"go play retail then" is getting old

[Torrasque]

I think that it's funny how much people complain about grinds in the retail game, but people that want vanilla want grinds exclusively to grind and use how much time they grind as some sort of "skill" determining factor. "Skill" at grinding, that's a joke, right? I mean, if they are truly serious, then I simply don't understand the hype for meaningless grinds.

[Deleted]

Aaaand built in QuestHelper is going to alleviate this problem how?

I'm talking about the "Stuck on a Quest"-type support ticket (when a quest item gets deleted from your bag, or is not correctly flagged).
And any other ticket that is submitted to CS through the '?'-help menu.

Submitting any kind of help ticket works very differently now. WoW doesn't have GM's anymore. The vanilla team will have to do some integration work to get the old code updated.

[Deleted]

I think that it's funny how much people complain about grinds in the retail game, but people that want vanilla want grinds exclusively to grind and use how much time they grind as some sort of "skill" determining factor. "Skill" at grinding, that's a joke, right? I mean, if they are truly serious, then I simply don't understand the hype for meaningless grinds.

Mmo games are about grind. If i would like to play game what is only about skill i would play Legue of Legends not rpg game.

[Deleted]

What do you mean it doesn't have GMs at all anymore? O_o
How does the support work then?

It's a standard call-center setup these days. They're just helpdesk clerks.
They don't log on to servers anymore like they used to. Everything is done centrally.

[Jehct]

It's WoW Classic. Therefore it's presumed that what you want is CLASSIC. That means without LFD, without transmog, without new models, without aoe looting, without dual spec. That's the whole point.

Well REAL classic/vanilla was buggy, laggy, and certain classes were OP. Thats the true version of classic and the one I enjoyed the most. If you don't like bugs and lag. You don't like the pure form of classic.

[Deleted]

Well. Now I see what you mean by the need in automation. Haven't played the game in a long time, had no clue about this change. Hard to imagine WoW without GMs really. At the start I though you were talking about the reduced amount of them, not complete removal of this type of support. Then you might have merit in what you're saying. However, I hope it's not going to be implemented as hand holding but rather some "unstuck me" or "reset quest" buttons, or whatever. No idea how it's handled nowadays.
Though I still stand that 2h long loot exchange feature within the raid group would be a bad idea (which I guess was introduced because there are no more GMs to sort it out), it leads to rather unpleasant behavior from certain type of players.

When it happened anyway? When did they remove the GM support?

2012 when they got rid of 600 people. Most were GM's who were let go and replaced by automation.
Many of the support functions are just buttons in the help UI (like unstuck) they changed quests and quest items so you don't have to carry that many breadcrumb items in your inventory anymore (so they can't get lost) - and some functions are implemented through Battle.net pages (like deleted item restore). They've made it really hard to put in tickets (many of the old categories that would open a ticket now just send you to wowhead and other 3rd party sites).
They can still whisper you and talk to you in-game, but that comes from their support software and not by logging on to the game server.

[rewhaha]

2012 when they got rid of 600 people. Most were GM's who were let go and replaced by automation.
Many of the support functions are just buttons in the help UI (like unstuck) they changed quests and quest items so you don't have to carry that many breadcrumb items in your inventory anymore (so they can't get lost) - and some functions are implemented through Battle.net pages (like deleted item restore). They've made it really hard to put in tickets (many of the old categories that would open a ticket now just send you to wowhead and other 3rd party sites).
They can still whisper you and talk to you in-game, but that comes from their support software and not by logging on to the game server.

yeah situations like deleting a quest but not the item, and then not being able to accept the quest again because you still have the item, which was unique so you can't carry more than one. And its sitting in a bank bag because it has the same icon as wool cloth or some nonsense. The game was rife with crap like that

[Djanco]

Exactly. The people who actually fought, scratched and clawed for this want the original classic WoW experience. Not 'kinda like classic, but with modern bits too!'

you mean the people who bitched and moaned in trade chat while still maintaining a subscription to live? the people who complain the game is too ez, only level, do lfr and never set foot inside a mythic raid?

[Phlegethon]

This will kick you in the butt as soon as first changes for classic will be revealed. But hey, at least you can stay play on private server

I have played vanilla, back when it was current.
There's not a chance in hell I'll go back to that.

[rewhaha]

I have played vanilla, back when it was current.
There's not a chance in hell I'll go back to that.

yeah it's as if people are saying "i want massive time sinks and inconveniences"

[diarx]

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game

After classic was announced I actually went out and rolled my first private server character, got to 60, and so far have had more fun getting there in WoW than I've had in live for a very long time.

I've found (on rogue at least) AOE looting isn't particularly needed, you can get by fine without it. Unless you're a mage, lock or hunter you probably won't be killing mobs fast enough like the utter faceroll that is live to require AOE loot anyway. Seriously, my arms warrior on live has scrub WQ gear and can solo like 20 pvp tower world quest mobs at once. If you did that solo on nilla you'd be dead in 2 seconds flat.

Tbh loot-a-rang would actually be more convenient to me but I don't even really want that because changes tend to snowball and get larger in scope. Shift auto loot would also I guess be okay, but once you get back into the habit shift looting is second nature and not needed unless you've carpal tunnel effecting your left pinky.

As for dual spec or even lessening talent reset costs, yes I think this is game breaking. Nilla and talents were about tough choices. Take the tough choices away and you have people infinitely respeccing and less chance for the smart and very committed players to stand out.

[Phlegethon]

yeah it's as if people are saying "i want massive time sinks and inconveniences"

I don't get that either.

- - - Updated - - -

After classic was announced I actually went out and rolled my first private server character, got to 60, and so far have had more fun getting there in WoW than I've had in live for a very long time.

I've found (on rogue at least) AOE looting isn't particularly needed, you can get by fine without it. Unless you're a mage, lock or hunter you probably won't be killing mobs fast enough like the utter faceroll that is live to require AOE loot anyway. Seriously, my arms warrior on live has scrub WQ gear and can solo like 20 pvp tower world quest mobs at once. If you did that solo on nilla you'd be dead in 2 seconds flat.

Tbh loot-a-rang would actually be more convenient to me but I don't even really want that because changes tend to snowball and get larger in scope. Shift auto loot would also I guess be okay, but once you get back into the habit shift looting is second nature and not needed unless you've carpal tunnel effecting your left pinky.

As for dual spec or even lessening talent reset costs, yes I think this is game breaking. Nilla and talents were about tough choices. Take the tough choices away and you have people infinitely respeccing and less chance for the smart and very committed players to stand out.

Chances are, the private server doesn't actually run a vanilla server :-)

[Racthoh]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

dual spec actually would break the game... are you kidding

[tankbug]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

I'm sure they'll fix bugs, but I don't see any reason to implement gameplay improvements to the game. The flaws of vanilla is a feature, not something they should fix. Why should they make players' lives easier on classic servers? It's about strolling down memory lane for a while, getting the authentic experience. Technical errors is the only thing they should focus on IMO.

[Hottage]

Original beta or bust then

FilePlanet Founder's Club invite-only alpha Stress Test (from circa March 2004) or bust.

I want my classic experience back!

[rewhaha]

dual spec actually would break the game... are you kidding

hardly. please explain

[Mormolyce]

People should just stop making those mistakes - in most games you just have to deal with such things without getting items restored.

To be honest, it's Blizzard's fault for never really coming up with a decent loot system.

[Deleted]

I have played vanilla, back when it was current.
There's not a chance in hell I'll go back to that.

There is only 1 thing that would make me play Classic: getting a ZG tiger for my collection on live.
Then I would make me a dwarf priest (fear ward!), powerlevel as shadow with gatherer professions (or herbs+alchemy to be able to craft potions later in the game), and then switch to holy to run dungeons and get into ZG runs. :P

I know that mage leveling would be faster, but I don't look forward to doing the quests for the highest ranks of food and drink anymore.

[mikally]

The whining in here is unbelievable.

Don't delude yourself into thinking Blizzard is going to devote resources they don't have to just to give neckbeards the feeling that they are playing a game from almost 15 years ago. There have been obvious QoL improvements for players and for the developers. Things like having a 2 hour window to trade instanced loot, having an automated item restore system, and lockout adjustments/improvements have all saved precious resources that Blizzard is not willing to re-devote to issues they have fixed.

So prepare yourself now for a slightly altered vanilla experience and save yourself the disappointment later because it's not going to change. A lot of the core mechanics of the game will still be exactly the same. If you pull 2 mobs you'll still die. There will still only be one viable spec for each class. The important stuff is going to be the same. The stuff that vastly improves QoL and saves developer resources is going to be making it into classic retail.

Are you going to be this upset when Blizzard fixes major game breaking bugs that you think should have stayed because you have nostalgia from almost 15 years ago? I'm not exactly sure what people expect. Is the expectation really that Blizzard will release something they know is inferior by design and will cause problems/player frustration later? How do you think ATVI shareholders would feel when they hear about Blizzard deliberately causing future problems for themselves that they will have to spend resources on and thus affecting the bottom line?

Classic is still going to be awesome. If something as simple as allowing items to be traded within two hours for eligible players will ruin this vanilla experience for you then it's not really the game you love, its feeling like your 15 years in the past. I honestly don't believe Blizzard is going to try to cater to players looking for a one off experience of nostalgia.

The game breaking bugs are neat when they haven't happened to you in nearly 15 years. When you're sitting in Wailing Caverns for the third time in a row and the RP event breaks down again and you still can't wake up Naralex to complete the dungeon/quests you won't be quite as excited that no improvements were made. If Classic WoW is to be a sustainable source of income for Blizzard/ATVI (it is, don't trick yourself into believing this was just for the feels) then there are improvements that have been made and need to be added to classic retail. The game at it's core will need to feel like it did 14 years ago. If game is super frustrating for no reason (nostalgia is basically no reason after the first time) players are going to quit.

Tl;dr Blizzard is not going to intentionally handicap their product resulting in poor player experience and frustration. Blizzard most certainly will not volunteer to leave in bugs/systems that would inevitably require resources that could other wise be devoted to furthering Blizzard/ATVI's bottom line merely for near 15 year old nostalgia. It is delusional to think otherwise.

[Phlegethon]

There is only 1 thing that would make me play Classic: getting a ZG tiger for my collection on live.
Then I would make me a dwarf priest (fear ward!), powerlevel as shadow with gatherer professions (or herbs+alchemy to be able to craft potions later in the game), and then switch to holy to run dungeons and get into ZG runs. :P

I know that mage leveling would be faster, but I don't look forward to doing the quests for the highest ranks of food and drink anymore.

Lol, powerlevel in classic x-) You're funny ;-)
I would think they are separated, no? I mean, mixing classic and live is a big nono...