Where will M+ take us in the future?

[Battlebeard]

I hope it's removed or at least changed extremely much.

Blizzard once said it was an alternative to raiding, but sadly, doing M+ has become kind of required to perform well in raids. If you do your weekly +15 etc, you benefit a lot from that in raids. I hope for the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.
- M+ specific gear. All gear that drop in M+ can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate m+ to do them to do better in raids.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least raiders will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the weekly reward chest! Same reason as above.

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

[Fight4Fun]

M+ Raids?

10ch

[Deleted]

people like me who hate m+

Like ... yeah ...

I want the same too. I want to do high keys.

Come on, people who like the keystones are clearly blind fanboys, sorry but that's the truth.

The system is a complete no-brainer. Imagine if every raid had a keystone, and to raid Antorus you first had to upgrade an EN Key to a Nighthold Key and then to a Tomb Key etc EVERY TIME you wanted to raid Antorus.

They kept keystones cause some dungeons they made were so bad, that in order for them to not be completely abandoned and to hurt the feelings of that dungeon designer, they kept keystones so people would actually play them.

Sorry for sounding cynical, but I hate keystones more than I hate the legendary or AP system. It's indescribeably stupid. I don't play the abomination of M+ thanks to this. The idea was good but they keystones is so extremely stupid.

[HuxNeva]

M+ is clearly the runaway success of Legion.
It kept 5 mans attractive content to a broad player base for the whole expansion.
Contrast this to WoD where dungeons were purely leveling content, or the extreme niche activity of 'challenge modes'.
The success was a fortunate combo of 5 mans being an attractive gameplay mode to start with, the affixes trowing in variety, the scaling offering challenge and the TF offering potential reward. Remove any of these and the roof comes crashing down.
It is likely that the success of M+ will influence future class balance.
It is likely that the success of M+ will influence future dungeon design.

[Deleted]

If Mythic+ hangs around we'll get more pretentious parse lord cultured teenagers that think M+ is even close to the same level as top end raiding. Hopefully it disappears.

Funny that I consider m+ to be more of an adult thing, as the older we get the higher chance we have families, kids and jobs and quite less time to waste on 4-5h wiping to a single boss per evening because some monkey set his spell details too low or just cba. The great people I meet through good m+ pugs turn out to actually be more mentally stable than the average mythic raiders I met in my previous guilds.
Just recently the party leader kicked a dude from his +16 run and I was in awe. It was BEFORE we even got to the dungeon, we were discussing approach (food, invis, pulls) and that dude started some hate over this ("You talk too much"?!?!). The party leader took no chances and just replaced that dude immediately. I already knew whatever will come in the dungeon we'll be fine. Turned out to be yet another addition to my personal friend list after that run and the next ones we did together as well.
Props to such people for sharing a genuine interest in hate- and drama-free gaming.

[HuxNeva]

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

"I just wan to play this part of the game and screw all other people that have fun".

Your comments are as asinine as those yelling for removing raids as 'I don't wont to farm boring raids just to get my required 4-set for M+. Let gear from raids be cosmetic only'. The latter would even have more of a point as tier pieces are required to do well in M+, whereas M+ gear for raiding is purely optional.

What is next? You're going to complain about having to kill a certain boss before getting to the next because you don't like a particular fight, and demand that Blizzard remove it from the game?

[Deleted]

Exactly the same system in BfA is my guess.

It's popular and a good PvE endgame alternative.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

If Mythic+ hangs around we'll get more pretentious parse lord cultured teenagers that think M+ is even close to the same level as top end raiding. Hopefully it disappears.

Clearly salty about something, but what? Disappointed with your own M+ performance? I mean, otherwise why would you care who thinks what? And yeah, there are pretentious people, parse lords, and teenagers participating in both M+ and top end raiding. Doesn't make either better than the other. On the contrary, I imagine most top end players enjoy both.

[HuxNeva]

Btw, it would be extremely foolish of Blizzard not to support M+ fan sites and start making all M+ runs available via API. The excuse that they were taken by surprise of the success and need time to adapt is wearing thin.

[Einsz]

I hope it's removed or at least changed extremely much.

Blizzard once said it was an alternative to raiding, but sadly, doing M+ has become kind of required to perform well in raids. If you do your weekly +15 etc, you benefit a lot from that in raids. I hope for the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.
- M+ specific gear. All gear that drop in M+ can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate m+ to do them to do better in raids.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least raiders will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the weekly reward chest! Same reason as above.

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

Skill wasnt deciding in CMs. Even with scaling technology it was mainly about abusing the technology to get that perfect scaled gear set. Not to mention if you had Soul Kappa trinket your run from barely making it in time went to doing CM in less than 5 minutes.

Gear > skill

Also doing 1 15 a week for weekly is 15 minutes of play, before you had to spend like 1 hour to farm valor cap to upgrade your raiding gear or do something similar so I don't know why are you complaining. Perhaps +15 is too hard for you?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I hope it's removed or at least changed extremely much.

Blizzard once said it was an alternative to raiding, but sadly, doing M+ has become kind of required to perform well in raids. If you do your weekly +15 etc, you benefit a lot from that in raids. I hope for the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.
- M+ specific gear. All gear that drop in M+ can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate m+ to do them to do better in raids.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least raiders will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the weekly reward chest! Same reason as above.

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

Ok then, can we have scaled gear, raid-specific gear, and no AP no legendaries in raids also? So M+ enthusiasts don't feel a need to raid? Really, give me one reason M+ should be treated differently than raids in any of those respects. People aren't forced to M+ anymore than they are forced to raid or forced to do 'swoops of Argus'. All are ways to progress your character. If you are going to start saying dungeon gear can only be used in dungeons, it follows that raid gear can only be used in raids and world gear can only be used in world content. I seriously doubt that is what most players want.

[Charge me Doctor]

i wish they'll add an option to go to a m+ dungeon without a key with some sort of penalty, like 1 less loot drop.
And eventually they'll spread m+ to all dungeons available in the game

[demonyaa]

This is not true anymore, at least for wowprogress. I ran a +13 seat on the last day of the easy week, not even close to top 100 realm (I did check afterwards, 100th was a +15 barely above timer) and it was tracked correctly

Thats because you did it with someone from a lower population realm and it was tracked through the top 100 leaderboard of that realm.

[henkish]

I hope it's removed or at least changed extremely much.

Blizzard once said it was an alternative to raiding, but sadly, doing M+ has become kind of required to perform well in raids. If you do your weekly +15 etc, you benefit a lot from that in raids. I hope for the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.
- M+ specific gear. All gear that drop in M+ can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate m+ to do them to do better in raids.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least raiders will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the weekly reward chest! Same reason as above.

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

Let's flip it around then shall we. I raid only for the specific purpose of improving my ability to be successful in mythic plus. Therefore, they should change raiding. I propose the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like timewalking.
- raid specific gear. All gear that drop in raids can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate raiding to do them to do better in m+.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least m+ players will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the ability to coin stuff! No reason, I just hate fun and want to remove stuff for no reason.

[Charge me Doctor]

I hope it's removed or at least changed extremely much.

Blizzard once said it was an alternative to raiding, but sadly, doing M+ has become kind of required to perform well in raids. If you do your weekly +15 etc, you benefit a lot from that in raids. I hope for the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.
- M+ specific gear. All gear that drop in M+ can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate m+ to do them to do better in raids.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least raiders will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the weekly reward chest! Same reason as above.

In summary, let M+ be Exclusively for people who like it. I HATE M+ but I respect that others like it. I just don't want to do it as a raider. I want to ONLY raid and feel 0 need or incentive to do M+ to perform better in the raids.

it's not required, it's an alternative way to get gear. You can spend just 1 hour per week to do m+14, m+15 to get your precious piece of loot but that doesn't change much if you are raiding. HM raids is what you are thinking about, not m+, you get gear from HC raids, those who farm m+ for gear are...just wasting their time unless they are below 945

you remind me of people who wanted 10 man raids removed because "our 25 man raiding guild forces me to do 10 man raids!"

[HuxNeva]

i wish they'll add an option to go to a m+ dungeon without a key with some sort of penalty, like 1 less loot drop.
And eventually they'll spread m+ to all dungeons available in the game

I would suspect that would lead to just 2 or 3 dungeons being popular, with all the rest being neglected. The key system is fine as it is.

[Charge me Doctor]

The third affixes, as they stand, are quite boring and do virtually nothing to change how you run the dungeon.

They actually do everything to change how you run the dungeon...

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I would suspect that would lead to just 2 or 3 dungeons being popular, with all the rest being neglected. The key system is fine as it is.

well if you want extra reward you go to your keyed dungeon, but if you really want to go to deadmines m+ you have an option to do so. Now you can't do that and if they'll expand amount of dungeons it will be a big problem

[Halwyn]

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like CM.

Sadly, it was harldy the case for CM. Optimization of your gear (via stats, or back in MoP, amount of gems in it), avaliablity of certain classes to chesse and clever pulls were the main points of success, 'skill', by itself came 3rd. Some extreme examples in MoP: you could 3-man Gold CMs with Disc/Elemental/BrM. I'm personally baffled on how much shit I could face-tank as Prot Warr and laugh in their faces, while the same amount on DK or a Paladin was only survivialbe via kiting. Also, 'scaled' gear would seriously gut the number of classes you can bring, since some are by design become exponantially stronger with gear.

M+ is fine as it is - to compliment raiding, not as a replacement, a place to get your missing off-pieces and relics and maybe fish a sick titanforge. Why change something that works just fine?

[osmo]

while m+ atleast gives you more to do and some "challenging" content

i dont really like it alot, nor do i find it really challenging

with gear scalling with content comming out it never felt challenging just faster or slower
while at higher lvl's / affixes some mechanics come in to play but it only effects the rare pugged m+ not the ones i do with guildies or friends
wich is basicly the issue here... while it's arguably great content , high keys are still kinda out of reach for pug groups

and sadly eventho its an mmo , the mayority of players are still single players not groups

the only enjoyment i get from them is doing them with some friends and having some fun on discord, but to me IMO it's the same instance as when legion came out wich makes them boring in my eyes

i would find it awesome if they indeed as someone mentions would pit groups against each other the human element is always a suprise and live competition (not some boring ranking board) seems like fun to mee too.

and tbh im kinda positive this wil happen sort of seeing BfA is already dipping his toes in that

[Battlebeard]

"I just wan to play this part of the game and screw all other people that have fun".

Your comments are as asinine as those yelling for removing raids as 'I don't wont to farm boring raids just to get my required 4-set for M+. Let gear from raids be cosmetic only'. The latter would even have more of a point as tier pieces are required to do well in M+, whereas M+ gear for raiding is purely optional.

What is next? You're going to complain about having to kill a certain boss before getting to the next because you don't like a particular fight, and demand that Blizzard remove it from the game?

No, but Raids and M+ should be separate. 4-sets etc should not work in M+, as you can't get them from M+. And vice versa. Today, you clearly benefit from doing M+ as a raider, and doing raids as a M+ player. It should be separated! Raiders should never benfit from M+ and M+ players should never benefit from Raids.

Just like PvP players should never benefit from PvE and PvE players should not benefit from PvP.

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Skill wasnt deciding in CMs. Even with scaling technology it was mainly about abusing the technology to get that perfect scaled gear set. Not to mention if you had Soul Kappa trinket your run from barely making it in time went to doing CM in less than 5 minutes.

Gear > skill

Also doing 1 15 a week for weekly is 15 minutes of play, before you had to spend like 1 hour to farm valor cap to upgrade your raiding gear or do something similar so I don't know why are you complaining. Perhaps +15 is too hard for you?

No, I can manage 15 just fine. But people are insanely elitist. I have "only" 950ilvl and I struggle like hell finding a +15 even though it's more than enough to do it, especially cause I have much experience. And I don't like the dungeons, I find dungeons very, very boring.

I work 70 hours a week and have busy weekends, I want to put 99% of my time in the game on the raids. I just hope for a game where this is possible!

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Ok then, can we have scaled gear, raid-specific gear, and no AP no legendaries in raids also? So M+ enthusiasts don't feel a need to raid? Really, give me one reason M+ should be treated differently than raids in any of those respects. People aren't forced to M+ anymore than they are forced to raid or forced to do 'swoops of Argus'. All are ways to progress your character. If you are going to start saying dungeon gear can only be used in dungeons, it follows that raid gear can only be used in raids and world gear can only be used in world content. I seriously doubt that is what most players want.

Well, most people would agree to keep PvP and PvE separate, won't they? I remember legendary cloak quest in MoP and people enraged cause they had to win ONE of Kotmugo and Silvershard Mines. PvPers don't like PvE and PvE'ers don't like PvP. Of course some people like both, but lots and lots of people have their thing, one of the two.

So if you can separate PvP and PvE, why not separate things even further? Split PvE even further, M+ and Raids, two sides, 0 incentive for Raiders to do M+ and M+ to do raids. That way, you can focus on what you WANT to play not everything cause you HAVE to do it to optimize your character.

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Let's flip it around then shall we. I raid only for the specific purpose of improving my ability to be successful in mythic plus. Therefore, they should change raiding. I propose the following changes:

- Scaled gear! Let only skill decide how far you go, like timewalking.
- raid specific gear. All gear that drop in raids can only be used there. This will truly separate raiding and M+, and not force people like me who hate raiding to do them to do better in m+.
- No AP gains, No legendaries and no other things than gear drops. That way, at least m+ players will feel less of a need to do them, even if we want the gear.
- Remove the ability to coin stuff! No reason, I just hate fun and want to remove stuff for no reason.

I have ALWAYS wished for a "Raiding-Moba" so to speak, you chose what class you want to play, 0 gear, 0 levels, just all abilities avaliable and ready to raid. I like WoW but I don't like the mmo parts that much. I hate leveling, gearing etc, but i LOVE raiding. I want to do raids, that's it, so the things you suggest are GOOD things to me. I would LOVE scaled raids.

AP and Legendaries is an awful system, I'm happy to see them removed from raids too.

Coining stuff is also stupid, it adds more RNG and RNG is always a bad thing.

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it's not required, it's an alternative way to get gear. You can spend just 1 hour per week to do m+14, m+15 to get your precious piece of loot but that doesn't change much if you are raiding. HM raids is what you are thinking about, not m+, you get gear from HC raids, those who farm m+ for gear are...just wasting their time unless they are below 945

you remind me of people who wanted 10 man raids removed because "our 25 man raiding guild forces me to do 10 man raids!"

I honestly can't remember the exact ilvl you get from doing a +15 weekly, but it's like 960? Either way, you get gear from M+ a lot easier than you do from raids. Doing a +15 is much, much easier and less effort than killing Mythic Antorus bosses. However, I want to raid for the fun of it.

And since I'm only raiding HC atm, it DOES become a requirement for me to do atm, even though i skip it. I can't optimize my gear without M+. :/

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Sadly, it was harldy the case for CM. Optimization of your gear (via stats, or back in MoP, amount of gems in it), avaliablity of certain classes to chesse and clever pulls were the main points of success, 'skill', by itself came 3rd. Some extreme examples in MoP: you could 3-man Gold CMs with Disc/Elemental/BrM. I'm personally baffled on how much shit I could face-tank as Prot Warr and laugh in their faces, while the same amount on DK or a Paladin was only survivialbe via kiting. Also, 'scaled' gear would seriously gut the number of classes you can bring, since some are by design become exponantially stronger with gear.

M+ is fine as it is - to compliment raiding, not as a replacement, a place to get your missing off-pieces and relics and maybe fish a sick titanforge. Why change something that works just fine?

Well, the problem is the "compliment" part. That's what I am against. I don't want to do anything else than raids but if I don't do M+, I will not gear as fast. I just want a game where I can do raids and never even be able to improve my gear elsewhere. And for those who like M+, they should be able to do M+ without possibly improving their gear from raids.

And for CM, any gear, ANY gear could do CM gold if the player was good. You only needed to optimize your gear for server bests or for boosting others.