Poll: What is your opinion on Tier 21 now?

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  1. #41
    I love that it is a demonic set because it is the better designed specc IMO, but the numbers are still not teally good so...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mmowin View Post
    But we need to spam Demon's Bite to generate fury even with high crit rate, there are times if you get unlucky you need to use demon's bite to get going again.
    This is not true. Sure there are times you get unlucky but with high crit those times are a lot less. Demon's Bite is a STUPID BUTTON WHICH DOESNT' DO ANYTHING BUT GIVE BACK FURY. Get really high crit and you wont have to hit that stupid button as much.

  3. #43
    Personally I don't mind the Demonic build, its not my favorite of this expansions builds, but its not terrible to play. What actually bothers me is when I get bad strings of RNG either not generating souls with Chaos Strike or on pull when my first Demon's Bite doesn't generate enough fury for a 25 fury Eye Beam(I currently have a 5th trait of this)...this sadly happens a few times a night too, do you know how unlucky that has to be to proc that poorly? Demon's Bite generates a minimum of 20 fury, I have the ring too, so an extra 1-14 fury...the odds of me getting under 25 fury shouldn't be as high as they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The simplicity of the rotation is the primary reason for the RNG...
    Please, there are specs in the game with easier rotations than DH...pull your garbage argument out of your ass and see that it isn't a good argument for rng or lower dps.

  4. #44
    So as someone else pointed out in the official wow forums, the numbers are in and DH looks like its at the bottom. The only thing that makes me doubt the numbers is not knowing which havocs are demonic vs CB. I've been doing fine in most of the fights... though I'd say I could do better if i wasn't having to target switch (portal) or grab a pod. Just not sure how this spec is going to work in the future.


    The only thing that hurts a lot is DA at times, so I'm trying to maintain a near 60% crit rating because I'm tired of being bent from the RNG. Also Nemesis.... just doesn't seem to be fully utilized on any fights past High Command.

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    Are these forums really that deserted....
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-09 at 12:35 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarre View Post
    So as someone else pointed out in the official wow forums, the numbers are in and DH looks like its at the bottom. The only thing that makes me doubt the numbers is not knowing which havocs are demonic vs CB. I've been doing fine in most of the fights... though I'd say I could do better if i wasn't having to target switch (portal) or grab a pod. Just not sure how this spec is going to work in the future.


    The only thing that hurts a lot is DA at times, so I'm trying to maintain a near 60% crit rating because I'm tired of being bent from the RNG. Also Nemesis.... just doesn't seem to be fully utilized on any fights past High Command.

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    Are these forums really that deserted....
    They're not. We just don't care anymore.

    It's the end of the expansion, forget about changes, they're not going to come.

    I'm tired of suggesting Blizzard the removal of RNG from Havoc since NH started. Also suggested Nemesis reworks. 0 changes.

    The class is how it is, a RNG shitfest with 0 personal skill involved. This is Legion, so rerrolling ain't a thing. Just deal with it, wait for BfA and see if changes are coming.

    There's literally nothing we can do at this point. Such a shame for the new class.

  6. #46
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirofune View Post
    They're not. We just don't care anymore.
    ....
    I have to agree here. I’m quite sad about our status since middle NH also. Mostly regarding RNG, bad ability design and my choice to run DH as main .
    The worst is when you dont have time to reroll you cannot do anything and just to suffer till next expansion.

    My opinion about T21 design:
    - why the hell is blizz buffing Eye beam, when we are highly crit dependant and eye beam always crits
    - why the hell is haste at the end when there are other stats we would prefer more
    - and who invented this proc "cast -> stand still for ~3s -> get it:" for melee

    Ridiculous.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Menax View Post
    Quite overdoing it with that statement, aye? I surely admit the differences between tries can be huge since Demonic involves even more rng thant T20 which only had fury gain to toy around with, but barely above tanks is never the case for me and i mostly get 80-90% logs only.

    But playing Demonic feels somewhat good while being annoying as hell all the time, it's weird. I mean i am one of those hyperactive melees that always wasd in a fight, but just bc it's a habbit, but being FORCED to is annoying. There is no depth in that, there is no link to the specc in any way it is just bad gameplay and that sucks a lot for me. Just let CS refund the fury and reset all CDs tied to the soul fragment mechanic and i at least would enjoy the specc more, even though the lottery still exists.
    My problem is the opposite actually, where there are those spots where you dont want to move to over cap your fury from orbs, it just kills me standing still lmao.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by laco View Post
    I have to agree here. I’m quite sad about our status since middle NH also. Mostly regarding RNG, bad ability design and my choice to run DH as main .
    The worst is when you dont have time to reroll you cannot do anything and just to suffer till next expansion.

    My opinion about T21 design:
    - why the hell is blizz buffing Eye beam, when we are highly crit dependant and eye beam always crits
    - why the hell is haste at the end when there are other stats we would prefer more
    - and who invented this proc "cast -> stand still for ~3s -> get it:" for melee

    Ridiculous.
    I can see that. I have already resolved myself not to play next expansion. I'm a DH main and I'm done with waiting , hoping and wishing. This after witnessing and experiencing first hand how Blizzard turned a great idea (DH) into one of their worst creations. They have no incentives apparently to fix DHs _right_ now and insist on keeping punishing class mechanics that (RNGEESUS/souls "Your dps is on the floor.. go and get it"/nemesis) as a way to do mythic raiding. No other class player has to deal with this crap at all and certainly not all at once.

  9. #49
    Unpopular opinion: it frustrates me that blizz rushes to hotfix rogues and balance druids for their "two button" gameplay or unintended gear interactions but leaves havoc with what is essentially a two button spec that wiggles back and forth and eyebeams sometimes. Also, nemesis is stupid.

    Why is blade dance, throw glaive, other talents etc useless now? Why is blizzard seemingly okay with this?
    Last edited by Happyducky; 2018-01-11 at 08:36 PM. Reason: this is not about momentum

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyducky View Post
    Unpopular opinion: it frustrates me that blizz rushes to hotfix rogues and balance druids for their "two button" gameplay or unintended gear interactions but leaves havoc with what is essentially a two button spec that wiggles back and forth and eyebeams sometimes. Also, nemesis is stupid.

    Why is blade dance, throw glaive, fel rush etc useless now? Why is blizzard seemingly okay with this?
    Fel rush isn't useless. Use it in your rotation where/when appropriate. Blizz has been and will mostly likely continue to be slow on Havoc. The fact that they even partially undid the PTRnerf on T21 is a miracle. We can only be happy for that I guess. They do think of DHs but not the way we do. Most of their intentions are like with priority #1: That Havoc DH doesn't outside any of the other classes. This has been from day 1 of the expansion. Plus they obviously have a devil of a time balancing DH in heroic/normal where the vast majority of the player base is... vs mythic. PvP wise they are even more concerned and make sure havoc hits like a wet noodle and can be CCd by everyone even your grandmother playing a one armed murloc
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-10 at 03:12 PM.

  11. #51
    As was stated above, the only thing I don't like is that the set is tied to the demonic spec.
    And demonic spec brings our already RNG class into a whole new dimension.

    I had pulls without good crit chains or soul fragments where I do 1,5 mil and I had godly proc chains where I do 3 mil with all the procs available. In the exact same gear on the exact same boss. And I'm not badly geared. It's just too much of a difference and I think they could have made it more consistent with a more interesting 4 piece bonus.

    2 piece is just too godly for cleave and M+.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarre View Post
    Fel rush isn't useless.
    I'd rather use the GCD on Chaos Strike, or Demon's Bite if I'm low on fury...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Livonya View Post
    I'd rather use the GCD on Chaos Strike, or Demon's Bite if I'm low on fury...
    Same... I'm just sick of the people who wax poetic about momentum and the shitty 1/2/3 button zip around like an RTARD spec that was also. If you want to Fel Rush ... use it. Otherwise go away LOL.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarre View Post
    Same... I'm just sick of the people who wax poetic about momentum and the shitty 1/2/3 button zip around like an RTARD spec that was also. If you want to Fel Rush ... use it. Otherwise go away LOL.
    I didn't once mention momentum though...you said use it in the rotation where appropriate but demonic setup doesn't really use fel rush anymore.
    Last edited by Happyducky; 2018-01-11 at 03:34 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyducky View Post
    I didn't once mention momentum though...you said use it in the rotation where appropriate but demonic setup doesn't really use fel rush anymore.
    Sorry if i need to state the obvious but if you are going towards a pack of adds and you can use Fel Rush rather than running then do it (E. G. Eonar). It is still useful there. Otherwise yea, there are better things to do with Demonic than FR all over the place for no reason. I think we all know this already. Point is when we are talking about Demonic the first thing that comes to mind about making it a better spec should NOT be "FR" and why it is "useless" or not. Momentum (AKA tying DPS to movement in a game which is 90% soak/ stack-and-move or dont-Fn-move-at-all mechanics) had its day in a way easier raid instance and even then mostly in heroic/normal. Let it die.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-11 at 06:18 PM.

  16. #56
    Oh my god of course fel rush is amazing for movement, I thought that was a given FFS. You are cherry picking from what I said just to try to rant about momentum and that wasn't even what I was talking about, heck I didn't even give my opinion on the talent at all.

    Okay, fine, before you try to take my point out of context to fit your anti-momentum agenda IGNORE THAT I MENTIONED FEL RUSH. Heck, I'll edit it and remove it from the other list of abilities JUST FOR YOU. "Let it die."

    My original point was that right now in current endgame raiding it feels like we are using less than half our toolkit because demonic is too busy spamming two buttons with eyebeam at all times. We are still forced into nemesis, which is a very limiting talent that is IMO not very fun at all. The damage is RNG and the damage swings from that RNG are huge.
    Last edited by Happyducky; 2018-01-11 at 08:46 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyducky View Post
    Oh my god of course fel rush is amazing for movement, I thought that was a given FFS. ."

    My original point was that right now in current endgame raiding it feels like we are using less than half our toolkit because demonic is too busy spamming two buttons with eyebeam at all times. We are still forced into nemesis, which is a very limiting talent that is IMO not very fun at all. The damage is RNG and the damage swings from that RNG are huge.
    Fine I can agree with you there. There is definitely a design flaw with DH. Has been all expansion. I dont see them fixing it though any time soon. And given how they want to keep classes simple I can only imagine future expansions will be the same. I am still shaking my head at the removal of tier... maybe that complicated things? I dont know. Their idea of making things surprising? complicated? addictive like gambling? by making abilities RNG based doesn't amuse me in the slightest. No matter what they try to fix I think they will always have that element in there.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-12 at 03:42 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarre View Post
    Fine I can agree with you there. There is definitely a design flaw with DH.
    Not really, it's a flaw of most classes and specs - most of them have to press like 3 buttons.
    We have a couple of more complex choices - like survival hunters - but guess what - not a single person is playing them.
    People complain about easy rotations, but they don't wanna play complex ones either...

  19. #59
    I like the set but hate this RNG and with this build is just painfull to see such fluctuations between pulls.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitinariy View Post
    Not really, it's a flaw of most classes and specs - most of them have to press like 3 buttons.
    We have a couple of more complex choices - like survival hunters - but guess what - not a single person is playing them.
    People complain about easy rotations, but they don't wanna play complex ones either...
    Nah sorry it IS a design flaw (Bad design if you feel better with that) if having something a bit more stable were the goal. We do not have any set/predictable DPS on pulls (we have mass variance). All the the other classes are much more stable. These facts can be explained by the fact that DH is the newest class. Certainly they need to give DH much more attention than they have (Right now they treat it more as an experiment). The only thing predictable about DH is how unpredictable it is. This class has things no other class deals with at the moment. And while it could make the class cool... they simply need to be worked out so its as workable in mythic raid scenarios as it is in LFR.
    Last edited by GamerDH; 2018-01-22 at 02:42 AM.

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