Void for the Horde

[Combatbutler]

Well, WoW is currently the most important source for lore and everything else revolves around it. Their demise is not even sure as long as they continue to exist because a new solution is always possible. The same thing goes for the forsaken.

The problem with the game is you don't exactly know what is canon and what is not, you know the overall arching story, but you don't know who achieved them all. All of this is usually set into perspective from an outside source, like a book, a tweet or chronicles. The game is one big giant mess full of possibilities.

[Wildmoon]

The problem with the game is you don't exactly know what is canon and what is not, you know the overall arching story, but you don't know who achieved them all. All of this is usually set into perspective from an outside source, like a book, a tweet or chronicles. The game is one big giant mess full of possibilities.

What I mean by WoW is actually everything about it including novels and short stories.

[Morgomir]

My only problem with the idea of proximity relation is that if Life is closely tied to Light then so is Fel, haha! I wanted to argue with your statement that all schools derive from Void and Light, but if the canon lore is that everything does then it's pretty inarguable that magical schools do as well.



I don't know, they've always seemed opposing to me. Mages vs Warlocks. Titans being Arcane, the Dark Titan being Fel. It seems like it would make more sense to swap Arcane and Fel's place on the chart though.

Assuming Arcane=Order and Fel=Chaos White would be the color of chaos as white is the chaotic presence of all the colors of light whereas black would be the color of order as it is absence of chaotic light and its colors.
I would highly recommend a book titled The Magic of Recluce. It fundamentally changed how I view magic. All magic that harms is adding chaos to a living thing's ordered system causing cell death and other ill effects whereas healing magic reorders any disorderly systems in an organism.
This is also why many universes have white mages as damage dealers and black mages as healers.

[Combatbutler]

What I mean by WoW is actually everything about it including novels and short stories.

And in that context it is possible for most of the void elves to fall to depravity and be antagonists, blizz already did it with the illidari and later turned it around. they can never go full annihilation but pretty close to it.

[Wildmoon]

And in that context it is possible for most of the void elves to fall to depravity and be antagonists, blizz already did it with the illidari and later turned it around. they can never go full annihilation but pretty close to it.

I don't really think it's likely. Lore outside of the game pretty much keep in touch with the game these days. The sort of disconnect that void elves are extinct in a book and very present in game likely won't happen. They can be few and they already are.

[Skytotem]

With Alleria showing up and snagging our Void Elves it seems the Alliance has a little bit of a monopoly on the Lightforged extreme of the Light as well as the path to the Void. I imagine something will need to balance this out in the long run for story sake, if not gameplay sake should their be a Void class introduced.

I had always imagined Vol'jin would, but with him gone who would lead the Horde's studies of the Void? Nathanos? Sylvanas? Thalryssa? Lilian Voss? Princess Talanji? Ji Firepaw? Thrall?

Edit: Come to think of it, might Ebyssian/Spiritwalker Ebonhorn be an option given the events of the new quest to recruit Highmountain Tauren?

Honestly, since they're tying Old Gods to the Void... and Nerubians are at odds with the Faceless ones... I vote Nerubians work with the Horde and we get some kinda functionally-bipedal Nerubian variant as an allied race.

[yetgdhfgh]

The Orcs are too weary of dark magic and the Belfs wont allow void anywhere near there sunwell.

The Forsaken love the Void and maybe new forsaken races liked Void rangers could be a thing but i guess that would be a class not a race.

[Golden Yak]

I wish we still had the Heart of Y'shaarj.

Man, Garrosh was giving the Horde all the cool shit.

[Erwarth]

Give us Thalysra and the Nightborne and we can start negociating Void Elves.

[Zulkhan]

Will we? Is there something about this in the BfA alpha gameplay?

There was in MoP. It was said Zandalari used an unprecedented school of magic that merged Shadow with the Arcane. As Combat said, the Kirin Tor and its High Elf good boys found it abhorrent where the Blood Elf's Sunreavers wanted to learn how that shit worked.

[Aeula]

Yes it was neutral in MoP. The Sunreavers actions and Jaina's response were not sanctioned by the Kirin Tor. It will continue to be neutral just like the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring, and the idiot Lightsucker brigade in EPL.

Her response was sanctioned. The entire council of six bowed to her, they continued to support her decision to break Neutrality until Khadgar and his neutrals returned from Draenor. Modera herself joined Jaina on the Isle of Thunder, along with many other mages.

They’re in the Alliance’s back pocket. If Jaina came back in Khadgar’s absence and asked they’d rejoin the Alliance in a heartbeat.

[MrSaggins]

It is already ingame since mop, the Zandalari use some very advanced shadow magic, the kirin tor find it abhorrent, while the sunreavers wanted to figure out how it works.

I suppose we'll have to see if the Zandalari following Zul made Rastakhan's followers privy to their magics.

Does their need to be one? Seems to me there is zero evidence that we are going to get a "void" class of any kind at any time so on.

Additionally, nothing with the void elves or Lightforged imply they are BETTER at manipulating said relevant energies. This is really not something I worry about.

I would imagine at the very least they are more educated on the matter, as the essences are a part of their very being with which they have first hand experience. And yes, I do believe there needs to be an introduction to the void for Horde players as things progress. At the very least through a neutral character like Locus Walker.

It is both the same source actually, shadow magic just doesn't go as deep into the void.

Does it? Are you making the leap that its adjacency to Void on the cosmic chart counts for something; or coming from somewhere else?

Stop being stupid. It's a world tree that housed the bulk of the race you ignoramus, it's not simply a 'tree'. It can't be replanted. But wherever an open sewer exists, Undead will always have a home.

Ignorant am I? It was my understanding that Lordaeron is a centuries/millennia-old city; whereas Teldrassil was planted more recently than Arthas took up Frostmourne. Ergo, trees can be replanted. Would you care to correct my understanding?

Dalaran is neutral, has been neutral throughout WoW and will continue to be neutral, stop acting like it won't be.

Horde has two powerful arcane users, necromantic undead assholes, and a bunch of ooga booga shamans. You don't need the void.

Interesting choice of words. Though I suspect the Horde-hostile, Alliance-exclusive-faction: The Kirin Tor Offensive under Ms. Proudmoore's leadership, during the Isle of Thunder campaign, following the purge of Sunreavers from Dalaran, firmly put Dalaran in the Alliance's political camp. Thus, it has not been "neutral throughout WoW," and may yet change positions again.

Yes it was neutral in MoP. The Sunreavers actions and Jaina's response were not sanctioned by the Kirin Tor. It will continue to be neutral just like the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring, and the idiot Lightsucker brigade in EPL.

Indeed? I seem to recall Archmage Modera and Lan'dalock taking the side that aided the Alliance's quest for power. Not to mention Jaina, or that the current Kirin Tor comprises of her romantic partner and five other humans.

I do, it's called roll a bloody void elf and play alliance. Just like night elf fans got shafted for the nightborne joining the Horde. There is nothing keeping you from the story. Roll a void elf, learn about the void crap there. You don't need a Horde analog.

I'm referring to the Horde in the story, rather than the players themselves. One imagines Azhara and the coming Void Lords will require some filler quest text to explain strategies to combat them; Umbric and Alleria's understanding will be wonderful for Alliance. The point of my thread is merely to inquire who would best lead this research for the Horde.

Nothing short of fully grown titans can withstand the void so far, Alleria herself knows that she will fall to the void eventually.

I do find that ironic that Alleria is the one responsible for teaching us that neither the Light nor the Void alone hold all of the answers in their prophecies, yet she's so certain of this outcome.

Honestly, since they're tying Old Gods to the Void... and Nerubians are at odds with the Faceless ones... I vote Nerubians work with the Horde and we get some kinda functionally-bipedal Nerubian variant as an allied race.

That's certainly an option.

The Orcs are too weary of dark magic...

Hey now, Ner'zhul would take issue with this!

I wish we still had the Heart of Y'shaarj.

Man, Garrosh was giving the Horde all the cool shit.

What a wonderful point. Whomever leads the Horde's studies could take players deep below Orgrimmar to see what remains.

There was in MoP. It was said Zandalari used an unprecedented school of magic that merged Shadow with the Arcane. As Combat said, the Kirin Tor and its High Elf good boys found it abhorrent where the Blood Elf's Sunreavers wanted to learn how that shit worked.

Thank you. I will look into this further.

[valky94]

give the horde void ethereals (locus-walker and his squad) so that ally players can make a milion rage forum threads

[faithbane]

She would have already have been hunted by the allaince that’s not gonna make her hate of the forsaken go away. If any thing she could join up with the argent dawn and not have to work with the forsaken or worry about the allaince.

what is this head cannon you cling so strongly about lilian voss "hating" the forsaken? She refused to join the forsaken that is true, but there is a big difference between hating forsaken and not joining them. She actually hates the scarlet crusade cause of her father/past and scourge necromancers, summons who bind undead to their will. You see her through out wow in different expansions, hunting scarlet crusade, then 1 necromancers after another.. alll the way into WoD she was still hunting them. At no point she was hunting forsaken.

[Directionalk9]

If you go to AU dreanor in Shadowmoon Valley there’s a sizable Shadowmoon Clan town, can’t remember the name, they look badass and are clearly using shadow magic. With Sylvanas in charge it’s not illogical to assume she might see their mastery over that power source and find away to bring them into the Horde. It would be better for them to join as they won’t be fucking with the Sunwell.

[Blamblam41]

I do think the Horde needs some void themes because light vs shadow is gonna be a big deal in the future. More so than life/arcane/fel themes.

Blizzard has been muddying the waters between death magic and void magic.I feel like they could be pushing Sylvanas in this direction, she certainly fits thematically, both in terms of what shadow magic is meant to represent emotionally and in terms of aesthetics. The Forsaken also (used to) have the Cult of Forgotten Shadow, maybe Blizz could bring that back?

There are also Shadowhunters, but they are honestly closer to Shaman than anything void related.

Another option would be Cursed Arakkoa or Ethereals as a new race, though I would prefer they bring out the themes on established characters rather than look for an external solution.

Considering you need void magic to even begin to comprehend death magic, I'd say that Sylvanas has been in that direction since her inception as Warchief.

But yes, the Horde already has a 'light' race in the form of Blood Elves (they are basically holy elves post sunwell) and a 'void race' in terms of the Forsaken since void is a primary component of death. Another more blatantly void-powered race could do the Horde some good, but pushing the Forsaken this direction would fit the niche rather well.

Frankly I'm okay with the Hordes holy race and the Alliances void race being the same group of frilly Elves with different skin colors. It really goes to show that Blizzard has to make it over the top goofy with the races that are opposite the factions theme.

[yetgdhfgh]

Hey now, Ner'zhul would take issue with this!

Thats the point!

The new orcs are too weary of dark magic

[Maljinwo]

Considering you need void magic to even begin to comprehend death magic,

Death and Shadow are 2 different schools of magic. That's like saying that you need to study Druidism to become a Paladin

[Faerillis]

Do they? 5/6 members of the Kirin'tor leadership are human, and the sixth is married to one.

Dalaran's pool of citizenship has been rather notoriously small and as a result the only people known to have ever qualified to be on the Council of Six have thus far been Human, Blood/High Elf OR a Dragon posing as one of those two races. We know nothing about how the Council is even selected as Blizzard isn't really great about actually putting political mechanism into their lore but I think this can be very strongly attributed to them having been a Human Kingdom preceding them being rebuilt after the Third War. I mean, what have we ever seen Ansirem do before besides get farmed Pre-Cata? Karlain is unremarkable and Vargoth was included simply because he is a known Kirin Tor Mage in the game.

And that's a damn shame. Imagine if Karlain had been replaced by a powerful Gnome Mage, with an actual serious story that Blizzard could have developed and made into something worthwhile, giving them some of the attention they very much deserve.

Also, it's minor but important and irksome so: Jaina and Kalec are fucking NOT MARRIED. Blizz seriously needs to piss off on making every relationship in WoW end up in a damned marriage. She's a Human Noble, he's a goddamn Dragon marriage has no prestige for her and no cultural basis whatsoever for him so don't give Blizz ideas he said looking at Thrall/Aggra and Tyrande/Malfurion in particular

[Deleted]

Brother, let me offer my suggestions:

1. Light - Lightforged Nathrezim
2. Void - Pale Orcs