful of animations where the emotion comes from the actual animation itself. I can come up with hundreds of just as emotional, if not more emotional (to me) moments in live action.

I'm not saying its done easily, just like brilliant acting isnt easy. Pixar are clearly head and shoulders above most animators.

Its incredibly difficult making content that connects with people with inanimate objects like 2d/3d characters in hi fidelity color but it is achievable.

I always think the writing is the real star for emotion. And then heightened by the performance. Without a script that connects the dot it all falls apart and becomes a pretty music video

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Edit: HEre's an example: Take any emotional movie. I expressed my like for Dead Poet's Society earlier. Now animate it, best you can. Is it more emotional, the same, or less? I'd say less, every single time, because animation makes it un-real. It adds another layer of disconnect between the viewer and the emotion. Robin Williams animated isn't going to beat Robin Williams live.

I get your point but one of Robin Williams most loved performance is Genie in Aladdin too.

[eschatological]

Well yeah, it all starts with the writing. And in the case of WALL-E, which literally has no dialogue - with the direction.

[RobertoCarlos]

Well yeah, it all starts with the writing. And in the case of WALL-E, which literally has no dialogue - with the direction.

Dead Poets Society was your pick for best dramatic moment btw? You like standing on desks, Oh captain my captain. Carpe Diem etc? Found that film to be a bit preachy/artsy.

I dunno what mine would be tough one....I think the performance that still kinda freaks me out today was Ellen Burstyn in Requiem for a Dream. I felt her journey into addiction and insanity in that film. Or any scene of James Stewart in its a wonderful life

[Mormolyce]

Surely anyone under the age of 60 is aware that there is such a thing as adult animation.

To be honest, even if you're 60 you should remember things like Fritz the Cat. I don't think this stereotype was ever accurate.

[eschatological]

I think the best moment in DPS is when the kid is struggling with who he is and ends up killing himself.