[SPECULATION] Queen Azshara of Zin'Azshara, the first ever mutated Zandalari Troll?

[Wildmoon]

Yeah, what was he a gorilla? Some broken speech and grunts and was the smartest of nest making dinosaurs. No opposable thumb or tools? So, like I said, I don't count animals as the same as humanoids building empires lol

Well, they were capable of sophisticated thought not unlike humanoid races. Malygos was self-aware of his own intelligence and proud of it which is not something animals are capable of in general. Some Animal-like races in WarCraft are not really like animals in real life. They are more or less similar to humans in intelligence. You have to add "humanoid" into your definition.

[killwithpwr]

Yeah, what was he a gorilla? Some broken speech and grunts and was the smartest of nest making dinosaurs. No opposable thumb or tools? So, like I said, I don't count animals as the same as humanoids building empires lol

Have you read 'Dawn of the Aspects'?

[The Anax]

Have you read 'Dawn of the Aspects'?

No, I am not a fan of Richard's writing as it is, "it was all he could do" gets over used. And, I do not care much for the dragons. Why, do the protodrakes stop building nests and laying eggs in the mountains and forge a civilization, erecting temples made of tree bark and wearing pants? lol Or do they just fly around trying to kill an even bigger protodrake so that the other things I do not care for- the Titans- can warp and twist them into prettier pets? Never appealed to me.

[vertigo12]

So basically about 3 creatures? 1 Primordial/Elemental, 1 Organic/Draconic and 1 Organic/Sentient/Humanoid.

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Yeah, what was he a gorilla? Some broken speech and grunts and was the smartest of nest making dinosaurs. No opposable thumb or tools? So, like I said, I don't count animals as the same as humanoids building empires lol

And wait till Blizz retcon that the saurocs and everything reptilian creatures did evolve from the proto-Drakes.

I'm looking forward to an Ancient Azeroth expansion where we face Galakrond in a time-altering/traveling filler expac right after BfA and relive the heights of Black Empire.

[Nathanyel]

Yes, several sources state that NE somehow came from trolls but a live in-game NPC claiming such as testament, none yet has taken the blame.

That's because Elves are too proud to even consider the possibility of being related to Trolls.

Just because certain humans believe in Creation doesn't mean we didn't evolve from monkeys.

[vertigo12]

That's because Elves are too proud to even consider the possibility of being related to Trolls.

Just because certain humans believe in Creation doesn't mean we didn't evolve from monkeys.

Finally! I was waiting for someone to bring this up and thank you for doing so. This is a related moral issue or perhaps egotistical pov that has connection with my OP. If somebody should win the blame game and in the game of tag who would be "it" I believe it would be nobody else but Queen Azshara. By bringing your point in the open it would be clearer that there is a possibility Azshara can be a culprit behind the ties of Dark Troll turning to first ever Kal'dorei..


Actually I came up with another hypothesis that has connection with this and this time Sageras,Illidan and Legion Expansion is concerned as well as the the final cinematics of Antorus and connection of it with BfA.

[Marcellus1986]

Finally! I was waiting for someone to bring this up and thank you for doing so. This is a related moral issue or perhaps egotistical pov that has connection with my OP. If somebody shoul win the blame game and in the game of tag who would be "it" I believe it would be nobody else but Queen Azshara. By bringing your point in the open it would be clearer that there is a possibility Azshara can be a culprit behind the ties of Dark Troll turning to first ever Kal'dorei..


Actually I came up with another hypothesis that has connection with this and this time Sageras,Illidan and Legion Expansion is concerned as well as the the final cinematics of Antorus and connection of it with BfA.

What are you talking about? Dark trolls evolved into elves well before Azshara was even born.

[vertigo12]

What are you talking about? Dark trolls evolved into elves well before Azshara was even born.

We don't have to argue about the point you are currently brining to the table but the point of discussion with my previous reply above your response was this: NE-then-Dark Troll suspect:It was I, a living testament and proof that I was previously a dark troll *show's some distinct physical mark or show's a relic or such.
Yes, as we are informed out of game universe but in-game nobody came up to either claim the walk of fame and/or shame. As to what is the reason behind we still need to investigate their motives. We can somehow compare it to Jewish Christians secretly hiding their identity as such and hid under the vestige of being Catholic because if they openly declare such they'll either Jewish skewers or Jewish kebab/bbq as a means of survival. If the Dark Trolls are under such oppression from the rest of Zandalar empire similar to the example I've just mention, we don't know why did they hid the call or whisper of "Elune" and their quest for supremacy and power.

[Marcellus1986]

We don't have to argue about the point you are currently brining to the table but the point of discussion with my previous reply above your response was this: NE-then-Dark Troll suspect:It was I, a living testament and proof that I was previously a dark troll *show's some distinct physical mark or show's a relic or such.
Yes, as we are informed out of game universe but in-game nobody came up to either claim the walk of fame and/or shame. As to what is the reason behind we still need to investigate their motives. We can somehow compare it to Jewish Christians secretly hiding their identity as such and hid under the vestige of being Catholic because if they openly declare such they'll either Jewish skewers or Jewish kebab/bbq as a means of survival. If the Dark Trolls are under such oppression from the rest of Zandalar empire similar to the example I've just mention, we don't know why did they hid the call or whisper of "Elune" and their quest for supremacy and power.

There is nothing to argue about because you’re wrong and the canon lore says you are. I’m not going to respond to the rest of that run-on paragraph.

[vertigo12]

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There is nothing to argue about because you’re wrong and the canon lore says you are. I’m not going to respond to the rest of that run-on paragraph.

Then which specifically did your said lore states and refutes the idea and speculation I was presenting?Show me a precise line and/or paragraph which would in all shape or size and aspect disprove my speculation otherwise, I will ask you to slit your throat after you have cut your tongue out.

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Show me the precise line and source which would directly contradict my speculation in all shape and size as well as in all angle. Otherwise, if you won't be able to disprove me with a concrete evidence I'll ask you to go slit your throat after you have cut your tongue out.


Infracted.

[Marcellus1986]

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Then which specifically did your said lore states and refutes the idea and speculation I was presenting?Show me a precise line and/or paragraph which would in all shape or size and aspect disprove my speculation otherwise, I will ask you to slit your throat after you have cut your tongue out.

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Show me the precise line and source which would directly contradict my speculation in all shape and size as well as in all angle. Otherwise, if you won't be able to disprove me with a concrete evidence I'll ask you to go slit your throat after you have cut your tongue out.

The Warcraft Chronicle clearly points out that night elf civilization flourished from 15,000-10,000 years before the Dark Portal, from their evolution into night elves from dark trolls till the Sundering. It even implies there were leaders before Azshara but that she was the most gifted and powerful. She, like all other night elves, evolved FROM dark trolls but she was NOT a dark troll. I explained this to you several pages back and you are still trying to imply she is a dark troll. She isn’t. Read the Chronicle and find enlightenment or wallow in ignorance, whatever you desire.

Also telling me to slit my throat is pretty hilarious considering all I’ve done is call you out on your conspiracy nonsense.

[MrDragon]

The Warcraft Chronicle clearly points out that night elf civilization flourished from 15,000-10,000 years before the Dark Portal, from their evolution into night elves from dark trolls till the Sundering. It even implies there were leaders before Azshara but that she was the most gifted and powerful. She, like all other night elves, evolved FROM dark trolls but she was NOT a dark troll. I explained this to you several pages back and you are still trying to imply she is a dark troll. She isn’t. Read the Chronicle and find enlightenment or wallow in ignorance, whatever you desire.

Also telling me to slit my throat is pretty hilarious considering all I’ve done is call you out on your conspiracy nonsense.

Multiple times he has been pointed to sources, he disregards it because it doesn't fit his theory. I'd just stop.

[Marcellus1986]

Multiple times he has been pointed to sources, he disregards it because it doesn't fit his theory. I'd just stop.

I know. I’ve just been reporting his posts, especially where he was telling me to slit my throat.

[MrDragon]

I know. I’ve just been reporting his posts, especially where he was telling me to slit my throat.

Funny, me too.

[vertigo12]

What are you talking about? Dark trolls evolved into elves well before Azshara was even born.

Source? Give me #Years ago, a child later be named Azshara was born. With golden eyes she is destined to be a reknowned Empress which forever change the history of Kal'dorei empire.

I know. I’ve just been reporting his posts, especially where he was telling me to slit my throat.

Honestly are you that desperate enough to do such a thing as if you have suicidal tendencies?I know for a fact you are on you're right frame of mind and you wouldn't even entertain such thought. You wouldn't even dare to cut out your own tongue first and even have the guts to do so, what more slitting your own throat? I'd translate what I mean for you in layman's term and as simple as possible: Die.Liar. Die in the sense that just stop, and I call you as liar in the sense that I find your evidence ambiguous and it's not enough to hold the water. Now at least you do get my message now and the gravity and seriousness how I tackle my discussion. And to clarify, no I'm not morbid and sadistic as you might thing that did run in your mind.Yes, before I even wrote what I said, I know you would definitely think that way.

Let me dissect your reference material as to understanding it seems you understood it too rigid. The reason for speculative analysis or investigative procedure is to remove ambiguity and obscurity. It's basically the same thing as to Illidan the Evil guy back in BC vs. Illidan the misundertood now in Legion.

It even implies there were leaders before Azshara but that she was the most gifted and powerful. She, like all other night elves, evolved FROM dark trolls but she was NOT a dark troll.

You are using an out of context point of reference. Using before the dark portal point of reference would be erroneous as to the evens we are discussing was so many years prior to it. Using the reference during/before the Black Empire would somehow give us minor margin of error.


Now that you have supplied the material and reference, let's scrutinize it in an investigative and speculative analysis. It states that there were leaders before her. It doesn't directly state that those leaders are already Night Elven in statute already. Take note there are no annals or in depth chronicle which elaborately discuss the transition from Dark Troll to Nigh Elvendom. Wasn't stated with exact value how long it took or how rapid or instantaneous the transformation was so this would be open for speculation. The recorded data or value was during the 10k year civilization of Night Elves but no recorded preserved history was ever presented. There could be one but for sure it must be waterlogged already in the sunken city of Naz'jatar along with the Highborne mutated into Naga. If ever there would be a witness it must be one of the Nagas or confession that will be revealed by Queen Azshara herself.

There was never any mention that she is indeed a Dark Troll but it is a given that Night Elves used to be Dark Trolls. You haven't entertained the thought that just like Tyrande, Malfurion, and Illidan they were already alive before/during/after The Great Sundering and War of the Ancient. You cannot deny the fact that there is likelyhood that Azshara was alive before/during/after the transformation of Dark Trolls to Night Elves as there are no reference made how she ascended to her reign aside from the only one reason that she has golden eyes. If she has golden eyes, Illidan too have golden eyes before he was born. There was no reference as to the age gap or difference between the Stormrage brothers and Whisperwind compared to Queen Azshara. It's would be definite that Azshara was already alive at an uncertain age when those two were born.


Now that I have vent out these concern allow me to present my other hypothesis that I have mentioned above which as to the connection of Sargeras, Illidan, Azshara, The Legion and Antorus ending cinematics, and the wound to Silithus.


We have to start with the discovery of Azeroth by the Pantheon and Sargeras. It's a given they all have an idea that Azeroth was somehow corrupted by the old gods that's why they were finding a way to save her. Aman'thul tried by going with a direct approach reaching down to Azeroth and ripping one of the old Gods. It's very critical and fatal operations though. Take note that Troll civilization is one of the oldest sentient humanoid races of Azeroth. We can speculate that they might be living amongst the the proto drakes and the elementals as well as the black empires. This is just a guestimation though. I believe that the Pantheon or Sargeras aret observing and at watch, for sure they are.This is apparent as to the existence of Algalon the Observer and the Reset Matrix. That's why the Pantheon also created the Titan Constructs.

Sargeras I believe like Illidan was misunderstood. The Burning Legion was his way to save Azeroth by not directly slashing her in half or intervening like how Aman'thul did. He has to resolve in creating Mardum, find the Eredar, convert them to his cause, allow the Burning Legion to chase down the Draenei as they try to escape and find refuge in Draenor, contacted the native Orcs and convert them to their cause, allow the Orcs to enter Azeroth via the portal, contacting Illidan and making his apprentice and first ever Demon Hunter to be the greatest conqueror of his demon Legion, contacted Azshara to open a portal and use the Well of Eternity as gateway, Converting Gul'dan and as instrument to fel infuse the orcs, use Ner'zhul and convert him to Lich King,let the Lich King reach Arthas and make him the new Lich King. Sargeras did all the possible way to influence Azeroth and not let the imprisoned old gods reign supreme and totally taking over Azeroth.In the end we know that Sargeras planned and chose Illidan for a very important role. The Demon Hunter that he created and bestowed vision which others are clueless of would be the same person to be the Lord of Outland and have power of Burning legion. He is the same jailor of the Dark Titan.

What ever the old god's plans are, those always get impeded and stopped by using Azeroth's own creation to purify the corruption or anyway that would make it worse. His final crusade was done as he impaled Gorshalach deep into Silithus were if he really wanted to destroy us, he just cleave it in half much like how Argus is, but no. He somehow foresee that by doing so Azeroth's corrupted blood would somehow be cleansed by heroes who weilded the artifact weapon and used them by focusing on the sword thereby allowing Azerite to flourish. Azerite is a new weapon and power, for now it is a power that the two faction are trying their best to get as much as they can at their own disposal but I believe it is a power or material that would be used against the greater battle heroes of Azeroth will face and that is the old gods themselves.

Someway or another, Sargeras helped and shaped Azeroth's history and future. He seems to be the demon who tries to destroy Azeroth but I believe his intentions are noble and definitely misunderstood. Don't you see that he tried to stop the plans of the old gods trying to gain complete control with the Night Elves. What if the Dark Trolls were being used as pawn and machination against the Troll civilization which are trying to keep the old gods forces at bay? He contacted Illidan to somehow have mastery of demons as to Alleria mastering the void for a better cause. Basically Azshara is on old god's side and that's because she accepted their bargain when Sargeras's plan failed. If Sargeras has no idea or he wasn't aware of what's happening in Azeroth, how come he was able to contact Azshara and of all the creatures why Azshara? Same thing with Illidan which both have golden eyes. And Dark trolls too have golden eyes much like how the fallen Darkspear leader Vol'jin have them as well.

[Marcellus1986]

You literally have no clue what you are talking about. I am telling you what Chronicle states (no it isn’t the same as a retcon) and you’re posting nonsense whenever it just pops into your mind.

[Nathanyel]

Finally! I was waiting for someone to bring this up and thank you for doing so. This is a related moral issue or perhaps egotistical pov that has connection with my OP.

Don't twist my words. Night Elves refuse to acknowledge their Troll ancestry out of pride and ignorance, not because the first NElves, foremost Azshara by your theory, "decided" to forget that they were born as Dark Trolls.

The Night Elves as a civilization forgot this because it had been countless generations (which means a lot for a long-living Elf) since the first Kaldorei came to be.

[vertigo12]

You literally have no clue what you are talking about. I am telling you what Chronicle states (no it isn’t the same as a retcon) and you’re posting nonsense whenever it just pops into your mind.

So where is your reference which clearly states and declares Azshara's age out in the open? None exist as of yet right because no written publication about her exist. Not even a novel entirely dedicated for her currently on sale. So it might not be a surprise author Christie will write something for/about her within the timeframe of BfA's development or when it hits live.

Oh, calling me entirely clueless of what I'm talking about comes to me as something absurd. Unlike most WoW fans who use Blizz's reference material as codex of unbreakable/irrefutable truth only to victimize you in the future as a big pile of laughing stock when you blindly believe everything you read and see. It would only come as a very hard slap in the face when blizzard presents you with future content that would tell you otherwise. Maybe it's what everybody needs to get them to their senses.

So basically Illidan was entirely right to stick with his cause and be adamant about it. He was gifted with sight no ordinary mortal can see and perceive. And to cut you off entirely, I'll answer you right now that I know for a fact I am not Illidan as you entertain the notion in your head that: fck it vertigo12, you are not Illidan.

Fyi irl investigative analysis and law are one of my fields of interest.

[Marcellus1986]

So where is your reference which clearly states and declares Azshara's age out in the open? None exist as of yet right because no written publication about her exist not even a novel entirely dedicated for her currently for sale. So it might not be a surprise Christie will write something for/about her within the timeframe of BfA's development and when it hits live.

Oh, calling me entirely clueless of what I'm talking about comes to me as something absurd. Unlike most WoW fans who use Blizz's reference material as codex of unbreakable/irrefutable truth only to victimize you in the future as a big pile of laughing stock when you blindly believe everything you read and see. It would only slap you hard in the face when blizzard presents you with future content that would tell you otherwise.

So basically Illidan was entirely right to stick with his cause and be adamant about it. He was gifted with sight no ordinary mortal can see and perceive. And to cut you of entirely, I'll answer you right now that I know for a fact I am not Illidan as you entertain the notion in your head that: fck it vertigo12, you are not Illidan.

Fyi irl investigative analysis and law are one of my fields of interest.

There’s nothing listed about any of the major night elf lore figures with regards to age afaik. We have Illidan and Malfurion clearly being born in a flashback in game. The Chronicle lists the rise of night elf civilization as occuring ~15,000 BDP. They were tutored by Cenarius and the other wild gods, and the highborne came later. Judging from this, she was probably born sometime between 15,000 and 10,000 years ago. She isn’t a dark troll, she isn’t a Zandalari. Once a species evolves into a new species it is not referred to by its former name. Night Elves were dark trolls at one time but once they evolved Nelves=/=Dark Trolls.

You can’t make up your own lore out of thin air when the actual universe’s lore contradicts everything you’re claiming. That is your issue. You have a problem seeing the reality of things: namely that your argument doesn’t hold water.

You aren’t a professional investigator and law has nothing to do with video games unless you are claiming someone’s lore and intellectual property as your own.

[huth]

You can’t make up your own lore out of thin air when the actual universe’s lore contradicts everything you’re claiming. That is your issue. You have a problem seeing the reality of things: namely that your argument doesn’t hold water.

You aren’t a professional investigator and law has nothing to do with video games unless you are claiming someone’s lore and intellectual property as your own.

Just look at the ridiculous linguistics arguments he made earlier in this thread. Arguing with him is pointless.