Thalyssra's spot on reason for why the Nightborne are joining the Horde.

[Jakerel]

Having seen the Suramar story in its fullest, I can completely understand the Nightborne's decision to join the Horde.

Tyrande's lines towards them, and about them is pure spite. I can understand her distrust in them to begin with, but over the course of the insurrection story line, there were many points where the Nightborne proved which side they were on, and were always very forward about their overall end goal after the fall of Elisande. This was the place of her birth for crying out loud! I know over time the Night Elves have shifted away and become their own entity entirely, but to forget ones heritage, is to forget ones sense of self.

And the stuff she says during the Post Notice WQ is just despicable IMO.

[Joti]

Fanboy love aside, does nobody else think it underhanded for the Nightborne to be choosing sides after the events of Legion? Horde and Alliance both helped liberate Suramar. So after they watch both of these factions sacrifice to help them in their time of need, they turn around and choose to enter into a conflict against one of them?

Granted it wasn't a purely magnanimous sacrifice, the Legion threatened all and liberating these people from the Legion ensured our own survival, but to spill the blood of people still bearing fresh wounds earned helping to save you is as treacherous as it gets. It just seems like they made a gameplay decision made without putting any thought into the lore that they established.

You could probably apply the same mentality to most of the other allied races but I'm unsure, lorewise, who the principal parties are supposed to be helping Highmountain, LF Dranei, etc. The Suramar questline definitively shows both Alliance and Horde forces fighting to retake the city.

[Aeula]

They made the smart choice considering what the Alliance did to their Night Elven cousins.

[Hitei]

First Arcanist Thaylyssra: "I can see that the Horde has allowed you to uphold your traditions--something that is very important to us. We gain strength from our allies... but we have not lost who we are."

It makes perfect sense. In the alliance, every race is accepting, but they all have to conform to human standards. In the Horde, everyone and anyone can climb up the ranks and shine.

Ah, yes. I forgot that Darnassus is filled with human architecture and took on a human power structure.

Fanboy love aside, does nobody else think it underhanded for the Nightborne to be choosing sides after the events of Legion? Horde and Alliance both helped liberate Suramar. So after they watch both of these factions sacrifice to help them in their time of need, they turn around and choose to enter into a conflict against one of them?

Granted it wasn't a purely magnanimous sacrifice, the Legion threatened all and liberating these people from the Legion ensured our own survival, but to spill the blood of people still bearing fresh wounds earned helping to save you is as treacherous as it gets. It just seems like they made a gameplay decision made without putting any thought into the lore that they established.

You could probably apply the same mentality to most of the other allied races but I'm unsure, lorewise, who the principal parties are supposed to be helping Highmountain, LF Dranei, etc. The Suramar questline definitively shows both Alliance and Horde forces fighting to retake the city.

Yes. The Nightfallen aligned Nightborne should have never picked a side. There is zero reason for them to, and their primary concern right now should be rebuilding their society and dealing with internal issues, not haphazardly picking a faction out of two that helped them in a climate full of tension likely to escalate.

It was so dumb, because all they had to do was make the Horde Nightborne the remnants of Elisande's Duskwatch forces. Those are the actually Horde-like Nightborne, the outcasts and likely exiles who need a new home, who are ambitious and keen enough on survival to follow someone like Sylvanas (who is extremely similar to Elisande, to the point that it's insane Thalyssra would pledge her people to a faction led by someone like that), and who are a little more vicious and willing to get their hands dirty.

I really don't understand why Blizzard didn't go that route when helping the Nightfallen was such a big part of the expansion equally for both factions.

[FelPlague]

First Arcanist Thaylyssra: "I can see that the Horde has allowed you to uphold your traditions--something that is very important to us. We gain strength from our allies... but we have not lost who we are."

It makes perfect sense. In the alliance, every race is accepting, but they all have to conform to human standards. In the Horde, everyone and anyone can climb up the ranks and shine.

correct
the horde you can do whatever the fuck you want
sylvanas has proven this
but in the alliance they accept any and all
but they must conform to human law and rights.

[Khirok]

Blizzard's writing for the Alliance is often really bad and homogenizing, which nobody is asking for. News at 11

[Hitei]

correct
the horde you can do whatever the fuck you want
sylvanas has proven this
but in the alliance they accept any and all
but they must conform to human law and rights.

I would love to know where you are getting this from. Because last time I checked, after the wrathgate Sylvanas' people were put under direct watch by the Kor'kron, and Garrosh was able to outright forbid her from using certain tactics. . The Night Elves didn't even need to pass letting the Highborne join by the humans. Nor do they even remotely follow the same systems or rights. Nor do the Dwarves, who also have their own system going, or the Draenei, who have their own unique system and laws.

You are just making shit up.

[Volitar]

haha Alliance sucks guys amiright

haha Horde sucks guys amiright

[MatadorMedia]

...the original Alliance built by King Terenas worked as this Alliance of today does, with everyone from the different sattelites surrounding the king, who is the big cheese.

Hmm. Anduin Lothar was the Supreme Commander of the Alliance of Lordaeron because none of the ally leaders trusted the other leaders to be in charge. Lothar was human but he was not royalty.

[Kithelle]

Fanboy love aside, does nobody else think it underhanded for the Nightborne to be choosing sides after the events of Legion? Horde and Alliance both helped liberate Suramar. So after they watch both of these factions sacrifice to help them in their time of need, they turn around and choose to enter into a conflict against one of them?

Granted it wasn't a purely magnanimous sacrifice, the Legion threatened all and liberating these people from the Legion ensured our own survival, but to spill the blood of people still bearing fresh wounds earned helping to save you is as treacherous as it gets. It just seems like they made a gameplay decision made without putting any thought into the lore that they established.

You could probably apply the same mentality to most of the other allied races but I'm unsure, lorewise, who the principal parties are supposed to be helping Highmountain, LF Dranei, etc. The Suramar questline definitively shows both Alliance and Horde forces fighting to retake the city.

It's shitty writing just to pigeonhole them into a faction, plain and simple. Just like Void Elves have a shitty moronic back story...

[Better]

Yes. The Nightfallen aligned Nightborne should have never picked a side. There is zero reason for them to, and their primary concern right now should be rebuilding their society and dealing with internal issues, not haphazardly picking a faction out of two that helped them in a climate full of tension likely to escalate.

It was so dumb, because all they had to do was make the Horde Nightborne the remnants of Elisande's Duskwatch forces. Those are the actually Horde-like Nightborne, the outcasts and likely exiles who need a new home, who are ambitious and keen enough on survival to follow someone like Sylvanas (who is extremely similar to Elisande, to the point that it's insane Thalyssra would pledge her people to a faction led by someone like that), and who are a little more vicious and willing to get their hands dirty.

I really don't understand why Blizzard didn't go that route when helping the Nightfallen was such a big part of the expansion equally for both factions.

It's very strange to me that Alliance players say this kind of thing for Nightborne, but then never actually point out that Highmountain Tauren, and Lightforged Draenei also make very little sense lorewise to join a faction. The Highmountain Tauren literally only join the Horde because they're Tauren. They PLANNED a storyline with Baine actually doing stuff around Highmountain, which would also make it make more sense as well as give Baine something to do (Tauren lore never ever).

[Rhlor]

Addicts and trecherous backstabbers have indeed very much in common among themselves

They fits the horde perfectly

Are you talking about the void elves?

[The Anax]

Hmm. Anduin Lothar was the Supreme Commander of the Alliance of Lordaeron because none of the ally leaders trusted the other leaders to be in charge. Lothar was human but he was not royalty.

Terenas was the king. Lothar might have been a miitary leader, but he was not the one in charge of the Alliance. I specifically remember winning as Horde, and it is kind Terenas in his throne we kill. Even then, in the Lore, Doomhammer kills Lothar and the Alliance is still going, all the way until the Horde besieges what is now Undercity. The Gul'dan happens, and we pull back, and the Alliance goes on to the Dark Portal. Lothar was no more the leader of the Alliance than Turalyon or Alleria or Danath or Khadgar... you get the idea.

EDIT: I should add this continued onwards. Do you not recall when Medivh went to Terenas? The other Alliance nations are sitting around the throne room with Terenas in charge. The king's been in charge of ye olde Alliance for as long as there has been one.

[Joti]

It's very strange to me that Alliance players say this kind of thing for Nightborne, but then never actually point out that Highmountain Tauren, and Lightforged Draenei also make very little sense lorewise to join a faction. The Highmountain Tauren literally only join the Horde because they're Tauren. They PLANNED a storyline with Baine actually doing stuff around Highmountain, which would also make it make more sense as well as give Baine something to do (Tauren lore never ever).

I actually did reference the HM Tauren and LF Dranei in my post, but as I said, it's far less clear what the interaction is between these factions and our factions. So often from a lore perspective these things are written with vague "adventurers" that represent our characters but it leaves the story a little open-ended to represent that it's our story from our perspective.

There is absolutely no vagueness about the Suramar questline. It definitively ends with both Horde and Alliance forces teaming up with Thalyssra's Nightborne to liberate Suramar in the same assault.

[Hitei]

It's very strange to me that Alliance players say this kind of thing for Nightborne, but then never actually point out that Highmountain Tauren, and Lightforged Draenei also make very little sense lorewise to join a faction. The Highmountain Tauren literally only join the Horde because they're Tauren. They PLANNED a storyline with Baine actually doing stuff around Highmountain, which would also make it make more sense as well as give Baine something to do (Tauren lore never ever).

The HMT and LFD are also weird, but at least they have obvious reasons for joining their respective factions.

Sure, it's "only" because their Tauren, but that is huge. They are joining a faction with their own people, and a faction with a very similar cultural background (tribal, honor, traditional, etc.)--By the way, before anyone makes a comment about Blood Elves and the Nightborne, the closest culturally and social group to the Nightborne is 100% uncontested the Highborne who are also part of the Alliance. They are the same people but from two different cities, with very similar cultures and the same ancient magic as a foundational core.

The LF are led by an Alliance hero who is married to an Alliance hero who hates the Horde, and the two of them have an Alliance son. They were formerly led by Velen, and immediately go back to reporting to him on Argus, and Velen is also a hero whose people are on the Alliance. I also can't imagine the LF were too happy upon hearing that the Draenei who escaped the Legion were then later massacred almost to extinction by the Orcs after getting durnk on demon blood in a bid for power.

So at least those two are "Yeah, okay. I guess that makes sense."

[Clone]

Addicts and trecherous backstabbers have indeed very much in common among themselves

They fits the horde perfectly

Addicted to winning.

[Vasaru]

talking about taking the bait...

Just ignore him. He's a loser and a cunt.

[Schattenlied]

but they all have to conform to human standards.

... Since fucking when?

The Night Elves still uphold their traditions.

The Dwarves still uphold their traditions.

The Gnomes still uphold their traditions.

The Draenei still uphold what is left of theirs after running from the Legion for thousands of years.

The Pandaren still uphold their traditions.

[Better]

The HMT and LFD are also weird, but at least they have obvious reasons for joining their respective factions.

Sure, it's "only" because their Tauren, but that is huge. They are joining a faction with their own people, and a faction with a very similar cultural background (tribal, honor, traditional, etc.)--By the way, before anyone makes a comment about Blood Elves and the Nightborne, the closest culturally and social group to the Nightborne is 100% uncontested the Highborne who are also part of the Alliance. They are the same people but from two different cities, with very similar cultures and the same ancient magic as a foundational core.

The LF are led by an Alliance hero who is married to an Alliance hero who hates the Horde, and the two of them have an Alliance son. They were formerly led by Velen, and immediately go back to reporting to him on Argus, and Velen is also a hero whose people are on the Alliance. I also can't imagine the LF were too happy upon hearing that the Draenei who escaped the Legion were then later massacred almost to extinction by the Orcs after getting durnk on demon blood in a bid for power.

So at least those two are "Yeah, okay. I guess that makes sense."

Ok, so let's analyse this. "The closest culturally and social group to the Nightborne is 100% uncontested the Highborne who are also part of the Alliance."
Highborne rejoining the Alliance happened basically in spirit only. They function identically to a normal Night Elf. There is no special Highborne Alliance areas, and they're never even relevant. It was done just so Night elf mages could be a thing. Blood Elf civilization (Reminder, they were largely the actual, thematic Highborne that build large intricate elven cities, and not just trees) much more closely resembles that of the Nightborne by far. Their cultures are both that of luxury, and nobility. Contrasted with the Night Elves' (Because again, Highborne Night Elves theoretically exist in the lore, but aren't really notable at all) more Druidic culture.

[FelPlague]

I would love to know where you are getting this from. Because last time I checked, after the wrathgate Sylvanas' people were put under direct watch by the Kor'kron, and Garrosh was able to outright forbid her from using certain tactics. . The Night Elves didn't even need to pass letting the Highborne join by the humans. Nor do they even remotely follow the same systems or rights. Nor do the Dwarves, who also have their own system going, or the Draenei, who have their own unique system and laws.

You are just making shit up.

you mean when garrosh told her NOT TO USE THE PLAGUE and forbid it.
but she still used it anyways, behind his back?


oh misunderstood, leavbing that there anyways but.

Garrosh was watching sylvanas as he did not trust her, also he is not thel eader right now. But mostly the horde can do whatever they want in their own cities and the warcheif wont care.
The alliance has very much its own system that must be followed.
And well stormwind and the humans will allways lead, unlike theh orde that changes