[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Deleted]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ53ugSWAAEdWfu.jpg

UK trade w/ EU is not sustainable. we need a hard Brexit (preferably no deal) to reorganise our economy.

Yeah, Everyone knows that the best way to get over your alcoholism is to go to prison for a few years, totally man.

[Slant]

"We" refers to the French, correct?

You're forgetting, he's still trolling the forum and doesn't actually have an opinion other than yanking your chain.

[Tinch]

Talking about the economics in previous post it was purely meant to be on the economics level of things. No EU country is more to the right of us on that level. Socially yeah Hungary, Polands and few others are bordering on far right. But economics level the UK has the most rightist laws.

What measures in particular are you basing this on? Even based on the economy I'd say the UK is not the most far right.

[Floopa]

You're forgetting, he's still trolling the forum and doesn't actually have an opinion other than yanking your chain.

my opinion is that leaving the eu is best for the UK in the long term. eu goals do not align with UK goals, and a lot of the PLP's socialist policies do not work/cannot operate under eu law/regulation, so we need to leave.

[Noradin]

my opinion is that leaving the eu is best for the UK in the long term. eu goals do not align with UK goals, and a lot of the PLP's socialist policies do not work/cannot operate under eu law/regulation, so we need to leave.

leave the UK for France?
Why not replace FPTP instead and try to save your own democracy instead?

[Vankrys]

my opinion is that leaving the eu is best for the UK in the long term. eu goals do not align with UK goals, and a lot of the PLP's socialist policies do not work/cannot operate under eu law/regulation, so we need to leave.

fair enough.

are you also one of those who believe the EU is a sinking ship, or just as you say, a matter or irreconcilable differences?

[Floopa]

fair enough.

are you also one of those who believe the EU is a sinking ship, or just as you say, a matter or irreconcilable differences?

just differences in opinion, that's all. i don't think the UK is strong enough to get the eu to change, and so we need to leave as a result.

i think our economy will be better off because of it, i think our welfare systems and our public services will be better off because of it.

[Kiri]

just differences in opinion, that's all. i don't think the UK is strong enough to get the eu to change, and so we need to leave as a result.

i think our economy will be better off because of it, i think our welfare systems and our public services will be better off because of it.

Eventually, maybe. I actually do agree that a separation might be best for both parties - but it has to be done correctly. A more gradual exit would have been the best option in my opinion, as right now there are too many issues being discussed at once. Don't get me wrong, they do need to be discussed before the exit, but setting such a short time frame for such a complex issue was a mistake. There are better options than a no deal scenario for all parties involved, but that is where, on both sides, there is an interest to be hardliners due to domestic pressure. I mean I look at some British news sources, and they seem to think of the respective other side as mortal enemies, which is just stupid. Both sides want what they think is best for the country, but instead of working together for that, they fling poo at one another.

[Floopa]

The thing is, the British public has not shown an interest to return to such public policies that are perhaps somewhat inhibited by the Single Market's statutes against protectionism which is altogether moot because such protections are not going to happen anyway by a WTO member that has agreed to keep reducing all duties and tariffs and will depend significantly on TiSA. You have recently voted for Third Way Labour which is neo-liberal lite or for Tories who are clearly neo-liberal.

I am curious, which policies do you think are inhibited by UK membership in the EU?

so John McDonnell (Shadow Chancellor) said his economic policies and nationalisation policies wouldn't be possible under eu regulation (in a discussion to a board of business owners last year) because it would require 'buying back' PFIs at government set rates. in essence, that is being argued as a) theft, and b) planned economy by a government.

it's completely understandable why, therefore, Labour would want to leave the eu - it serves 2 purposes (i think). the first is that it fractures the conservative party, and generates high resentment for the party, and it allows Labour (should they come to power, which i think is very likely maybe even this year or next) to initiate and carry through their social-democratic economic policies.

put it this way, 70% of English NHS contracts that were tendered, were sold to the private sector in 2017 - roughly £3billion of the annual NHS budget (i think estimated £100~billion) is now in private sector hands, if Labour were to come to power they would "buy back" those contracts at whatever rate John McDonnell deems fair/necessary. this would be the same for education, housing, etc.

[Pann]

It seems that Nigel is worried he might be cut off from the EU gravy train; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

[Slant]

my opinion is that leaving the eu is best for the UK in the long term. eu goals do not align with UK goals, and a lot of the PLP's socialist policies do not work/cannot operate under eu law/regulation, so we need to leave.

You explicitely confirmed before that you're just pretending to have these opinions and that you're just here to get a rise out of people. I wonder if you think our memory is defective in some way. You're a dishonest poster and don't deserve to have your invalid points addressed until you actually want to discuss this seriously.

[Noradin]

so John McDonnell (Shadow Chancellor) said his economic policies and nationalisation policies wouldn't be possible under eu regulation (in a discussion to a board of business owners last year) because it would require 'buying back' PFIs at government set rates. in essence, that is being argued as a) theft, and b) planned economy by a government.

it's completely understandable why, therefore, Labour would want to leave the eu - it serves 2 purposes (i think). the first is that it fractures the conservative party, and generates high resentment for the party, and it allows Labour (should they come to power, which i think is very likely maybe even this year or next) to initiate and carry through their social-democratic economic policies.

put it this way, 70% of English NHS contracts that were tendered, were sold to the private sector in 2017 - roughly £3billion of the annual NHS budget (i think estimated £100~billion) is now in private sector hands, if Labour were to come to power they would "buy back" those contracts at whatever rate John McDonnell deems fair/necessary. this would be the same for education, housing, etc.

Yes, that kind of behaviour is generally frowned upon by institutions that uphold the rule of law.
Stealing back what the government squandered before to appease voters is basically a form fraud.
If they want them back they need to pay market prices. If the government doesn't uphold the law why should private citizens do it?
Wasn't that what the Magna Carta was all about? Protection of the rights and possessions of the populace from overreach of the government?

What would you call it if someone sold you a home, you made plans, invested in it, and maybe got your friends involved and then one who sold it to you took it back from you for a price they set unilaterally? That is at least theft, and since the police is part of the state, in their case it would be robbery due to the threat of force if you do not comply.

[Floopa]

You explicitely confirmed before that you're just pretending to have these opinions and that you're just here to get a rise out of people. I wonder if you think our memory is defective in some way. You're a dishonest poster and don't deserve to have your invalid points addressed until you actually want to discuss this seriously.

the serious discussion of Brexit is: it's happening, get over it. is Brexit bad for Britain? no i don't think it is, mostly because what i hope Britain becomes requires Britain leaving the eu.

Yes, that kind of behaviour is generally frowned upon by institutions that uphold the rule of law.
Stealing back what the government squandered before to appease voters is basically a form fraud.
If they want them back they need to pay market prices. If the government doesn't uphold the law why should private citizens do it?
Wasn't that what the Magna Carta was all about? Protection of the rights and possessions of the populace from overreach of the government?

What would you call it if someone sold you a home, you made plans, invested in it, and maybe got your friends involved and then one who sold it to you took it back from you for a price they set unilaterally? That is at least theft, and since the police is part of the state, in their case it would be robbery due to the threat of force if you do not comply.

right, you think that's wrong and you're probably right. personally i think private companies who make money off of public services via monopolies, and suffer no risk because of govt subsidy deserve to have the rug pulled under their feet. at any rate, the policies set forth by the PLP are not possible unless the PFIs can be bought by the govt (at bargain basement prices) - this requires leaving the eu.

[Pann]

Hmm... curiouser and curiouser!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...banks-11835287

[Mayhem]

You explicitely confirmed before that you're just pretending to have these opinions and that you're just here to get a rise out of people. I wonder if you think our memory is defective in some way. You're a dishonest poster and don't deserve to have your invalid points addressed until you actually want to discuss this seriously.

He did? Did i miss that one?

[Floopa]

Wait . . . you think Corbyn is Chavez? You want to try the Venezuela model?

no of course not, i would like to see nationalisation of services which are currently held as private monopolies: rail, gas, electricity, water. i would like to see any and all privatisation of the NHS stripped away completely, once again returning the NHS to the public sector and i would like to see proper measures put in place to stop tax avoidance.

[Slant]

He did? Did i miss that one?

I think he did? One of the lunatics did anyway. It's hard to keep them apart, to be honest. I may be mistaken.

[Mayhem]

I think he did? One of the lunatics did anyway. It's hard to keep them apart, to be honest. I may be mistaken.

No i think you're confusing them, some other guy with just about 1000 posts or so did admit to c/p stuff from a leave forum to this thread, but that one left after admitting to trolling. The guys who asked to adress his points though are still around. ^^

[Slant]

No i think you're confusing them, some other guy with just about 1000 posts or so did admit to c/p stuff from a leave forum to this thread, but that one left after admitting to trolling. The guys who asked to adress his points though are still around. ^^

Oooh, my bad then. @Floopa, I apologize for the false accusation.

You're still not presenting posts that I could take seriously. Sorry.

[Mayhem]

I do think it is far more salient to engage Floopa than Dribbles though. His talking points, those of the conservative Brexit voter have been deconstructed ad nauseam in this thread. Floopa's point on how the EU is stopping a potential socialist Labour government from nationalizing several privatized entities by seizing existing tenders through buyback at arbitrary prices is fairly different.

Yeah, it's trying to revert the fuck-ups of a former government by means of fuck-up.