Why do people act like Classic WOW was torture?

[Deleted]

Classic wow is torture for the people that somehow think they need to play it... it's not made for those people.

I will say this 1000x, they are NOT making this for people to go from retail to classic. They would prefer if everyone on retail just continued to play retail.

Stop acting like they are going to try and merge the playerbases to appease them both. They would have never released it if that was their goal. They want something for people playing illegal servers to use and to play something that isn't close to available otherwise.

There will never be a shortage of people trying to cross over from retail to classic, who "would only play it if they did X". Those people just need to stay away.

Hopefully they separate the subscriptions and then make the Classic forum for Classic subs only on the official forums.

I am 100% sure that retailers are gonna quit after level 10 or less, absolutely agree with you that a merge of playerbases is impossible.

[Jastall]

Same couple of names defending "Vanilla" as something no one else ever played, and a few logical beings shutting them down, Classic forums are so fun.

Also anyone saying "Vanilla" was unfriendly to alts compared to any other expansion,Legion etc, it depends how you view the game and how you play yourself.

If you consider your 920 ilvl alt as a decent alt in 2018 then ye, sorry to inform you that you are wrong.

Vanilla and TBC and most of WoTLK didnt have such problems cause the balancing was still non-existant/all over the place cause the game still had RPG elements.

Now that they are all gone and its a min-maxing situation, your alt to be relevant right now on the active game, they require 2 bis legendaries, 75 points in your main spec, 4 set, specific trinkets, otherwise take your useless character to LFR.

Vanilla was more like, take 1-2 weeks to level considering after the first pass you know everything and you dont waste time running around, and then its literally if you have friends to carry you quickly or a guild to get you into relevant gear, like T1/ZG/AQ20 in a matter of hours.

So yes, Vanilla was insanely friendly to alts if you had a clue about the game, which the majority did not.

Item scaling over the expansion was different, the power creep was different, bla bla bla, there werent so many things to consider as a character being useful/relevant to the active content.

The biggest problem Legion had when considering alts, was the first 6 months were they completely fucked up with the artifact weapon like the mongoloids they are when it comes to that.

As if you need 2 BiS leggies, 75 traits, 4 sets and BiS trinkets to do well in non-Mythic raids. I bring 2 alts who have none of these things in Heroic and perform fine. Yeah, I'm not getting orange parses, but I don't care about these. And my tank can handle anything the instance throws at him in mostly ToS gear. The situation was different up until mid Nighthold, sure, but from then on Legion isn't anymore alt unfriendly than any other xpack save WoD, which was alt friendly because there was jack shit to do in the first place. Vanilla is infinitely worse.

And you grinded like a total madman if you leveled a character in vanilla 1-60 in one week, not to mention gearing took ages unless you were at the tail end of vanilla or got carried. Protip; the vast majority of people did not have a guild ready to carry them through raids and funnel what little gear drops to their shitty alts.

[Clone]

When I say I think Vanilla has more immersive gameplay mechanics, it's impossible to be wrong. This is one of those fundamental things you seem unable to grasp. Just how many times were you dropped as a child?

You can say you think the Earth is flat too and be wrong as hell. Trying to pass it off as an opinion won't change it. I swear the level of idiocy from you is astounding.

[Deleted]

The torture you're pointing at most likely means the incredibly time consuming grind, which was fun but at the same time way too time consuming

[Nomads]

You can say you think the Earth is flat too and be wrong as hell. Trying to pass it off as an opinion won't change it. I swear the level of idiocy from you is astounding.

Ok, since you're simply not getting it. Let me spell it out for you like I would for a child. The way someone FEELS about something can be different than the way you FEEL about it. If someone says they FEEL the game is more immersive with Vanilla mechanics, thats their opinion. If you say you don't FEEL the same, then that's your opinion.

Neither one is fact. And you dont have to feel attacked because someone doesnt share your opinion. Confusing your opinion for fact shows you have the brain development of a child. Lets hope you're a late bloomer.... and under 25, or else you're doomed to a life of stupidity.

[Xecks]

compared to todays game classic was indeed torture.

[Clone]

Ok, since you're simply not getting it. Let me spell it out for you like I would for a child. The way someone FEELS about something can be different than the way you FEEL about it. If someone says they FEEL the game is more immersive with Vanilla mechanics, thats their opinion. If you say you don't FEEL the same, then that's your opinion.

Neither one is fact. And you dont have to feel attacked because someone doesnt share your opinion. Confusing your opinion for fact shows you have the brain development of a child. Lets hope you're a late bloomer.... and under 25, or else you're doomed to a life of stupidity.

This is what you aren't getting. It was never about how people felt about immersion, but how they justify said immersion. The argument for a certain mechanic was ultimately rooted in realism. Saying it was more immersive back then is logically flawed because objectively neither the old nor the new mechanic is realistic. Opinion doesn't matter in this context because the argument deals with facts.

If you are going to jump into an argument it's a good idea to know what it's about.

[Charge me Doctor]

This is what you aren't getting. It was never about how people felt about immersion, but how they justify said immersion. The argument for a certain mechanic was ultimately rooted in realism. Saying it was more immersive back then is logically flawed because objectively neither the old nor the new mechanic is realistic. Opinion doesn't matter in this context because the argument deals with facts.

If you are going to jump into an argument it's a good idea to know what it's about.

I can't recall the name of that MMORPG, but they handled arrows quite well - you had to use an ability like "craft arrows", "craft poisoned arrows", etc, and your quiver fills with 10 arrows (your quiver only fits 10 arrows, but you could expand it with items or talents abit) of this type allowing you to use ranged abilities, when you are out of them or they are not effective or you need special arrows for special abilities - you have to craft more of them or you have to use your melee abilities.

It was pain in the ass to use but it felt very immersive

[syar]

It was grindy and it is grindy now. The main difference is that we are grinding for different things now. In classic you grinded for power that would be useful in the less forgiving world/encounters. Now you grind for cosmetic mounts and shit. If you have a collectors obsessive compulsive disorder this type of farming suits you, if you don't you want vanilla back.

[Protean]

What's the problem with using mana again? It's been the go to base resource for most class archetypes for years, even in previous games.

Now you're just grasping for straws buddy, but that's ok.

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There's a difference between giving a friendly heads up, and a constant barrage of fear-mongering'esque hatred towards the game. Seriously.

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Yea, goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about. No worries, keep on hating, won't deter us from enjoying it upon release, and i bet we'll see you there as well, hate included.

Do people have to sign up with some group so they can coordinate how often they speak their opinion to avoid hurting your feelings?

If there are a thousand people each voicing their opinion once you don't get to complain that you've heard the warning a thousand times.

[Nomads]

I can't recall the name of that MMORPG, but they handled arrows quite well - you had to use an ability like "craft arrows", "craft poisoned arrows", etc, and your quiver fills with 10 arrows (your quiver only fits 10 arrows, but you could expand it with items or talents abit) of this type allowing you to use ranged abilities, when you are out of them or they are not effective or you need special arrows for special abilities - you have to craft more of them or you have to use your melee abilities.

It was pain in the ass to use but it felt very immersive

I didnt jump into anything. I was the one who originally told you that immersion is not realism. Until you understand that you need to quit bitching at everyone around you.

[Altariaz]

"Why do people act like Classic WOW was torture?"

To answer the question directly: If they act like that, then they were probably strongly against Bliz releasing Classic WoW. That is, it is a case of very sour grapes.

The truth is that Vanilla WoW was great fun.

[Charge me Doctor]

I didnt jump into anything. I was the one who originally told you that immersion is not realism. Until you understand that you need to quit bitching at everyone around you.

It have nothing to do with realism and i have no clue what you are talking about, but WoW ammo system was bullshit, because the cycle of "shoot, run out of ammo, replenish" didn't existed because... you could stockpile literally thousands of unites of ammo and. It was there for no purpose. If the design of hunter in wow was built around having to run out of ammo - then blizzard simply did a poor job, because there are dozens of way of implementing that and they chose poorly and you never actually run out of ammo unless you were ignorant to how things work (aka, first 10 levels or so when your first 200 arrows run out and you say "oh shit i have to BUY them?!". For fucks sake, they gave rogues "poison brewing" profession but didn't give "survival" profession with an ability to make arrows, traps, unique food pills and special food for your pet for hunters, which would be nice solution.
But if the design was to never run out of ammo this ammo system actually made some sense, especially considering that quivers exist (and you are have incentive to use it since they boost your damage) and you are supposed to fill your quiver without leaving any empty spot (sometimes ever taking 1-2 slots from your backpack just in case). You had to abandon, like, 10 bag slots for ammo (at least at lower levels) and instead of them simply lying around in your wool sack you have quiver or ammo pouch to compensate for lower bag space with some damage. And considering their later move to remove ammo completely - it's kinda obvious that they never intended for hunters to run out of ammo, so stockpiling (read: buying shit from a fucking vendor) ammo was intended "mechanic" (i seriously can't make myself to type this in seriously, buying shit from vendor is not a game mechanic). And with addons that sell all your gray shit as you rightclick on an NPC it would be very easy to make an addon that automatically fills you quiver with arrows by right clicking on a proper vendor, which kills all purpose of this "mechanic" even existing.

So yeah, it was neither realistic (which is not a case for almost anything in the game) or immersive (that's personal thing, you choose to feel immersed, if having an option to stockpile thousands of arrows in your bags breaks your immersion or intensifies it - it's all in your head) or a "mechanic" (since there is little to no interaction with it, just like having a mining pick in your bags to be able to mine - it's not a mechanic, it's just a bare requirement that taxes your bag space and nothing else)

[Nomads]

It have nothing to do with realism and i have no clue what you are talking about, but WoW ammo system was bullshit, because the cycle of "shoot, run out of ammo, replenish" didn't existed because... you could stockpile literally thousands of unites of ammo and. It was there for no purpose. If the design of hunter in wow was built around having to run out of ammo - then blizzard simply did a poor job, because there are dozens of way of implementing that and they chose poorly and you never actually run out of ammo unless you were ignorant to how things work (aka, first 10 levels or so when your first 200 arrows run out and you say "oh shit i have to BUY them?!". For fucks sake, they gave rogues "poison brewing" profession but didn't give "survival" profession with an ability to make arrows, traps, unique food pills and special food for your pet for hunters, which would be nice solution.
But if the design was to never run out of ammo this ammo system actually made some sense, especially considering that quivers exist (and you are have incentive to use it since they boost your damage) and you are supposed to fill your quiver without leaving any empty spot (sometimes ever taking 1-2 slots from your backpack just in case). You had to abandon, like, 10 bag slots for ammo (at least at lower levels) and instead of them simply lying around in your wool sack you have quiver or ammo pouch to compensate for lower bag space with some damage. And considering their later move to remove ammo completely - it's kinda obvious that they never intended for hunters to run out of ammo, so stockpiling (read: buying shit from a fucking vendor) ammo was intended "mechanic" (i seriously can't make myself to type this in seriously, buying shit from vendor is not a game mechanic). And with addons that sell all your gray shit as you rightclick on an NPC it would be very easy to make an addon that automatically fills you quiver with arrows by right clicking on a proper vendor, which kills all purpose of this "mechanic" even existing.

So yeah, it was neither realistic (which is not a case for almost anything in the game) or immersive (that's personal thing, you choose to feel immersed, if having an option to stockpile thousands of arrows in your bags breaks your immersion or intensifies it - it's all in your head) or a "mechanic" (since there is little to no interaction with it, just like having a mining pick in your bags to be able to mine - it's not a mechanic, it's just a bare requirement that taxes your bag space and nothing else)

Immersion is about having rules and limitations. There are drawbacks you live with to gain the benefits. You're right in that its definitely not a perfect system, but its better than Retail WoW where they've removed all the drawbacks for the sake of a streamlined, easy to access game.

I mean no game gets it perfect. Look at Skyrim and it follows many of the same principles. You carry around shit loads of ammo no real person could carry. You need a mining pick to mine ore. Yet people dont complain about that not being immersive in Skyrim. Failing to realize this shows you're only arguing for the sake of defending Retail WoW's decision the throw all that out.

[Clone]

I didnt jump into anything. I was the one who originally told you that immersion is not realism. Until you understand that you need to quit bitching at everyone around you.

Nobody said they are the same, but they often overlap. In many cases realism is used to add to immersion. When you say "shooting bullets out of thin air makes no sense" your case is ultimately rooted in realism. Telling people having to carry ammo is more immersive is using realism to justify immersion. No amount of stating immersion is not realism (something I knew already) is going to change it.

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I can't recall the name of that MMORPG, but they handled arrows quite well - you had to use an ability like "craft arrows", "craft poisoned arrows", etc, and your quiver fills with 10 arrows (your quiver only fits 10 arrows, but you could expand it with items or talents abit) of this type allowing you to use ranged abilities, when you are out of them or they are not effective or you need special arrows for special abilities - you have to craft more of them or you have to use your melee abilities.

It was pain in the ass to use but it felt very immersive

In AC Origins you can retrieve arrows, and there are usually arrows lying around in camps. A single quiver is usually enough with a good combo of stealth and headshots.

[Charge me Doctor]

Immersion is about having rules and limitations.

Is it? People feel immersed by different things. I don't see how having rules and limitations can make someone immersed, but whatever float your boat.

There are drawbacks you live with to gain the benefits. You're right in that its definitely not a perfect system, but its better than Retail WoW where they've removed all the drawbacks for the sake of a streamlined, easy to access game. For me having or not having a resource that's you are able to carry in amounts that make existence of said resource irrelevant neither breaks or adds to immersion. It literally does nothing for me. And after asking about it couple of dozens people on bnet and whatsapp they share my feelings.

I mean no game gets it perfect. Look at Skyrim and it follows many of the same principles. You carry around shit loads of ammo no real person could carry. You need a mining pick to mine ore. Yet people dont complain about that not being immersive in Skyrim. Failing to realize this shows you're only arguing for the sake of defending Retail WoW's decision the throw all that out.

People were kinda, you know, upset that they made arrows weightless in Skyrim at first. Then may realized that it's irrelevant and adds nothing to the game so... now you have virtually unlimited amount of arrows... and you don't have to think about it... and what makes it even more absurd compared to wow - you can loot arrows from dead enemies and actually never had to buy or craft any arrows to use bows - you just never run out of them as long as you keep shooting at someone. Sounds similar? Infinite resource that you no longer have to manage. Just like on live wow.

Skyrim have a weight mechanic, so it's incomparable with wow. Why are you so obsessed with it? Lets talk about, say Divinity? its an RPG and i can't find anyone who will dare to say that this game isn't immersive. It gives you unlimited arrows and ability ti find/craft/buy special arrows that act like skills. Imagine instead of having mana and arrows having to "craft" you skills beforehand? You would have just 50 special arrow slots and, say, 5 trap slots. You have to craft them with your special skills before combat and when you run out of it - you can't use your ranged abilities. I would play that.

I am arguing only for the sake of saying that immersion is subjective feeling that highly depends on a person, his mood and environment. It has nothing to do with being able to carry 10k of arrows or having unlimited amount of arrows (which is the same thing gameplay-vice by the way)

[lightz]

its simple. theyre pussies.

[Charge me Doctor]

Nobody said they are the same, but they often overlap. In many cases realism is used to add to immersion. When you say "shooting bullets out of thin air makes no sense" your case is ultimately rooted in realism. Telling people having to carry ammo is more immersive is using realism to justify immersion. No amount of stating immersion is not realism (something I knew already) is going to change it.

Well one thing definitely broke the immersion for me - when a gun made a sound of a bow with certain shots. Glad blizzard fixed that.

Or imagine Barrage being used with old arrows and draining... one arrow. How many arrows actually Barrrage or Volley would have to use? Why Volley used only 1 arrow? It makes no sense.

[Doomchicken]

I think torture is probably a slight case of hyperbole. Regardless, there exists on both sides of the equation people who are unable to actually look at the positives and negatives and only see either positives only ( a lot on the pro classic side) or only negatives ( a lot on the anti classic side) which really makes the "discussion" quite useless and devolves into childish bickering and name calling. It would be healthier for both sides to accept that Classic has some good points to it but also had some fundamental flaws that needed fixing.