Slaveri is not a white on black crime. It's a rich on poor crime.

[Sykol]

The fact that white people continue to make so many different, and often mutually incompatible, excuses for slavery is as clear as sign as any that, yes, whites enslaving blacks in the Americas was in fact something uniquely awful that isn't matched by other historical examples of the practice. What's so wrong with just acknowledging that "you know, slavery was some fucked up shit, and while I wasn't there, I'm sorry for what my ancestors did to your ancestors"?

Why would you ever apologize for something someone else did, to a person that never experienced it?

[caervek]

Apropos of nothing much, in England slavery was outlawed not for ethical reasons, but because English air was viewed as being so special that only free people were allowed to breathe it

If that was true then why did we go out of our way to convince the Americas to ban slavery and literally pay some countries to do it?

[Macaquerie]

Why would you ever apologize for something someone else did, to a person that never experienced it?

Because basic human decency gets you farther than going around the internet proclaiming "dindu nuffin!"

[Deleted]

Why would you ever apologize for something someone else did, to a person that never experienced it?

Agreed.

None of us were even alive back in those days. Neither any of our living family members.

Just let this subject rest already, it's actually keeping people back because they cling to this victim role instead of looking beyond that.

[Sykol]

Because basic human decency gets you farther than going around the internet proclaiming "dindu nuffin!"

Apologizing for something you had no part in isn't human decency, it's pandering and sad.

[Macaquerie]

Apologizing for something you had no part in isn't human decency, it's pandering and sad.

People apologize for the behavior of others all the time, or have you never had friends or family members make complete assholes of themselves in front of company that you had to cover for? It's normal human behavior, making an exception for slavery of all things makes no sense at all.

[Sykol]

People apologize for the behavior of others all the time, or have you never had friends or family members make complete assholes of themselves in front of company that you had to cover for? It's normal human behavior, making an exception for slavery of all things makes no sense at all.

...No? Because they can apologize for themselves, and if they don't I don't care. I'm not responsible for the actions of anyone but myself, especially not for people that lived hundreds of years before me and weren't even related to me. I don't get where you think I should feel guilt for that. It's an amazing and impressive leap of logic.

[Deleted]

The fact that white people continue to make so many different, and often mutually incompatible, excuses for slavery is as clear as sign as any that, yes, whites enslaving blacks in the Americas was in fact something uniquely awful that isn't matched by other historical examples of the practice. What's so wrong with just acknowledging that "you know, slavery was some fucked up shit, and while I wasn't there, I'm sorry for what my ancestors did to your ancestors"?

It was unique in the sense they used a racist pretext to justify it, but being a slave under a racist master or someone who just thought of you as a piece of disposable property was probably not much different.
The fact that the racist attitude lived on after the emancipation of the slaves is the real national shame for America. As far as I know that didn't happen in other countries to the same extent. Freed slaves in Scandinavia for example enjoyed the same status as other freemen.

As far as apologies go, no, just no. That is just silly. I'm not going to apologize for crimes committed by some rich feudal lords and corporations hundreds of years ago who most likely don't even share my ancestry. The fact I am expected to shoulder the responsibility of what they did only on account on my skin color is.... racist.

[Deleted]

how was it "both" slavery is not a particular race vs another particular race thing. it isnt even a rich vs poor thing as a poor person can enslave a rich one.

ITS NEITHER

[Machismo]

Thanks for admitting we shouldn't give a shit about your thoughts and beliefs if you're not able or willing to police yourself.

I'm just trying to get you guys to admit that you support thought policing. I'd hate for you to be hypocritical in the future. Is logical consistency that hard for you guys?

- - - Updated - - -

If someone doesn’t have the right to enter a country, then not allowing them entry is not taking anything away from them.

It is taking away freedom. You seem to be mixing up freedoms and rights in your desire to police the thoughts of others.

[Kalis]

If that was true then why did we go out of our way to convince the Americas to ban slavery and literally pay some countries to do it?

Their air wasn’t as good.

It is taking away freedom. You seem to be mixing up freedoms and rights in your desire to police the thoughts of others.

There is no taking away of anything, they aren’t being given additional benefits.

[Machismo]

Their air wasn’t as good.



There is no taking away of anything, they aren’t being given additional benefits.

Their freedom of movement is being taken away.

If you want to say that they never had the freedom, it was never taken away... that means that people born into slavery have not had their freedoms taken away.

We go in circles, over and over again.

You are thought policing, the least you could do is finally admit to it.

[Maybach]

Why would you ever apologize for something someone else did, to a person that never experienced it?

Exactly this

All this crap about trying to get people to apologise in exactly this manner is sick making when the same people do and say nothing about slavery that is taking place today by people alive now involving people who are also alive now

The nonsense that somehow an apology for historical acts is somehow more important than what is happening to people today beggars belief

Some people really need to reorientate their moral compass and their braincells

[Kalis]

Their freedom of movement is being taken away.

If you want to say that they never had the freedom, it was never taken away... that means that people born into slavery have not had their freedoms taken away.

There isn’t any entitlement to freedom of movement though, so you can’t take it away.

Comparing slavery to not being allowed into Britain is inane.

We go in circles, over and over again.

You are thought policing, the least you could do is finally admit to it.

Would you let someone stay in your house if they said they wanted to burgle you? No, so why would we want to let people in to the country who want to remove rights from half the population?

[Macaquerie]

It was unique in the sense they used a racist pretext to justify it, but being a slave under a racist master or someone who just thought of you as a piece of disposable property was probably not much different.
The fact that the racist attitude lived on after the emancipation of the slaves is the real national shame for America. As far as I know that didn't happen in other countries to the same extent. Freed slaves in Scandinavia for example enjoyed the same status as other freemen.

As far as apologies go, no, just no. That is just silly. I'm not going to apologize for crimes committed by some rich feudal lords and corporations hundreds of years ago who most likely don't even share my ancestry. The fact I am expected to shoulder the responsibility of what they did only on account on my skin color is.... racist.

But see, those two things are very much related. Because the post-emancipation generation did not take the proper steps to reconcile and compensate the former slaves, that created all sorts of issues that linger to the present day. And no one is asking you to solve these problems overnight, but as they say, the first step is admitting that there is a problem.

[Machismo]

There isn’t any entitlement to freedom of movement though, so you can’t take it away.

Comparing slavery to not being allowed into Britain is inane.



Would you let someone stay in your house if they said they wanted to burgle you? No, so why would we want to let people in to the country who want to remove rights from half the population?

I'm merely pointing out the flaw in your logic. You sure as shit didn't actually refute it, merely tried to dismiss is.

You really can't admit that you support thought policing, can you?

[Deleted]

I'm just trying to get you guys to admit that you support thought policing. I'd hate for you to be hypocritical in the future. Is logical consistency that hard for you guys?

There's trying to step up your game but you're treading quicksand, bub. The logical consistency comes from admitting there's a plenty that people come up with that needs to be suppressed if we're to have a society instead of an anarchist hellhole like you suggest.

[Machismo]

There's trying to step up your game but you're treading quicksand, bub. The logical consistency comes from admitting there's a plenty that people come up with that needs to be suppressed if we're to have a society instead of an anarchist hellhole like you suggest.

Then why is it so damn hard for you to admit that you support thought policing?

I don't support anarchy. I think people should be judged based on their actions, not the actions of others. You want to legally judge them by the thoughts they may, or may not, have.

[Deleted]

Historical fact, black slavery in the American continent started due to Portuguese colonial pragmatism. The portuguese tried to used native slaves, but they either were weak or escaped when was possible. The solution was to buy African slaves from African slave owners. It didn't started as a race issue.

[cuafpr]

It was both.

How many slaves in the US were white Americans?

very few, but also there were some black slaver owners, if i recall the first slaver owner in America was a black man. point is world wide slavery is not a race thing. There is not race that hasn't enslaved and been enslaved at some point in history.