Nightborne reasons are ridiculous.

[Deleted]

The Nightborne then call the Alliance stagnant. STAGNANT?

A bold claim from people who just spent 10,000 years in a bubble.

She thinks the Nightborne are still cowards who'll take the easy path, and what do they do to prove her wrong? Nothing, they immediately side with someone who doesn't ask them to prove their loyalty, because it's easier.

They also opened their borders to demon invaders without a fight.

[Deleted]

The combination of the current Horde races is ridiculous to begin with. Tauren with Forsaken? Blood Elves with Trolls/Orcs? Pandaren at all?

[Magnagarde]

The worst part is that Thalyssra witnessed the same being done to Alleria in Silvermoon as Tyrande did to her; Tyrande scorned her in advance and Lor'themar/Rommath scorned Alleria in advance too, but Thalyssra seemingly didn't have any problem with others being subjected to the same treatment, as long as she doesn't get insulted. This scenario makes the blood elves' admittion into the Horde look like the work of a genious.

Welcome on board, latest hypocrite and senseless elf addition of the Horde. To think that we could've had forest trolls of Mag'har orcs instead of this.

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The combination of the current Horde races is ridiculous to begin with. Tauren with Forsaken? Blood Elves with Trolls/Orcs? Pandaren at all?

Definitely. It is becoming harder and harder to grasp the composition together. We could've gotten Mag'har orcs, Mok'nathal, ogres or forest trolls instead of a group of elves that go to war with someone over one "insult".

[Maljinwo]

The combination of the current Horde races is ridiculous to begin with. Tauren with Forsaken? Blood Elves with Trolls/Orcs? Pandaren at all?

Forsaken and Night Elves make no sense to be aligned with any faction. But hey, it's what we have, unfortunately

[Zulkhan]

She thinks the Nightborne are still cowards who'll take the easy path, and what do they do to prove her wrong? Nothing, they immediately side with someone who doesn't ask them to prove their loyalty, because it's easier.

You can't prove your loyalty until you don't choose a side to swear allegiance to. The choice itself it's not related to the willingness to prove their loyalty or not.

And this does fit the Nightbore we saw in Suramar, the lazy aristocrats. It doesn't fit Thalyssra and her resistance, which seemed willing to do what was needed. But I guess they only did it because they were in a desperate position, and the moment they healed their addiction and took the city back, they lost that courage.

You would have a point if "doing what was needed" equalized to bow and beg before Night Elves to demand forgiveness, which seems what they may have wanted. Thalyssra outright criticized the Night Elves' arrogance and mistrust, which, actually, is pretty asinine since Thalyssra and her resistance proved to be the exact opposite of the people who hid beneath a shield or gave up their sovereignty to the Legion, yet Tyrande utterly ignored that and simply clinged over her bias and resentment.

So no, Tyrande's dumb portrayal, if anything, is proving to be one of Warcraft's rare examples of consistency.

A bold claim from people who just spent 10,000 years in a bubble.

Hence the statement "I do not intend to endure any more of it".

They also opened their borders to demon invaders without a fight.

Something for which the current Nightborne government rebelled against.

[Wildspirit]

The worst part is that Thalyssra witnessed the same being done to Alleria in Silvermoon as Tyrande did to her; Tyrande scorned her in advance and Lor'themar/Rommath scorned Alleria in advance too, but Thalyssra seemingly didn't have any problem with others being subjected to the same treatment, as long as she doesn't get insulted. This scenario makes the blood elves' admittion into the Horde look like the work of a genious.

Welcome on board, latest hypocrite and senseless elf addition of the Horde. To think that we could've had forest trolls of Mag'har orcs instead of this.

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Definitely. It is becoming harder and harder to grasp the composition together. We could've gotten Mag'har orcs, Mok'nathal, ogres or forest trolls instead of a group of elves that go to war with someone over one "insult".

we'll probably get those in time if Blizzard can find a way to bring them over to the Horde at some point.

The problem with the 4 allied races we're getting access to for pre ordering BFA is that they had to be tied to LEGION content. Void Elves, Lightforged Draenai, Highmountain Tauren and Nightborn fits the profile (and were honestly the only races easily portable from NPC to PC).

So yeah, Nightborn's reasons for joining the Horde may seem trivial and somehow convoluted but like many said, Liadrin was far more ready to help them (because of her personnal experience with addiction) than Tyrande that proved condescendant and quite frankly rude with the Nightborns. Sometimes, diplomacy's a bitch.

[Projectmars]

The worst part is that Thalyssra witnessed the same being done to Alleria in Silvermoon as Tyrande did to her; Tyrande scorned her in advance and Lor'themar/Rommath scorned Alleria in advance too, but Thalyssra seemingly didn't have any problem with others being subjected to the same treatment, as long as she doesn't get insulted. This scenario makes the blood elves' admittion into the Horde look like the work of a genious.

Welcome on board, latest hypocrite and senseless elf addition of the Horde. To think that we could've had forest trolls of Mag'har orcs instead of this.

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Definitely. It is becoming harder and harder to grasp the composition together. We could've gotten Mag'har orcs, Mok'nathal, ogres or forest trolls instead of a group of elves that go to war with someone over one "insult".

Still better than what we got. We coulda had Vrykul or Furbolgs or Wildhammers. Instead we get edgelord insane elves and a group who abandoned their kin for thousands of years. The horde won big time with the Allied Races choices

[Deleted]

Well yes, they do prove Tyrande right with their actions, wich is funny in a way but tragic in another as they shun their saviors seconds after they save them. I just can't find that unrealistic display of lack of honor to be believable.

Tbh though, i don't care. I hate playing Nightborn in the court of stars. The animations sucked. Dunno if they are keeping thoseor not, but i was never impressed.

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Still better than what we got. We coulda had Vrykul or Furbolgs or Wildhammers. Instead we get edgelord insane elves and a group who abandoned their kin for thousands of years. The horde won big time with the Allied Races choices

You know we can still have them? Theres gonna be more allied races. Nothing wrong with some edgy elves. They are at least more interesting than dranei with tatoos. We already have dranei and their bodies get covered in gear.
Quite honestly, wildhammers and dark iron dwarves are a waste when you could already make them in bronzebeards.
Vrykul and Furbolgs... let's go! What i want is new races, not just one cosmetic option for existing ones passing as a full new race, unless it goes to a faction that doesn't have that race archtype yet.

Like, how much cooler would it be if Dark iron and lightforged went to the horde and Zandalari and Highmountain went to the alliance? It would add alot more options and would blur the lines between the factions and the pointless war.

[Zatachi]

Didnt read the whole thread so maybe this was said before but the most ridiculus reason for the nightborne is:


Thalyssra:
No, we shalt not use the nightwell anymore, let that suXXXer rot.
*turns around*
My, what a nice well you have lets join you.


Well, Blizz CAN write good stories (every cutscene ever by them) sadly they chose not to.....

[Deleted]

Night Elves are staunchly anti-magic, having only just unexiled those of their kind who practice magic, and just barely. They do not want the Nightborne in the Alliance, they are everything the Night Elves find profane.

It's like being sober for 10 years and then your new roommate moves in and they're an unrepentant drunk. The Night Elves don't like the Blood Elves and High Elves for the same reason, but are willing to put up with the High Elves because they were already in the Alliance when they joined and theres so few of them.


It will be odd to me, however, if the Night Elves don't raise at least a minor fuss about the addition of Void Elves to the Alliance. The Void Elves are like the drunk room mate except they've also picked up heroin and meth addiction.

Great analogy on that, thanks. Though I get the reasoning for kicking out VE out of Silvermoon (because they are or at least seem to be a threat to the Sunwell, who knows if there is a hidden layer behind all that), the only reason for them to join Alliance would be that their internal knowledge of Silvermoon's latest politics and things would benefit the Alliance tactically. They are a tool to be used.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Well yes, they do prove Tyrande right with their actions, wich is funny in a way but tragic in another as they shun their saviors seconds after they save them. I just can't find that unrealistic display of lack of honor to be believable.

Tbh though, i don't care. I hate playing Nightborn in the court of stars. The animations sucked. Dunno if they are keeping thoseor not, but i was never impressed.

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You know we can still have them? Theres gonna be more allied races. Nothing wrong with some edgy elves. They are at least more interesting than dranei with tatoos. We already have dranei and their bodies get covered in gear.
Quite honestly, wildhammers and dark iron dwarves are a waste when you could already make them in bronzebeards.
Vrykul and Furbolgs... let's go! What i want is new races, not just one cosmetic option for existing ones passing as a full new race, unless it goes to a faction that doesn't have that race archtype yet.

Like, how much cooler would it be if Dark iron and lightforged went to the horde and Zandalari and Highmountain went to the alliance? It would add alot more options and would blur the lines between the factions and the pointless war.

Nightborne used some night elf animations, and went into freeze A pose for others, because they didn't have a full set of animations because they were an NPC race, actual playable nightborne will have their own animations.

They didn't shun the night elves, Tyrande shunned them, she gave them the cold shoulder so they did what most people would do and joined the side that was genuinely nice to them.

[Ramz]

Well, Blizz CAN write good stories (every cutscene ever by them) sadly they chose not to.....

Vol'Jin would have a word with you.

Also "Draenor is free!".

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They didn't shun the night elves, Tyrande shunned them, she gave them the cold shoulder so they did what most people would do and joined the side that was genuinely nice to them.

She was just cautious. And that was reasonable from her PoV. As much as I dislike Tyrande imo her actions totally made sense. What doesn't make sense is to cater to all elves that are in trouble and not demand something from them in return.

Nothing is for free, and my impression was that NB expect some sort of special treatment. To not ever call them back on their actions where they shown that they are unreliable, to not ask for them to prove their worth, to not ask for them to simply participate to clear mess they caused.

Seems that they expected outsiders to come clean their mess, do job for them, and be all nice and supportive, pat them on their back and all of that.
At least it was my imperssion so yeah... nobility that truly cannot fathom to face reality.
So yea I have hard time treating them seriously.

[Noram54]

"So you guys both helped us out a lot, wanna be friends?"

"Sure we'll be your friends!"
"Uh...maybe we will, I don't really like you very much, we'll have to see..."

Who to pick... :thinking:

[Nihilan]

"So you guys both helped us out a lot, wanna be friends?"

"Sure we'll be your friends!"
"Uh...maybe we will, I don't really like you very much, we'll have to see..."

Who to pick... :thinking:

This is a pretty brilliant synopsis of the situation, but unfortunately does not allow for the head-cannon of those who for some reason feel that they have been personally wronged IRL by those nasty mean old Nightborne NPCs.

[Camthur]

Hey look, it's those people who hid behind a shield when we needed them and then let the Legion in and worked with them. Hey look, they are addicted magic like what destroyed our old empire. (they were still when they first met each other) I should totally trust those guys. The Nightborne are just delusional if they can't see why the Night Elves would be wary of trusting them immediately.

[Noram54]

Hey look, it's those people who hid behind a shield when we needed them and then let the Legion in and worked with them. Hey look, they are addicted magic like what destroyed our old empire. (they were still when they first met each other) I should totally trust those guys. The Nightborne are just delusional if they can't see why the Night Elves would be wary of trusting them immediately.

...So they shouldn't join the Alliance then? Cool.

[Mehrunes]

So they don't thank the Alliance at all for their help nor do they wish to join them all because Tyrande was cautious with them? Completely disregarding the fact that they might be able to have great bonds with other races in the Alliance, they decide to join the Horde which is full of goblins, undead, orcs and trolls. The latter hate elves.
And that's somehow a BETTER choice than Tyrande's cautionary approach to them? It's so, so ridiculous. Dignity? Yeah good look having dignity in the Horde, Azeroth's rejects.

And you are completely disregarding the fact that they already found common ground with the Blood Elves, so whoopty doo. Potential bonds with humans or Gnomes vs already formed bonds with Blood Elves who share very similar experiences and outlook with the Nightborne. As far as the abundant threads on the topic, yours is the weakest.

Also, Darkspears never really hated Elves and they are in the same faction as Blood Elves for a decade without any issue. Zandalari likely join after the Nightborne. Also, look at all dat dignity in the Alliance, where even a 10k old military and political leader is schooled with no protest by a human and everyone is in general overshadowed by humans and loses their identity in the process.

She was just cautious. And that was reasonable from her PoV. As much as I dislike Tyrande imo her actions totally made sense. What doesn't make sense is to cater to all elves that are in trouble and not demand something from them in return.

Nothing is for free, and my impression was that NB expect some sort of special treatment. To not ever call them back on their actions where they shown that they are unreliable, to not ask for them to prove their worth, to not ask for them to simply participate to clear mess they caused.

Seems that they expected outsiders to come clean their mess, do job for them, and be all nice and supportive, pat them on their back and all of that.
At least it was my imperssion so yeah... nobility that truly cannot fathom to face reality.
So yea I have hard time treating them seriously.

What on earth are you talking about? The Nightborne started the insurrection and it was already progressing by the time other Elves tagged along. Thalyssra almost died to the cause, so directing some nonsense about Nightborne reliability at her in particular is also misplaced.

[Eapoe]

So they don't thank the Alliance at all for their help nor do they wish to join them all because Tyrande was cautious with them? Completely disregarding the fact that they might be able to have great bonds with other races in the Alliance, they decide to join the Horde which is full of goblins, undead, orcs and trolls. The latter hate elves.
And that's somehow a BETTER choice than Tyrande's cautionary approach to them? It's so, so ridiculous. Dignity? Yeah good look having dignity in the Horde, Azeroth's rejects.

The Nightborne then call the Alliance stagnant. STAGNANT? What's stagnant about it? Sounds to me like Tyrande is completely right in being wary of the Nightborne, who seem to imply they want to seek power at any cost once more. And they call TYRANDE too proud! Holy smokes, the irony going on here!

Would you thank someone that is going to invade your home with or without your help? Alliance and horde both were going into Suramar, with or without the Nightfallen/Nightbornes help. The difference is, the Horde formed bonds with Thalysra and the Nightborne, while Tyrande (representing the Alliance) chastised and berated them.
Keep in mind, during the 2nd war (I think) the Nightborne sealed themselves off from the conflict (selfishly, I admit) to try and avoid it and keep their people alive. During this time, the NE's would naturally have resentment to them, while the Nightborne just wouldn't care about either faction over the thousands of years. Add on that the Nightborne continued to use and research Arcane magics, which is something the NE's forbid and penalized others with death if caught practicing it (although that practice has died off), and it is looked down upon by some still within the NE faction.
So, knowing that, who would they side with if they chose to join either in the end?

[Camthur]

There's somebody way better that they could have allied with than the Horde or Alliance. It's one of the most powerful magical groups on Azeroth. Dalaran

You'd think that a city full of mages would be very interested in making friends with Elves who have mastered magic and magic based crafting and have an immense amount of knowledge just waiting to be tapped. Choose to be neutral and be buds with the floating city. (Heck, it's right there within spitting distance of Suramar. Neither side would risk bothering you for fear of ticking off Dalaran. (and you could freely work with and trade with both sides to your heart's content)

[Projectmars]

Keep in mind, during the War of the Ancients the Nightborne sealed themselves off from the conflict (selfishly, I admit) to try and avoid it and keep their people alive.

2nd war was WC2, which was a lot more recent than the nightborne closing themselves off.