[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[tyrlaan]

I thought it was great. I also think all of you whining about the movie being as diverse as real life come off as racist and complaining about a woman doing something cool is sexist.

I'd "+1" your post if the forums had that functionality

[caervek]

Tarkin may be in charge of the military operation of the Death Star itself but he is not Vader's boss.

Except that he was lol, it was made clear in Episode 4 that Tarkin outranked Vader and Vader was/would following/follow his orders, Leia even mentioned it when she first encountered Tarkin. At the end of the day being the bodyguard/apprentice/etc of the Emperor allows you a lot of freedom in the Galactic empire just like it did in the Roman empire, Vader can get away with pretty much whatever he likes but he doesn't have the balls to disrespect Tarkin on his own battle station.

[Elim Garak]

Except that he was lol, it was made clear in Episode 4 that Tarkin outranked Vader and Vader was/would following/follow his orders, Leia even mentioned it when she first encountered Tarkin. At the end of the day being the bodyguard/apprentice/etc of the Emperor allows you a lot of freedom in the Galactic empire just like it did in the Roman empire, Vader can get away with pretty much whatever he likes but he doesn't have the balls to disrespect Tarkin on his own battle station.

Wrong. Vader was above Tarkin, despite the appearances, he was the Emperor's "right hand". Krennic was visiting Vader about Tarkin taking over asking him to prevent it.
Vader was fine with Tarkin giving him "orders", because of the following:
1. Anakin knew Tarkin since Clone Wars and they were actually friends.
2. Tarkin was in command of the Death Star, so Vader didn't impose without a reason and Tarkin never gave him any reason.
3. Tarkin's orders weren't stupid.

[caervek]

1. Anakin knew Tarkin since Clone Wars and they were actually friends.

The conversation was specifically about their relationship in Episode 4, not any following retcon. In fact the main point was how the Vader/Tarkin dynamic/relationship had been altered by following films/etc.

[Elim Garak]

The conversation was specifically about their relationship in Episode 4, not any following retcon. In fact the main point was how the Vader/Tarkin dynamic/relationship had been altered by following films/etc.

That's just silly. If you only look at E4: Vader is not Luke's father. Leia is not Luke's sister. Yoda doesn't exist.

Not to mention that most of the stuff was written way before it got into the movies. Vader was Emperor's right hand in E4 and Tarkin wasn't a boss of him.

[caervek]

Fun fact: Luke never receives any lightsaber combat training on screen in the original trilogy. Ben gives him a primer on blast deflection with a remote and Yoda only teaches him the spiritual and telekinetic aspects of the Force (which he struggles with and fails to master before leaving). For all we know he's completely untrained in it when he goes to face Vader in ESB, and in Jedi Yoda tells him his training is somehow now complete (despite the fact he didn't want him to face Vader in ESB and rather complete his training), so there's nothing further before the final battle in the throne room.

Couple of obvious points:

1: Using the force to help you deflect blaster shots (and later doing it for real to great success) is quite similar to using it to help you parry laser sword slashes, in fact in a standard duel between Jedi with no "high ground" type shenanigans it would most likely be an endurance battle to see who can predict/counter their opponents moves for the longest time.
2: Luke got facerolled by Vader in ESB, and Vader wasn't originally trying to hurt him just get him into the carbonite freeze.
3: Luke only managed to overmatch Vader in the throne room once he embraced the dark side and utilized his anger/hate to defeat Vader (something often overlooked).

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That's just silly. If you only look at E4: Vader is not Luke's father. Leia is not Luke's sister. Yoda doesn't exist.

No, that stuff is still there you just don't know it yet, whereas Vader having no boss but the emperor was a change to the canon made after Ep4 (this is what was being discussed). That's why it stands out as odd when you rewatch Ep4 and Vader is subservient to Tarkin (kind of weird Lucas didn't change this during his remastering edits).

[Elim Garak]

No, that stuff is still there you just don't know it yet, whereas Vader having no boss but the emperor was a change to the canon made after Ep4 (this is what was being discussed). That's why it stands out as odd when you rewatch Ep4 and Vader is subservient to Tarkin (kind of weird Lucas didn't change this during his remastering edits).

I rewatched E4 many times, I never thought he was subservient. Cooperating as he should've been. Tarkin was the commander of the station it would've been stupid of Vader to undermine his authority. He did not ask permission to force choke that admiral who was subordinate to Tarkin, but backed down when Tarkin told him to, there was no punishment for Vader's out of line initiative.

[Nefarious Tea]

You shouldn't have to read additional material for a movie to be consistent or make sense.

That's bad storytelling.

Fun fact: people bitched me out for saying the same thing about WoW.

Anyway, I agree and it's stupid; her weirdness got a lot of people killed. Illo dicto, however... how would you even portray that in a film? Without it being super cringey?

[PACOX]

Except that he was lol, it was made clear in Episode 4 that Tarkin outranked Vader and Vader was/would following/follow his orders, Leia even mentioned it when she first encountered Tarkin. At the end of the day being the bodyguard/apprentice/etc of the Emperor allows you a lot of freedom in the Galactic empire just like it did in the Roman empire, Vader can get away with pretty much whatever he likes but he doesn't have the balls to disrespect Tarkin on his own battle station.

Vader being under Tarkin only applies to ANH if ANH existed in a vacuum. Everything outside of ANH either places Vader as the "Vice Emperor" who exist outside of the political and military ranks of the Empire. At the time of ANH, the Sith were still playing they charade of giving a damn about political discourse. Vader really didnt give a damn about the Death Star, he cared about killing Jedi and anyone who he felt like deserved a choking. The only reason he was on the DS was to hunt down the plans. Anakin respected military order, and so did Vader, he wasnt about to shit in Tarkin's house without reason.

[eschatological]

In ANH, Vader thought all the Jedi were dead. He was only on the Death Star because its plans were compromised and he was searching for them. He could have just kept his prisoner Leia on his star destroyer, but the plot required him to bring her back to the Death Star.

[Jastall]

And Snoke dressed in a pimp robe. I have no issue with that, considering they are the respectively the leaders of their organisations.

The Resistance was evacuating their base when the story started, there's no reason for her to be wearing a formal dress, especially when you look at how literally everyone else is dressed. Even Leia was not as extravagant.

The leader of the Galactic Empire wearing a bathrobe in his throne room is fine, but the Admiral of an hilariously rag-tag army wearing civilian clothes is not? Seems like arbitrary skepticism to me.

[Elim Garak]

In ANH, Vader thought all the Jedi were dead. He was only on the Death Star because its plans were compromised and he was searching for them. He could have just kept his prisoner Leia on his star destroyer, but the plot required him to bring her back to the Death Star.

Actually it made sense to keep her on the Death Star and for Vader to be on the Death Star.
They knew the plans were with the droids on Tatooine - a planet Vader hated because SAND.
They knew it was practically impossible to retrieve the plans, so instead they decided to retrieve the location of the rebel base to kill both rabbits with one shot because the plans were destined to end up at the rebel base. So they interrogated Leia for the base location to get there for the Death Star Drive-by.

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The leader of the Galactic Empire wearing a bathrobe in his throne room is fine, but the Admiral of an hilariously rag-tag army wearing civilian clothes is not? Seems like arbitrary skepticism to me.

Emperor had appropriate clothes for the Emperor. The Vice Admiral weren't wearing just some civilian clothes - she was dressed fancy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I meant havent. But it looked my mistake helped to illustrate the point.

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Why do people keep taking Kylo for a chump. Kylo is Vader's heir. He freezes blaster bolts. He can comb through a person's thoughts and dreams on some Matrix type stuff. He has his own space biker bang. He nearly killed Luke as a kid. He has been doing his thing for quite some time.

Snoke should've respected what Kylo is capable of.

I really like kylo but your points about him are rather flawed. Freezing blaster bolts is flashy but other sith have stopped bolts at there hands with no problem they don’t need to be flashy because people know and fear him and there sure of there power.

Him going though some ones mind also isn’t impressive Vader did the same thing to Luke when they were fighting while kylo does it to people who are not force sensitive.

Him almost killing Luke is also flawed as they didn’t have a real fight by any stretch and Luke never meant to fight him he just had an impulse which he then pushed down leaving a gap for kylo to bring down the house.

[Jastall]

Emperor had appropriate clothes for the Emperor. The Vice Admiral weren't wearing just some civilian clothes - she was dressed fancy.

Appropriate? We have leaders of bite-sized countries today that don't appear in public unless in they're in an impeccable suit. The guy leads an entire friggin galaxy and looks like my grandpa added a hood to his old sack-looking bathrobe and dyed it black in one of his moments of senility.

I mean, sure, I'd have been able to take the lady more seriously had she been in a uniform (and Lord knows she was a shitty enough character that she needed all the help she could get on that front) but this series is clearly not too crazy about dress codes in general.

[Elim Garak]

Appropriate? We have leaders of bite-sized countries today that don't appear in public unless in they're in an impeccable suit. The guy leads an entire friggin galaxy and looks like my grandpa added a hood to his old sack-looking bathrobe and dyed it black in one of his moments of senility.

What are you even talking about? He wore a robe. it's quite appropriate in SW universe for the Evil Emperor to wear a robe.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Leaving the rest of your nonsense, Luke got saved by Obi in ep4, got rekt in ep5, then lived due to Vader saving him in ep6. In every single movie Luke would have died if someone else didn't save/spare him. Meanwhile Rey beats the main villain 5 minutes after first seeing a lightsaber. Comparing the two is asanine.

Rey beats kylo after he has been shot suffer huge emoninal trama and then faught Finn getting even more injury’s and is then powerless before snoke and only saved by ren. It’s a fair comparison though rey is defiantly more component in some ways then Luke was.

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They underestimate him because he got owned by an untrained kid and nearly killed... Had he actually won that fight, even in his injured condition, as he should have, not only would he have been seen better, Rey would be called a mary sue much less, seeing as how she would actually suffer defeat and isn't always triumphant.
But can't have a woman losing, it's Disney after all and they are all about the Princesses...

Rey lost to snoke hands down so your women never losing theory doesn’t hold true.

[PACOX]

I really like kylo but your points about him are rather flawed. Freezing blaster bolts is flashy but other sith have stopped bolts at there hands with no problem they don’t need to be flashy because people know and fear him and there sure of there power.

Him going though some ones mind also isn’t impressive Vader did the same thing to Luke when they were fighting while kylo does it to people who are not force sensitive.

Him almost killing Luke is also flawed as they didn’t have a real fight by any stretch and Luke never meant to fight him he just had an impulse which he then pushed down leaving a gap for kylo to bring down the house.

What other Sith were freezing blaster bolts? Im talking canon. Vader...Sidious...Dooku wasnt freezing bolts...not was Maul. Those are the only canon Sith whose actual abilities we know. Also never said Kylo was particularly stronger than any of them. As Im typing Im sitting here thinking about it...its much easier to swat a projectile than to defy physics (even SW physics) and freeze it in place.

Also to say Vader didnt something doesnt diminish a feat. Vader could do A LOT of stuff. Point is that Snoke acted Kylo was a loaded gun waiting to go off.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I counter with Rey having more combat experience with a staff than the zero seconds she had with the saber vs Ren getting training from both Luke and Snoke and successfully overpowering Luke.

Injury only makes up for so much and he nearly killed Finn, who has similar saber experience to Rey.

Kylo never over powered luke he dropped a house on him.

And kylo wasn’t only injuries by the bow caster he was also unstable from killing his father and then got further injuries fighting Finn.

[Martymark]

Has anyone mentioned how incredibly sexist it is that almost every time a woman gets behind the wheel of a vehicle in TLJ she crashes it immediately? Home one, Rose's speeder, Rose's nameless sister...etc.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What other Sith were freezing blaster bolts? Im talking canon. Vader...Sidious...Dooku wasnt freezing bolts...not was Maul. Those are the only canon Sith whose actual abilities we know. Also never said Kylo was particularly stronger than any of them. As Im typing Im sitting here thinking about it...its much easier to swat a projectile than to defy physics (even SW physics) and freeze it in place.

Also to say Vader didnt something doesnt diminish a feat. Vader could do A LOT of stuff. Point is that Snoke acted Kylo was a loaded gun waiting to go off.

Both Vader and the emperor have stopped bolts it not being mid air doesn’t really account for much as stoping it mid air is more flashy then practical. Not to mention that when Vader did it they more then likely didn’t have the effects to do what kylo did so it’s not really a fair comparison.

I would say kylo is a loaded gun I just don’t think your points are very impressive as similar things have been done by other sith if not as flashy.