Classic servers and access to retired mounts (and mogs)

[ComputerNerd]

Just because you two appraise the world through envy doesn't mean everyone does. Believe it or not, people want these mounts because of what they look like, not how rare they are. That's why people predominantly mention the Sabers, Raptors and Horses but nobody ever says "Oh, I wish I had a Red Wolf or an Icy Blue Mechanostrider Mod A!" (see the post where I linked the images to understand why).

You keep making the nonsensical argument that because people think it would be cool to have, say, a white horse in WoW, white horses are super valuable and they should be kept unavailable... Or maybe people just want a fairly traditional mount-color combination to be available in game? Because, if you think about it, it's kind of absurd that WoW doesn't cover this fantasy?



And this sums up the attitude of the dark side of the Classic fanboys (I'm not going to claim they are all like you). You disagree with me, so I must be a liar. So kind of you to explain what my motivation is, as if you know it better than I do All just to proudly hoist the flag of "Everything for me, nothing for you" the supremely entitled "Classicists" like to fly.

Well, guess what, you can't ignore reality. Up until now, these mounts were only seen when veterans showed them off, which happened almost never. Most people didn't even know about them, and even if they did, they didn't have solid footing to ask Blizzard to bring them back when there was no content for them. Blizzard wasn't going to simply add them to the vendor just for the sake of having them in game. On top of that, starting Cata the models were showing their age, people largely lost interest in them, so it felt more worthwhile to let them be unique.

But now they will be visible on Classic servers. Now they are getting updated models. And sooner or later the issue of merged collections will be brought up, if not in Classic then in Legacy TBC or Wrath, when the infrastructure for mount collecting existed. It's one thing to tell people the mounts shouldn't be added back, and completely another to tell them they can't carry them over after they earn them in Classic 2.0! Adding them back to Standard somehow is merely an alternative to avoid an invasion of mount collector tourists on Classic servers (that, and I do think Classic timewalking has to be in the works).

Answer that if you can, but no more BS arguments about exclusivity please. Classic fans can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't have a Classic server for nostalgic veterans and at the same time let all their Vanilla items stay exclusive so they can make newer players "envious" in Standard. Playing WoW in 2004-2005 doesn't make you the all-deserving bellybutton of the world. If you're going to dig up old content, do it for everyone.

You have repeatedly presented an inconsistent argument.
You want the mount to improve your collection on live, and that is what you don't like to be seen as, hence the stupid argument about "customisation".
You don't like the argument about exclusivity because you know we are right.
And that is what you see the mounts as, otherwise they would not matter as much as they clearly do to you.

You cant keep telling us that it is purely from a customisation point of view, which given the tiny portion of the whole makes them insignificant and therefore nullifying your argument about why they should be added.

Keep lying to us and yourself all you want, but your motivations are clear.
No matter how much you tell us otherwise.

They are exclusive and special, which if you are going to say is BS would mean that their continued unavailability would mean nothing.
But to you it obviously does, so making you a liar.

[Accendor]

If Blizzard is going to open official Vanilla servers, I expect they will feature a lot of vanity items that are currently exceedingly rare. I'm thinking primarily of the original epic class mounts that were retired in 1.4, but a lot of other things fall into this category, from the Zul'Gurub mounts to T3 and Naxx crafted gear, and perhaps even the Amani Battle Bear if legacy servers continue on to Burning Crusade.

Since I primarily play the game to collect stuff, I can't help but wonder... what sort of effect should we see from this on the Standard servers?

I'm sure many people will want to use the Classic servers to add legacy items to their Standard collections. It makes sense in a way. Since these items will be at least temporarily, if not permanently available on Vanilla servers, their value as keepsakes for people who used to play back in the day will be greatly diminished. Right now, your only chance of seeing a Green Kodo or an Ancient Frostsaber is to encounter a veteran player lucky enough to have kept one. With Classic servers, all you need to do is log there and you will potentially see them everywhere.

That being said, I don't think the people who lobbied for Classic would like their game to be modernized with mount and transmog tabs just for the sake of collectors, and many collectors might not enjoy feeling like they "have to" play Classic intensively to get something they want to use in Standard.

So I propose two potential solutions that would make everyone happy:

1. Simply reintroduce these mounts and transmogs to the Standard game, or change the means of acquisition from BMAH to actual gameplay. They can come from current content rather the old vendor or instance. They can even have new names, in order to preserve the integrity of the originals, simply add new mounts using those models. Since horses are receiving a graphic update in BFA, kodos already received one, and other mounts may get one too in time, the extra colors are particularly desirable.

2. Add hidden achievements on Classic servers that translate into rewards on Standard. For example, leveling a char to 60 will grant you a token in Standard WoW that you can exchange for one of the original epic mounts, killing KT on a Classic realms grants you a token you can exchange for a full T3 set in Standard, etc. This is more of a middle ground solution. There is no visible intrusion on Classic realms in the form of a Collector tab, and players still need to invest somewhat in their Classic characters to get the rewards, but a bit less than it would take to actually buy the mount or collect individual items.

What do you guys think? How would you like this handled?


P.S. To edgy Vanilla lovers who think Vanilla mounts and mogs should remain exclusive to Vanilla servers, don't be hypocrites. You wanted access to retired content in a way you could enjoy, and Blizzard listened to you. There is no reason why collectors shouldn't have the same expectations - only we don't want the gameplay, just the vanity items.

Solution 3: Do not connect Retail and Classic Mount and Armor Transmog.

[JJShadoe]

Classic fans can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't have a Classic server for nostalgic veterans and at the same time let all their Vanilla items stay exclusive so they can make newer players "envious" in Standard.

Huh? Yes you can. Why couldn't you? This is the way it should be, and this is the way it's going to happen.

Playing WoW in 2004-2005 doesn't make you the all-deserving bellybutton of the world. If you're going to dig up old content, do it for everyone.

No, but it does make you deserving of the things you accomplished at the time. As it should be. The old content is being dug up for everyone, it's called a Classic server. Play on it if you'd like, it'll probably be pretty neat.

[Fal]

what if they just let you transfer your character off of classic to live, and then you can carry with you all the things in your inventory? I would be ok with this

[Coconut]

You have repeatedly presented an inconsistent argument.
You want the mount to improve your collection on live, and that is what you don't like to be seen as, hence the stupid argument about "customisation".
You don't like the argument about exclusivity because you know we are right.
And that is what you see the mounts as, otherwise they would not matter as much as they clearly do to you.

You cant keep telling us that it is purely from a customisation point of view, which given the tiny portion of the whole makes them insignificant and therefore nullifying your argument about why they should be added.

Keep lying to us and yourself all you want, but your motivations are clear.
No matter how much you tell us otherwise.

They are exclusive and special, which if you are going to say is BS would mean that their continued unavailability would mean nothing.
But to you it obviously does, so making you a liar.

I'm sorry, but your argument doesn't have any sort of logical flow. You make untrue statements about myself, my motivations and my sincerity, you draw conclusions that do not follow from your statements ("you do not like the argument because you know we're right" - one would have to be a terribly insecure 5 year old to even begin to take such an argument seriously), and worst of all you use an entirely circular narrative based on which Blizzard might as well remove all mounts from the game!

"People only want mounts because they are special and exclusive, therefore they should not be available. If a mount is available, then it means nothing and it might as well be removed" - this is what you are saying. Remove all mounts, I guess? Look, it's ok to be a hater, you don't have to be interested in mount collecting, but don't pretend like nobody else is. Bloody well read your own signature: "T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption." It applies to you fantastically well... How can you not see the irony here?

I am not a liar. I simply care about mounts. Many mounts. Different mounts. My many, many, many threads suggesting mounts that were never even implemented at all should be ample proof that "exclusivity" is the least thing on my mind (I actually want the Ancient Nightsaber because a. it was the original Warcraft III huntress mount, and I'm big on Warcraft III nostalgia, and b. I had it back on the first private server I played on back when Vanilla was current - which is barely relevant, because I only bought it there because of a.).

If you have to cry about exclusivity, by all means express your opinion. But don't try to hide away how weak that argument is right now (in light of the announcement of Classic servers) by calling me a liar.

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No, but it does make you deserving of the things you accomplished at the time. As it should be. The old content is being dug up for everyone, it's called a Classic server. Play on it if you'd like, it'll probably be pretty neat.

And by what logic do you tell people who "play on it" and earn mounts which don't exist in Live that they can't use them in Live? Your appeal to your own authority? You are deluding yourself if you think you can stop that, the proverbial can of worms has already been opened. This is only a matter of finding a clean-cut and healthy implementation.

[ComputerNerd]

I'm sorry, but your argument doesn't have any sort of logical flow. You make untrue statements about myself, my motivations and my sincerity, you draw conclusions that do not follow from your statements ("you do not like the argument because you know we're right" - one would have to be a terribly insecure 5 year old to even begin to take such an argument seriously), and worst of all you use an entirely circular narrative based on which Blizzard might as well remove all mounts from the game!

"People only want mounts because they are special and exclusive, therefore they should not be available. If a mount is available, then it means nothing and it might as well be removed" - this is what you are saying. Remove all mounts, I guess? Look, it's ok to be a hater, you don't have to be interested in mount collecting, but don't pretend like nobody else is. Bloody well read your own signature: "T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption." It applies to you fantastically well... How can you not see the irony here?

I am not a liar. I simply care about mounts. Many mounts. Different mounts. My many, many, many threads suggesting mounts that were never even implemented at all should be ample proof that "exclusivity" is the least thing on my mind (I actually want the Ancient Nightsaber because a. it was the original Warcraft III huntress mount, and I'm big on Warcraft III nostalgia, and b. I had it back on the first private server I played on back when Vanilla was current - which is barely relevant, because I only bought it there because of a.).

If you have to cry about exclusivity, by all means express your opinion. But don't try to hide away how weak that argument is right now (in light of the announcement of Classic servers) by calling me a liar.

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And by what logic do you tell people who "play on it" and earn mounts which don't exist in Live that they can't use them in Live? Your appeal to your own authority? You are deluding yourself if you think you can stop that, the proverbial can of worms has already been opened. This is only a matter of finding a clean-cut and healthy implementation.

My argument is very logical, you just dont like it.
They are special, mean something and therefore dictate why you want them to carry over to live.
But when pointed out as your motivation, you proceed to lie and say they aren't special, that they are just part of the customisation which due to being a small part of the whole shouldn't actually be necessary to be carried over.

You dug the hole yourself in not being honest about why you wanted them.
I just highlighted that, and you respond by digging yourself even deeper with a bunch of lies.

You are a liar, you want them because they are exclusive.
Despite your insistence otherwise the fraction they make up of the total isn't losing players some huge element of customisation.

[Coconut]

My argument is very logical, you just dont like it.
They are special, mean something and therefore dictate why you want them to carry over to live.
But when pointed out as your motivation, you proceed to lie and say they aren't special, that they are just part of the customisation which due to being a small part of the whole are special.

You dug the hole yourself in not being honest about why you wanted them.
I just highlighted that, and you respond by digging yourself even deeper with a bunch of lies.

Talk about digging yourself into a hole... Ok, you've stated your point. I'm confident enough with my previous posts, so from now on we can just let the other people who are following this thread decide for themselves which one of us is right. It's the only way to move forward.

[ComputerNerd]

Talk about digging yourself into a hole... Ok, you've stated your point. I'm confident enough with my previous posts, so from now on we can just let the other people who are following this thread decide for themselves which one of us is right. It's the only way to move forward.

No, you dug the hole yourself with contradictory statements as to the reasoning, the latter of which actually presented no reason to carry them over.
Their supposed lack of importance which is at complete odds with a request to carry them over.
I even presented a quoted example stating explicitly what you can't admit yourself, that the mounts can be a players main or even sole motivation for playing classic, and nobody can give me a reason why that motivation is a good thing for it.
And that is your motivation, but are so desperate to avoid being judged on that, which you should be.

You say others should make up their mind, but they should do with full information as to the consequences.
And the experience brought by players there only to enhance their live account, not being there for the experience it brings on its own is a consequence they should be judging that request on.
And that is a pretty big one that you wanted to deny would ever happen, despite it being the very thing you would bring to the game.

[Coconut]

@ComputerNerd Yes, people can go back and start reading here, where you provide "proof" for my so-called contradiction. There is no contradiction at all. I stated:

A. These mounts never required particularly difficult content, only leveling to 60 and grinding gold, which was pretty baseline and people continued doing throughout Vanilla, and they were never presented as a challenge, so they can't be seen as an outright "prestige" reward in the sense of CMs, Mythic, Gladiator or Glory mounts. Their rarity was entirely incidental (this has been heavily argued in the previous pages of the thread)

B. Some of them offer some cool looking colors, so it makes sense that people would want them.

If you see a contradiction in that, it is your folly, one that others are free to agree with if they want. There, the information is on the table. I'm well and truly done continuing this conversation with you.

[ComputerNerd]

@ComputerNerd Yes, people can go back and start reading here, where you provide "proof" for my so-called contradiction. There is no contradiction at all. I stated:

A. These mounts never required particularly difficult content, only leveling to 60 and grinding gold, which was pretty baseline and people continued doing throughout Vanilla, and they were never presented as a challenge, so they can't be seen as an outright "prestige" reward in the sense of CMs, Mythic, Gladiator or Glory mounts. Their rarity was entirely incidental (this has been heavily argued in the previous pages of the thread)

B. Some of them offer some cool looking colors, so it makes sense that people would want them.

If you see a contradiction in that, it is your folly, one that others are free to agree with if they want. There, the information is on the table. I'm well and truly done continuing this conversation with you.

Can you explain how saying that the mounts are not important or special is giving us a reason for them to be on live.
Because that is the contradiction, you keep arguing that they should be while repeatedly downplaying their importance.
You dont want them judging with full facts.
I am presenting that you are trying to hide.

If you want to see a real example of what happens when players visit content with a loot motivation rather than the actual experience.
Then look at the Molten Core anniversary event, where even basic instructions were repeatedly ignored, or some even wiped the raid on purpose.
Because of their motivations for being there.

If they "aren't difficult" and "not seen as an outright prestige", then they should not be special enough to be carried across, they arent something a live player should pay much attention to.
So there would be no reason for them to be carried across.

See, you keep contradicting yourself.
Constantly presenting a reason why this should not happen.
While telling us it should be.

[JJShadoe]

And by what logic do you tell people who "play on it" and earn mounts which don't exist in Live that they can't use them in Live? Your appeal to your own authority? You are deluding yourself if you think you can stop that, the proverbial can of worms has already been opened. This is only a matter of finding a clean-cut and healthy implementation.

1) by the logic that it's a Classic server, and a totally separate experience from the Live game, which are totally separate, different things
2) by the logic that Classic WoW did not have collection systems, and so will not have collection systems when Classic servers come to be

[Coconut]

1) by the logic that it's a Classic server, and a totally separate experience from the Live game, which are totally separate, different things
2) by the logic that Classic WoW did not have collection systems, and so will not have collection systems when Classic servers come to be

1. They are linked by your Battlenet account and they're both basically the same game using the same engine, just from different time periods. Every one of these mounts still exists in the Live database. If Classic has any exclusive items and mounts, anyone who is interested in Live at all will look at them and want a way to port them over.

2. True, but we now have the luxury (or misfortune) of knowing what's coming down the line in terms of Legacy content, and by late TBC WoW did have a mount tab. At that point it will be reasonable to ask for a Legacy to Live transfer, so collectors might feel obligated to secure these old racial mount in preparation for that - especially if they will only be there temporarily once again. Personally I believe it's healthier for both sides to have a parallel system in place from the beginning and just add them to Live.

[Maxilian]

Now that you mentioned this, this may be the only reason why i would play the Classic server, but i'm not sure if the things you get in the classic server are added to your collection.

[Deleted]

Now that you mentioned this, this may be the only reason why i would play the Classic server, but i'm not sure if the things you get in the classic server are added to your collection.

Getting another chance to add ZG tiger to my collection would also be my only motivation.

It's not like I have been running ZG back then regularly in random groups. I just have seen the mount drop only once, and did not win the roll.

This thing is only rare because they revamped the dungeon and made a new model for the 5 man heroic instead of keeping the ZG tiger in there. This is the only kind of prestige about it. Killing the bos back in ZG was not that difficult, especially not in later expansions when people get there to farm the mount in small groups or even solo when they had the right character and spec.

So, your whole discussion is based on a arbitrary decision by Blizzard. It made more sense to remove the ZA time run reward from the 10 man raid (which I also have completed successfuly multiple times, just not often enough to get the mount), because it was tied to a specific achievement in a specific skill and gear range (just like mage tower challenges now). ZG tiger should have been made available.

[glowpipe]

Getting another chance to add ZG tiger to my collection would also be my only motivation.

It's not like I have been running ZG back then regularly in random groups. I just have seen the mount drop only once, and did not win the roll.

This thing is only rare because they revamped the dungeon and made a new model for the 5 man heroic instead of keeping the ZG tiger in there. This is the only kind of prestige about it. Killing the bos back in ZG was not that difficult, especially not in later expansions when people get there to farm the mount in small groups or even solo when they had the right character and spec.

So, your whole discussion is based on a arbitrary decision by Blizzard. It made more sense to remove the ZA time run reward from the 10 man raid (which I also have completed successfuly multiple times, just not often enough to get the mount), because it was tied to a specific achievement in a specific skill and gear range (just like mage tower challenges now). ZG tiger should have been made available.

And why should you get another attempt ? I got 1 of the two mounts. I farmed my ass off. I put in a ton of effort. Now people who didn't give one shit about should get another shot ? No. You had your chance and blew it.

[mrgibb]

Getting another chance to add ZG tiger to my collection would also be my only motivation.

It's not like I have been running ZG back then regularly in random groups. I just have seen the mount drop only once, and did not win the roll.

This thing is only rare because they revamped the dungeon and made a new model for the 5 man heroic instead of keeping the ZG tiger in there. This is the only kind of prestige about it. Killing the bos back in ZG was not that difficult, especially not in later expansions when people get there to farm the mount in small groups or even solo when they had the right character and spec.

So, your whole discussion is based on a arbitrary decision by Blizzard. It made more sense to remove the ZA time run reward from the 10 man raid (which I also have completed successfuly multiple times, just not often enough to get the mount), because it was tied to a specific achievement in a specific skill and gear range (just like mage tower challenges now). ZG tiger should have been made available.

I have both the real Zul'Aman bear and the tiger from Zul'Gurub.

Why should you get another chance to get those mounts, if you get them i won't feel as special as i do now!!!!


Seriously, who the fuck cares its just pixels.

But Blizzard would really fuck up BMAH if they connected the noob-realms with the live-realms.

Sent from my F8331 with Tapatalk

[Deleted]

And why should you get another attempt ? I got 1 of the two mounts. I farmed my ass off. I put in a ton of effort. Now people who didn't give one shit about should get another shot ? No. You had your chance and blew it.

So I am to blame that I had other things to do in my life and in the game? And that the droprate is that bad, that even farming every lockout after the announcement that the raid will be removed, will not have guaranteed me getting the thing?

They arbitrarily remove things, and leave other things be in the game. I still did not get Invincible after putting multiple hundreds of attempts into getting it. You can work your ass off and with bad luck, never see the mount drop. And with bad rolls, you see but you don't get it.

And then people like you do their disgusting "lazy" argument. Stop it. You are wrong. This has nothing to do with lazyness, but pure luck.

Edit: I farmed Baron Rivendares Mount. I farmed Anzu. I farmed the White Hawkstrider back then at level 70 while hunting for the equally elusive phoenix pet. I farmed Ashes of Al'ar, all dragons from Cata (except the rare in Deepholme) and many more mounts. Don't you dare call me lazy!

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I have both the real Zul'Aman bear and the tiger from Zul'Gurub.

Why should you get another chance to get those mounts, if you get them i won't feel as special as i do now!!!!


Seriously, who the fuck cares its just pixels.

But Blizzard would really fuck up BMAH if they connected the noob-realms with the live-realms.

Sent from my F8331 with Tapatalk

I have not seen a ZG tiger on the BMAH for ages. So much for that.

[Totle]

Why do people think classic and live are going to be connected in any way aside from possibly your live subscription granting you access to the classic server?

Pretty comical how you claim people who want some exclusivity are "edgy" though. 10/10 that'll surely get people to take you seriously.

What if you had one way transfers? Like you make a character on a classic server, gather the mounts/transmogs, and then server transfer them to the modern servers?

[Planetdune]

I said this lots of times, YES. Playing on classic should bring rewards for Live. NOT the other way around. Mounts pets, toys, tmogs anything goes that can be unlocked Bnet wide. Again, one way.. so there is no tmog system on classic.

It would be the only reason I would play Classic. You may tell me those are "bad motivations" but they are what they are. And I am sure Blizz is well aware of this. They can easily defend this by saying it does not alter classic in any way. Only adds extra potential motivation to play classic which is what they want. It is a win win except for those who think being a special snowflake is special.

[Deleted]

I said this lots of times, YES. Playing on classic should bring rewards for Live. NOT the other way around. Mounts pets, toys, tmogs anything goes that can be unlocked Bnet wide. Again, one way.. so there is no tmog system on classic.

It would be the only reason I would play Classic. You may tell me those are "bad motivations" but they are what they are. And I am sure Blizz is well aware of this. They can easily defend this by saying it does not alter classic in any way. Only adds extra potential motivation to play classic which is what they want. It is a win win except for those who think being a special snowflake is special.

Also, what negative sides would be there for the classic players who are not into collecting? They would get additional people to play with, this should be the most important thing to them. Are they afraid that some collector would ninjaloot their items or what?