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  1. #1

    Your take on requirements for entry level jobs

    I am interested in seeing what you all think when ever you hear or see a job application that is like this. Basically, its a job that says its entry level, but it lists requirements that would easily make it not entry level. Such things include being a job for a cashier saying its entry level, but requires 3 years of prior experience. Or a job that says it requires no prior training, but then wants experience.

    I recently had a discussion about this with someone who claimed to be from the hiring department of a company. They actually employed this tactic quite often where they would post pretty extreme requirements for what they would say was an entry level job. They claimed that the mindset was that it would say it was an entry level job, and it would be, but that it would then list something like needing years of experience in that field. They said it acted like a filter and that anyone who didn't bother to apply, they didn't want anyway. They said that they looked for candidates who would see the requirements and ignore them, and typically write up a cover letter of "here is why you should hire me despite my lack of credentials".

    Now, I have heard that most actually think in the opposite manner, myself included. Most people see it and laugh at it. Its become a literal joke at this point and most appear to chalk it up to inexperienced or stupid hiring personnel. Some have even given examples such has wanting years of experience on a program that hasn't been out for years. Others just chalk it up to a generic listing that some spam bot posted and that it doesn't mean anything more then a careless HR who are really clueless.

    Given these two different view points, I am curious. What are your stances on this? Do you see any merit to what the guy I talked with said? That it acts as a filter? Or do you see it as a joke or just down right clueless hiring personnel?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  2. #2
    In my opinion, you should interpret "entry level, requires three years' experience" to mean "we want you to be experienced because we don't want to train you, and we're going to pay you entry-level pay" and therefore you should simply pass.

  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Having interviewed candidates for jobs, I can say the requirements are very important and we did have min requirements. But were also flexible to the extent, it depended on the candidate and what they had to offer.

  4. #4
    i read that whole description simply as "underpaid"

  5. #5
    It means entry level into that company. An entry level NASA job would be a lot different than an entry level McDonalds job.

  6. #6
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Here’s the truth most hiring personnel have no idea what so ever. If they like you best they’ll hire you as long as you check out which has zero to do with them, if you pass then you get hired.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    I've fought, many times, with HR and hiring managers who bulk up job requirements for a job position. Drives me nuts in that it often makes it difficult to, quickly, fill a job that is, in fact, an entry level position. Recent example: entry level web developer - I don't need someone with 3 years of java experience when the person I am looking for is going to be doing some low end client side javascript. Grrrr, drives me fucking nuts.

  8. #8
    Old God endersblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canderous1 View Post
    i read that whole description simply as "underpaid"
    This. Every time I've interviewed for jobs with such descriptions, it's basically 'bust your ass for as close to minimum wage as we can pay you and still claim to pay you more than minimum wage". I'm in a tech job that required zilch for higher education, no experience, just basic computer knowledge, and I'm getting paid a lot more than minimum wage. They asked me three tech-related questions in my interview, I got 2 right, the other I was unfamiliar with. Started working 3 days later.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Having interviewed candidates for jobs, I can say the requirements are very important and we did have min requirements. But were also flexible to the extent, it depended on the candidate and what they had to offer.
    All jobs have requirements. What is your take on jobs that list entry level while having substantial requirements that wouldn't typically be associated with entry level?
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Given these two different view points, I am curious. What are your stances on this? Do you see any merit to what the guy I talked with said? That it acts as a filter? Or do you see it as a joke or just down right clueless hiring personnel?
    Just my personal take, it's a filter in multiple ways. First, it shows some chutzpah to apply for a job without meeting the requirements. Second, it's a pay filter as others have mentioned. Third, it's sometimes enlightening to see what candidates put on a resume to try meet the requirements.

    I don't work in a highly corporate sector where hiring decisions are made by other people. But, I would imagine clueless HR is a factor as well.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  11. #11
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Entry Level doesn't mean "No training", that's a common misconception.

    If a Company's "Entry level" is 3 years of experience, that just means their base pre-requisite is 3 years of Experience thus having that would mean you pass their Entry level requirements.

    Being a WoW-related Website allow me to explain it in WoW Terms. If a Guild wants to recruit people for Heroic Antorus and it has an recommended Entry level of 940 ilvl. Then if you are below 940 ilvl you aren't in their "Entry Level" requirements.
    Last edited by Super Kami Dende; 2018-01-13 at 04:50 AM.

  12. #12
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    High requirements for simple jobs usually means two things:
    A: you're gonna bust your ass for management who won't give a shit about your training but will expect you to perform far higher than you're paid.
    B: it's a scare tactic to keep people with zero skills from applying.

    Sometimes the ads will give it away, they'll use a lot of buzzwords and business catch phrases, which means you're probably going to get A. B tends to be shorter adds and more often used by small businesses.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  13. #13
    Entry level just means that it's bottom tier for a given company, department or type of job IE a specific trade. My trade, for example, has some entry level stuff for fiber optic cabling, but companies generally won't let you get into that without a basic understanding of the copper side of things first since those principals carry over as light instead of a tone.

    Most people misuse the phrase "Entry Level" when they mean to say "No Skill" or "Green (Horn)".

    As always when it comes to working for someone else: You're only worth what you can negotiate.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    In my opinion, you should interpret "entry level, requires three years' experience" to mean "we want you to be experienced because we don't want to train you, and we're going to pay you entry-level pay" and therefore you should simply pass.
    This is exactly what those requirements mean. They know there's a lot of competition often, and they want someone with experience that's daft or desperate enough to work for entry-level peanuts.

    I saw it with lawyers and paralegals. There was a big surplus of lawyers in the area, and I saw ads from law firms explicitly saying they were looking for JDs to work as paralegals, for paralegal pay.

  15. #15
    IMO, any job that wants to call itself entry level should not require work experience.

  16. #16
    Pit Lord
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    even if something is entry level, if youre bringing skills to the table and the company needs those skills (that you CAN prove you have) then you can negotiate your salary and should. There is a dollar amount that a company will pay for each core competency (hard skills) interpersonal (soft skills) and added value skills (languages ect) that you need to negotiate.

    If youre Joe Rockbreaker trying to get a job at some factory or you have no experience or education in your preferred field then that sucks you have nothing to negotiate with

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    IMO, any job that wants to call itself entry level should not require work experience.
    thats ignorant. No one, for instance, would hire someone with their CPA to audit taxes for a multi-national company without experience which you dont necessarily have if you just go to school. Which is why most people in developed skill fields do internships which count as work experience.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    even if something is entry level, if youre bringing skills to the table and the company needs those skills (that you CAN prove you have) then you can negotiate your salary and should. There is a dollar amount that a company will pay for each core competency (hard skills) interpersonal (soft skills) and added value skills (languages ect) that you need to negotiate.

    If youre Joe Rockbreaker trying to get a job at some factory or you have no experience or education in your preferred field then that sucks you have nothing to negotiate with

    - - - Updated - - -



    thats ignorant. No one, for instance, would hire someone with their CPA to audit taxes for a multi-national company without experience which you dont necessarily have if you just go to school. Which is why most people in developed skill fields do internships which count as work experience.
    You can't become a CPA unless you have 500 hours of work experience to begin with. That job simply shouldn't be called entry level.

  18. #18
    Here's how dumb HR can be. Many years ago I helped with a hiring spree looking for new grads for entry level engineering positions. I interviewed two PhDs, one female and one male, both exceptionally bright. I gave them the highest recommendation. At the end of the week I noticed neither had made the cut. I asked my super wtf happened. He told me HR had rejected them as over qualified because they only needed a bachelors degree. That was the last time I helped with interviews.

  19. #19
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    I'm going with what other people have said -- Entry Level should not require years of experience to perform the required tasks. Call me spoiled for entering a trade that my training was handled on the job with the required classroom hours handled by the Company without prior experience. Requiring other places to handle your training and free labor via internships just to enter their company is lazy management attempting to cut corners on training costs.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    I recently had a discussion about this with someone who claimed to be from the hiring department of a company. They actually employed this tactic quite often where they would post pretty extreme requirements for what they would say was an entry level job. They claimed that the mindset was that it would say it was an entry level job, and it would be, but that it would then list something like needing years of experience in that field. They said it acted like a filter and that anyone who didn't bother to apply, they didn't want anyway. They said that they looked for candidates who would see the requirements and ignore them, and typically write up a cover letter of "here is why you should hire me despite my lack of credentials".
    Advertisements for entry level positions with endless requirements are signals for shit companies. This is well-established in software development business. Those vacancies will only attract the most desperate. I personally eliminate shit companies based on their vacancy advertisement. If what they are asking is coherent and logical for the position they are hiring for, then I apply, otherwise ignore. Go to any 1st tier software development companies' hiring page, what you'll see is a well-thought/coherent list of requirements and responsibilities. I think this guy claiming to be in HR is full of shit.

    Consider this from a different angle, a job advertisement is the first contact between a potential employee and employer. A skilled, well-educated employee will trim the positions and go for the best he/she can get. If you want to attract these people, your first impression needs to be good and a stupid job definition/requirements is the last thing you want.

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