Don't ask for balancing classes. Ask for the Burning Crusade.

[Deleted]

My comment is but a speck. It changes nothing.

In other words, useless.

[Demithio]

Yeah I wish we could have TBC. Hands down the best expansion created. Too bad it probably wont happen, so were stuck with whatever Blizzard decides to make of 'classic'.

[Bigbazz]

TBC is my favourite expansion, pretty good class balance (at least by 2.4) with every niche filled and each spec having a place in a raid with some fun classes (Fury/Arms Warrior), great lore and just balance between modern and classic wow.. That said though TBC was crucially flawed in terms of raid design that greatly favoured ranged classes, especially pre Black Temple. To the extent that if gear distribution was not an issue you would just fill the raid with all ranged aside from an Enhance shaman in the tank group for threat, and you would roflstomp the raids.

Naturally if we had TBC coming we would have the same discussion about changing stuff, there are always flaws to be found.

I won't, but sadly those exact small gripes are why vanilla will be hugely populated around the first few days/weeks/months.
Then people will get tired of all the small problems here and there that really make no sense and drop it = wasted potential.

All the gradual improvements is how we ended up at Legion, it's the opposite of what people want with Classic. That's kinda the point, to reverse all of the changes, big and small and just have the unrefined original version of the game. As soon as you go down the route of changing one thing you can easily get the ball rolling and end up with a bastardised modern version of Vanilla that is very different from the original game as a result.

Nobody is forcing you to play it, let it be what it is.

[kaintk]

what the hell lol, the guy want old vanilla without patch for it ?
LOL
balanced class will be there
balanced dungone will be there
balanced raid will be there
balanced pvp will be there
learn to live with that, vanilla was not a static game, if no expansion ever been made, the game would have been patched a lot with balancing in head, graphic would have been upgraded too, you really think that classic game should be like it was ? you made big mistake thinking that boy

[Zerzuru]

Just asking , Vanilla was just about class some specs being fotm and some being just to buff everyone else and watch or about a hard game with a strong social aspect ?
Please restrain from entering deffensive mode and throw with arguments like "you know nothing about Vanilla, noob ,go play live!" , you can do this after ask my question.

[deniter]

You shut up buddy. You have also no idea what blizzard will change and what they wont. However Kazlofski has a point. As much as we would love to believe, that Blizzard is releasing Classic servers as some service to players, it is always all about money. If Classic server will be success, we may see Classic server support for very long time, maybe even another servers for TBC, WotLK etc. But if it will fail, Classic servers will be just memory of lost potential with few players still playing it and we may forget about support of any other Legacy expansions or some development for Classic servers.

Vanilla had many issues because tech was missing, not because it was design choice, it would be shame, if many people would be turned off by some small annoyances here and there, which fixes wouldn't even touch the "Vanilla feel" in any way.

I am not sure what to fix but I believe this "religious" view that everything in Classic has to be as it was in Vanilla may, in the end, kill whole "classic project".

I agree. Vanilla release was rushed with lots of bugs and incomplete features like class abilities and spells. Blizzard knew this but there was more urgent matters to deal with so they made a decision to leave some of it to the first expansion (TBC).

I've wished vanilla realms for as long as Lich King got its last patches, but i don't miss that buggy mess. I miss the game as they planned it to be before 'the convenience crew' took charge in development team.

[ManiaCCC]

Just asking , Vanilla was just about class some specs being fotm and some being just to buff everyone else and watch or about a hard game with a strong social aspect ?
Please restrain from entering deffensive mode and throw with arguments like "you know nothing about Vanilla, noob ,go play live!" , you can do this after ask my question.

Yes and no. Every aspect of the game had their fotm classes and specs but it also means, that som specs could be pretty shitty or buff bots in the raid environment but they were really good in PvP.

And don't believe crap, that some classes and specs were useless in the game, Every class and spec were perfectly viable for many different tasks from farming to dungeon runs. YEs, some just were not viable in raids, but raiding for just few top people anyway. 90% of people never touched raiding nor they ever cared.

[HavokHeart]

Yes and no. Every aspect of the game had their fotm classes and specs but it also means, that som specs could be pretty shitty or buff bots in the raid environment but they were really good in PvP.

And don't believe crap, that some classes and specs were useless in the game, Every class and spec were perfectly viable for many different tasks from farming to dungeon runs. YEs, some just were not viable in raids, but raiding for just few top people anyway. 90% of people never touched raiding nor they ever cared.

The class stacking in SWP disproves the balanced TBC argument. Class imbalance was nearly as bad, in some cases worse, than in vanilla, with rogues and locks nearly doubling that of other "hybrid" classes.

[Xecks]

yes , you guys who want changes by all means ask for tbc. leave classic alone .

[MMKing]

The class stacking in SWP disproves the balanced TBC argument. Class imbalance was nearly as bad, in some cases worse, than in vanilla, with rogues and locks nearly doubling that of other "hybrid" classes.

So some hardcore guild stacked classes? What of it?

Class imbalance is the pre-determined outcome when you decide to design nine distinct classes with 3 talent trees each. No matter how well Blizzard adjust the slides, there is gonna be certain fights where one class shines while another is held back. Your whole point rest on the assumption that class stacking made SWP easy, or even significantly easier. When in reality, the raid was so soul crushingly difficult that class stacking and leather working drum stacking became next to mandatory to finish the raid at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf7j4IIIZrU

Not sure what you are on about regarding Rogues and Warlocks doubling, as in doing 200% the damage of hybrid classes. There are three hunters top 3, and a shaman at the 6th position. In fact, SK gaming only brought 3 rogues and 4 warlocks despite you telling us that they deal double the damage of hybrids. yet a Shaman appears at the 6th position, some 250DPS bellow the number 1 position.

[Mirishka]

Honestly this is so stupid.

"Lets ask for worse because thats how it used to be."

The game can literally be upgraded to play better. Not talking about EASIER - just better. And people will still spout shit like that

Your definition of worse isn't everyone's. Some people think most aspects of vanilla WoW are better than current 'retail'. I for one don't, but I think that they need to release vanilla WoW as it was, not some weird vanilla-but-with-retail-bits hybrid.

Thousands of people have asked for vanilla WoW servers. So Blizz needs to give them vanilla WoW servers.

All the people asking for new models, quality-of-life changes from Legion and WoD, transmog, mount/pet collection UI, etc... those really aren't the people Blizz was aiming at with their WoW Classic announcement.

[Irian]

It does seem most are falling in line with the “you think you do but don’t” saying. You wanted them to make classic servers but now that you see what was really there you feel the need to “improve” what was wrong, be it transmogrifing, pet and mount tabs or others. You can’t take it as it was and be happy with it then don’t play cause when you change it you will not be getting the classic experience, just some knock off.

I came into this thread to say this.

Christ, the vanilla server forums and general community is a trainwreck. I feel like daily there's a 10+ page threat bickering about what they want the server to be and if it should have xyz feature. At this point it's easy to see that no matter what they release there's going to be a huge chunk of the crowd upset and asking for changes.

People gave that statement so much flak, yet it's being proven pretty true. I agreed with it then and I agreed with it now as someone who did play during classic. A lot of people clearly didn't remember what classic was actually like. If you want classic servers then you need to acknowledge that these annoying things like quivers, soul shards, debuff limits, mounts, and lack of transmog are a part of the experience itself. Inconvenience is in itself a kind of experience even if it might not always be a great one.

[Deleted]

Your definition of worse isn't everyone's. Some people think most aspects of vanilla WoW are better than current 'retail'. I for one don't, but I think that they need to release vanilla WoW as it was, not some weird vanilla-but-with-retail-bits hybrid.

Thousands of people have asked for vanilla WoW servers. So Blizz needs to give them vanilla WoW servers.

All the people asking for new models, quality-of-life changes from Legion and WoD, transmog, mount/pet collection UI, etc... those really aren't the people Blizz was aiming at with their WoW Classic announcement.

And i am one of those thousands.

AS you would know if you actually followed this discussion instead of just making things up the people who want vanilla are mostly NOT purists by Blizzards own poll. Most people who want vanilla servers want to see some changes to them aswell.

Now just calling you out on some more BS here, most of the things you think people are asking for, noone is in reality asking for.

Also what in the world makes you think you know what Blizzard was(was?? lol, you mean IS) aiming their wow classic announcement at.

Obviously as with everything they make it the way they want it and the way they think most people will enjoy it. They arent making this for an extremely small but rabbid and outspoken purist vanilla group of people

"I'm an opponent of stupid." riiiight

[Aliven]

It ain't fun. But it is vanilla so deal with it.

Good luck finding pentium 2 and 14" monitor. Hey, it isnt fun or easy. But that vanilla for you

[Kazlofski]

You shut up buddy. You have also no idea what blizzard will change and what they wont. However Kazlofski has a point. As much as we would love to believe, that Blizzard is releasing Classic servers as some service to players, it is always all about money. If Classic server will be success, we may see Classic server support for very long time, maybe even another servers for TBC, WotLK etc. But if it will fail, Classic servers will be just memory of lost potential with few players still playing it and we may forget about support of any other Legacy expansions or some development for Classic servers.

Vanilla had many issues because tech was missing, not because it was design choice, it would be shame, if many people would be turned off by some small annoyances here and there, which fixes wouldn't even touch the "Vanilla feel" in any way.

I am not sure what to fix but I believe this "religious" view that everything in Classic has to be as it was in Vanilla may, in the end, kill whole "classic project".

Exactly on point! Thank you for understanding!

- - - Updated - - -

I’m sure that’s exactly what blizz has planned. Go complete vanilla until the novelty wears off then make proper server adjustments to bring people back and increase the long term playability of the server. People will realize that some aspects just aren’t acceptable once they’ve experienced them again.

But don’t think they should have many if any changes off the start.

Agreed, that's exactly what I think will happen, full vanilla at launch until the numbers start falling too much and then introduce tweaks to bring a new wave of people into the servers.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm in no way strictly against changes to Vanilla, but specifically in this case, you are completely ignoring the fact people never had a lot of mounts in Vanilla. You just had one of your racial ones, maybe if you were a geek you got one or two from the other races, a PvP mount maybe, and then you could be super lucky to get a ZG mount or something but in general, mounts were an exceptionally rare thing in general. You had like 5 of them, not 500 like today.

Don't forget that vanilla realm this time won't be limited to around 2 years or so like original vanilla was, it's here to stay.
That means, think in like 3-4 years, you want to work on your main even more, get collections etc, you will get more than a few pets + mounts eventually, lots of transmog sets, what happens then? People will surely whine down the line that they need more bagspace or for UI conveniences to be introduced.

And as this thread goes, some do agree with UI changes while some are purists, so as someone said, no matter what state the game releases in, a large chunk won't be satisfied...



Lastly, just a point to think about - Blizzad is hiring an entire crew to overlook vanilla development and it's been said somewhere that they already have a build running, maybe it's an awful one but still a build.
Do you believe they will hire all those people to do a few tweaks/bug fixes here and there and then fire 90% of it?
Because vanilla is supposed to remain with it's same content for eternity, no? so 10% of that team is surely enough to maintain it (if that).

But that won't happen which means they will have an entire vanilla team being paid monthly without doing much really so this leads me to believe in one way or another, either they will introduce new content eventually beyond 1.12 in the same vanilla taste and/or make UI conveniences/ class balances/ small fixes here and there that didn't happen in vanilla or perhaps even open 2 vanilla realms - one with new additions and conveniences and a pure one - and you can imagine where most people will move to after being tired of dealing with those small annoyances that make playing it tedious and not in a fun way.

[Squiggit]

If you want classic servers then you need to acknowledge that these annoying things like quivers, soul shards, debuff limits, mounts, and lack of transmog are a part of the experience itself.

No they don't. It's perfectly valid for someone to argue that the best way to deliver a quality experience is to take the best parts of vanilla and discard some of the worst.

It's also perfectly valid for you and other people to disagree with them and argue that the best classic experience is one as close to the way things were back then as possible (whenever 'back then' was).

But all the nonsense being tossed around about slippery slopes or "just go play X" or "if you don't want this you don't get it" is just that, nonsense.

[Blamblam41]

It does seem most are falling in line with the “you think you do but don’t” saying. You wanted them to make classic servers but now that you see what was really there you feel the need to “improve” what was wrong, be it transmogrifing, pet and mount tabs or others. You can’t take it as it was and be happy with it then don’t play cause when you change it you will not be getting the classic experience, just some knock off.

You're not getting the classic experience regardless. This is not Blizzard in 2004. This is Activision-Blizzard in the year 2018.

Understand the company before your wellwishing about their shitty product.

[Devilyaki]

You're not getting the classic experience regardless. This is not Blizzard in 2004. This is Activision-Blizzard in the year 2018.

Understand the company before your wellwishing about their shitty product.

Correct with out a time machine you won’t get a true experience, one of the things that made classic wow fun was that it was all new. You already know everything you are going to get and how to get it, the information is everywhere unlike how it was back then.
What they said they wanted to do though was give the closest experience to that as possible I believe and if you go about changing everything then you won’t get that.

[MoanaLisa]

It does seem most are falling in line with the “you think you do but don’t” saying. You wanted them to make classic servers but now that you see what was really there you feel the need to “improve” what was wrong, be it transmogrifing, pet and mount tabs or others. You can’t take it as it was and be happy with it then don’t play cause when you change it you will not be getting the classic experience, just some knock off.

Brack was not wrong. Nonetheless his argument about launching and preserving a vanilla game as a historical legacy thing is a good one and I hope they start off with it very much as it was. Including inconveniences.

There's plenty of time a year or so down the line to introduce QOL changes in the UI if that seems necessary. The play is the thing.

[Irian]

No they don't. It's perfectly valid for someone to argue that the best way to deliver a quality experience is to take the best parts of vanilla and discard some of the worst.

It's also perfectly valid for you and other people to disagree with them and argue that the best classic experience is one as close to the way things were back then as possible (whenever 'back then' was).

But all the nonsense being tossed around about slippery slopes or "just go play X" or "if you don't want this you don't get it" is just that, nonsense.

Note that I didn't say you had to agree with it. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some stuff was fixed along these lines, however it should not be as expected or demanded as I've seen.

The reason the "pro-authentic" players are so vitriolic and pushy about it is that it would be very easy to taint the experience if people keep asking for "just this one thing" from modern that makes the experience more convenient. It wasn't convenient, it was a clunky as hell and awkward game and that was a part of the challenge of progressing through it.