Nightborne reasons are ridiculous.

[Mehrunes]

Speaking of context, how's this one for you: the elves who shielded Suramar to keep the Legion away from the nightwell are the same elves who lowered their shield, gave the nightwell to Gul'dan and sided with the Legion. So, yeah, why should we trust them at face value not to repeat that same error, again?

They weren't the same Elves Tyrande was speaking to. Because the Elves she was speaking to not only were in open rebellion against Elisande, they already tried an insurrection once, before the lowering of the gates, in order to prevent that. Which almost cost the very Elf Tyrande was talking to specifically her life. So it's kinda hard not to trust someone not to repeat the same mistake again when they haven't made it the first time yet. You're godawful at context.

[Fuze]

Like seriously tyrande was in no way cautious, she was full blown hostile. I think she would've started shooting shit at them if it wasn't for the Legion's threat lol

[Ielenia]

Except the Nightfallen already started an insurrection. They were equivalent to Tyrande's group of Night Elves during WotA, not Azshara. So the accusation is misplaced as hell.

Not really. The same elves who fought the Legion to protect the nightwell then erected that shield to keep the Legion away from their source of power are the same one who, ten thousand years later, sided with the Legion.

And Suramar was left to die too. After they saved the war effort by preventing another massive protal. That's why they erected the shield in the first place. Tyrande is throwing rocks in glass houses.

Suramar wasn't left to die. It was the other way around. The elves erected that shield because they thought that way their civilization would be safe while everyone else fought for survival.

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They weren't the same Elves Tyrande was speaking to.

You completely missed the point, then. I'm not talking about individuals. And you seem to have completely missed the point of Tyrande's wariness toward the nightborne. Elisande also started with good intentions, shielding her people from the rest of the world, but then joined the Legion later. What Tyrande was asking is how do we know Thalyssra won't follow in the same footsteps? She seems to have good intentions now, but what about the future? How do we know she won't pull an "Elisande" and ally themselves with the next big threat that comes to consume Azeroth?

[Lollis]

While the exact reasons being touted are a little, shall we say; off, even as an Alliance player I think joining the Horde is a perfectly reasonable thing to do critically because of the partnership with the Blood Elves.

The Nightborne, despite claiming otherwise, are still very much addicted to the Nightwell, It is nonsensical to believe that they have been completely cured simply because of some fruit. It makes perfect sense for them to ally with the Blood Elves as they have coped with a very similar situation. The Nightborne can look towards the Sindorei and see how they have managed to channel their addiction into something beneficial to their race.

Even if you discount the whole Tyrande issue; with their shared struggles the Nightborne seem a perfect companion for the Blood Elves much as Gnomes are coupled with Dwarves.

[Queen of Hamsters]

While somewhat of a valid point here, let's be real, you'd say the exact same thing about most garbage piece of WoW's story that was then retconned 10 times into even worse garbage. Which kinda robs the credibility of said point in this case.

Not really no, my post was specific to this topic and the people complaining about the Nightborne choosing sides without knowing more than the story of 1 side.
Your contribution is cute, but as for accuracy and value, 0/0.

[Halyon]

Speaking of context, how's this one for you: the elves who shielded Suramar to keep the Legion away from the nightwell are the same elves who lowered their shield, gave the nightwell to Gul'dan and sided with the Legion. So, yeah, why should we trust them at face value not to repeat that same error, again?

So about the rebellion because those same elves are the ones we killed (and still kill the stragglers) in droves, alongside their leader, Elisande, while working alongside the previously mentioned rebellion...

That rebellion is the one that joins the Horde... Or are you a racist?

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You completely missed the point, then. I'm not talking about individuals. And you seem to have completely missed the point of Tyrande's wariness toward the nightborne. Elisande also started with good intentions, shielding her people from the rest of the world, but then joined the Legion later. What Tyrande was asking is how do we know Thalyssra won't follow in the same footsteps? She seems to have good intentions now, but what about the future? How do we know she won't pull an "Elisande" and ally themselves with the next big threat that comes to consume Azeroth?

'Those elves' ...yeah, individuals.

Dude, the individuals in the rebellion aren't Elisande and her poncy posse. Just like the individuals that were Elisande and her bitches aren't the rebels. They're the same race, different people.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Like seriously tyrande was in no way cautious, she was full blown hostile. I think she would've started shooting shit at them if it wasn't for the Legion's threat lol

Yeah, perhaps a lot of people have only read the conversation? If one just reads the text, it might not seem very hostile but her tone of voice on the other hand... :d

[Friendlyimmolation]

well hey they sided with the legion for a cosy place in the new world order under the legion. speaks alot about them. goes well with horde "values".

Uh you realize those guys are all dead?

[Queen of Hamsters]

well hey they sided with the legion for a cosy place in the new world order under the legion. speaks alot about them. goes well with horde "values".

Except we're getting the Nightborne that fought against their own kind as they disagreed with that very decision, something you'd be aware of if you'd paid attention to the story.

Goes extremely well with Horde values I'd say, fighting against evil and tyranny.

[Hitei]

Like seriously tyrande was in no way cautious, she was full blown hostile. I think she would've started shooting shit at them if it wasn't for the Legion's threat lol

I wasn't aware asking one question and then agreeing to have your soldiers fight and die for someone else was considered "full blown hostile" these days.

Goes extremely well with Horde values I'd say, fighting against evil and tyranny.

Did you mean to type "breeding" instead of "fighting against"?

[Ielenia]

So about the rebellion because those same elves are the ones we killed (and still kill the stragglers) in droves, alongside their leader, Elisande, while working alongside the previously mentioned rebellion...

That rebellion is the one that joins the Horde... Or are you a racist?

You've completely missed the point. Yes, Elisande seems to be doing the right thing right now, but, just like her kin in the past, how do we know she won't leave their newest allies to die, or worse, turn against us and join the next big baddie that comes along?

[Queen of Hamsters]

Did you mean to type "breeding" instead of "fighting against"?

Nope, I didn't.

Last time I checked, the Alliance is not the only faction fighting against threats to this universe.

[Hitei]

Nope, I didn't.

Last time I checked, the Alliance is not the only faction fighting against threats to this universe.

Last time I checked, the Alliance wasn't jeopardizing those fights by making deals with evil powers to subjugate good powers for personal gain.

[Zulkhan]

Hey look, it's those people who hid behind a shield when we needed them and then let the Legion in and worked with them. Hey look, they are addicted magic like what destroyed our old empire. (they were still when they first met each other) I should totally trust those guys. The Nightborne are just delusional if they can't see why the Night Elves would be wary of trusting them immediately.

Nightborne are not even barely as delusional as the Alliance players complaining about Nightborne joining the Horde by just explaining themselves why they weren't going to join the Alliance.

For the same reason we can't state orcs are warmongering blood-thirsty savages because of Garrosh, we can't state the Nightborne are good because of Thalyssra.

Guess what, Tyrande's suspicion regarded Thalyssra first and foremost, voicing the doubt that she could have one day become the next Azshara/Elisande because reasons.

The don't hate them, but don't love them either - they merely tolerate them.

That may be no longer true. Honestly nowdays I've seen nothing suggesting even begrudging tolerance.

Darkspear Trolls have always had far better reasons to despise Humans rather than any Elf and whatever distrust there was between the two races has been probably watered down, kinda like the distrust everyone had towards the Forsaken.

Did you mean to type "breeding" instead of "fighting against"?

The New Horde was built with the very premise to fight for freedom against the evil powers that once enslaved/manipulated/corrupted its people. So yeah, the current Nightborne government fits within the picture pretty well.

You've completely missed the point. Yes, Elisande seems to be doing the right thing right now, but, just like her kin in the past, how do we know she won't leave their newest allies to die, or worse, turn against us and join the next big baddie that comes along?

We don't know it, like we don't know a shit ton of other things about the future. If Night Elves are incapable to trust Thalyssra's government and direction in spite of all she has done for her people then the bitching about Nightborne joining the Horde should stop. You're all giving the reasons yourselves. Simply accept it.

[Ielenia]

Guess what, Tyrande's suspicion regarded Thalyssra first and foremost, voicing the doubt that she could have one day become the next Azshara/Elisande because reasons.

You mean reasons like the Nightborne having done just that in the past, shield themselves off from the world, leaving everyone else to fight for themselves, then ally with the Legion in the next invasion? I'd say those are some pretty strong reasons.

We don't know it

Which is the whole point! We don't know, and the races of Azeroth don't know either. And going by the nightborne's track record, things don't look too bright.

[corebit]

Nightborne are not even barely as delusional as the Alliance players complaining about Nightborne joining the Horde by just explaining themselves why they weren't going to join the Alliance.

I think most Alliance take issue with Liadrin's lines. What was she referring by Night Elves hiding, when it was the Nightborne who actually hid behind a shield? What was she referring by "while our people saved the world" when high elves didn't even exist during the War of the Ancients?

Liadrin either did some extreme mental gymnastics, or has a severely warped view of history, or both. Either way it was very out of character for her.

[Zulkhan]

You mean reasons like the Nightborne having done just that in the past, shield themselves off from the world, leaving everyone else to fight for themselves, then ally with the Legion in the next invasion? I'd say those are some pretty strong reasons.

No they're not. You're looking at someone who risked everything to free her people from the Legion's grasp and go far to assume she may one day become the very thing she's fighting against because...well, reasons. Tyrande had no justifications to compare Thalyssra to Elisande and even less to Azshara.

Which is the whole point! We don't know, and the races of Azeroth don't know either. And going by the nightborne's track record, things don't look too bright.

Whatever. In the game of trust those who give it in spite of the risks tend to receive it in return. Hence, Night Elves weren't going to get the Nightborne's trust without giving an hint of it.

I think most Alliance take issue with Liadrin's lines. What was she referring by Night Elves hiding, when it was the Nightborne who actually hid behind a shield? What was she referring by "while our people saved the world" when high elves didn't even exist during the War of the Ancients?

It was not a reference to the War of the Ancients but in general. And like it often happens with faction-driven speeches, these have only half-truths. Liadrin was most clearly referring to the Night Elf's Druids sleeping in the dens for millennia while obviously enlightening the more active role High Elves had in various businesses (Troll Wars/Second War/TBC) during the apparently pointless "Long Vigil" of Night Elves, something that, to someone a bit biased, may look like "sitting around a giant tree and do jackshit".

[Ielenia]

No they're not. You're looking at someone who risked everything to free her people from the Legion's grasp and go far to assume she may one day become the very thing she's fighting against because...well, reasons. Tyrande had no justifications to compare Thalyssra to Elisande and even less to Azshara.

That's all irrelevant. Remember Kael'Thas, someone who did everything to help their people survive a possible extinction, then became a lapdog to Kil'Jaeden? The Nightborne left the whole world to fend for themselves, which is "strike one" for their race as a whole. Then we have Elisande who seemed to be a good queen, as far as I can tell, considering not only we haven't heard of any revolt prior to the Legion coming a second time, but also Suramar is described as a place of peace (again, prior to Legion), and yet Elisande sided with the Legion, bringing torture and oppression to her people. That's strike two. Why should we not be suspicious of the motives of someone who belong to a race who already has two "strikes" against them?

Whatever. In the game of trust those who give it in spite of the risks tend to receive it in return. Hence, Night Elves weren't going to get the Nightborne's trust without giving an hint of it.

On that same token, in the game of trust, those who give it in spite of the risk also tend to receive a knife to the back or a slit to the throat.

[corebit]

t was not a reference to the War of the Ancients but in general. And like it often happens with faction-driven speeches, these have only half-truths. Liadrin was most clearly referring to the Night Elf's Druids sleeping in the dens for millennia while obviously enlightening the more active role High Elves had in various businesses (Troll Wars/Second War/TBC) during the apparently pointless "Long Vigil" of Night Elves, something that, to someone a bit biased, may look like "sitting around a giant tree and do jackshit".

But the context being presented by Thalysra with her hologram is the War of the Ancients, and the actions of the Nightborne which caused Tyrande's mistrust. Or did Liadrin chose to have an opinion on something she had zero clue in anyways?

It's also jarring to see a character like Liadrin make political "faction-driven speeches" given all her past deeds.

[Vynny]

So they don't thank the Alliance at all for their help nor do they wish to join them all because Tyrande was cautious with them? Completely disregarding the fact that they might be able to have great bonds with other races in the Alliance, they decide to join the Horde which is full of goblins, undead, orcs and trolls. The latter hate elves.
And that's somehow a BETTER choice than Tyrande's cautionary approach to them? It's so, so ridiculous. Dignity? Yeah good look having dignity in the Horde, Azeroth's rejects.

The Nightborne then call the Alliance stagnant. STAGNANT? What's stagnant about it? Sounds to me like Tyrande is completely right in being wary of the Nightborne, who seem to imply they want to seek power at any cost once more. And they call TYRANDE too proud! Holy smokes, the irony going on here!

Yeah, the Alliance is pretty stagnant:

The Night Elves have literally held their culture in stasis for millennia with the biggest changes being female druids/male priests, and letting night elves practice arcane magic in the face of a world shattering event.

Stormwind has literally been destroyed once, restored the original ruling family that it fell under to the monarchy, then the same ruler that they restored to power went missing for year and no one thought amongst immense civil strife "hey maybe we should form a democracy of some kind"

Ironforge is the most progressive of the bunch with them changing their social structure from 3 clans under the leadership of one clan to 3 clans each with their own representative in a council.

The Draenei are similar to the night elves where they have kept their culture the same for the most part for millennia.

Gnomes . . . yeah no change in them at all.

Gilnean's, same problem as the stormwind humans. Failed rulers being restored to power despite much civil strife and repeated failure by those rulers. It's almost like the humans in WoW are completely afraid of change to the point of propping rulers who have led their people to ruin multiple times.