Reroll now while you still have time

[Ollz113]

please tell me again why rogues are paying a utility tax when that concept was removed from the game at the end of burning crusade?
please tell me why it is okay to have all 3 rogue specs in the gutter so bad that we could literally swap spec and still be in the gutter?
please tell me why a pure dps class should be okay with all of our dps specs being garbage?

and before you start again into your survivability and stuff like that, i would point out that all 4 pure classes have abilities that allow them to solo mechanics and yet all of them have at least 1 decent spec, and warlocks have been dominant all expansion long.

Arguably the best class in the game for M+ bring insane burst, the most ludicrous toolkit and have front page parses all over mythic logs and you post this??

Watch any good rogue player in M+ or mythic raids and shut the hell up...

[Deleted]

Arguably the best class in the game for M+

What year is it? Early 2017?
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=19

[Demeia]

What year is it? Early 2017?
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=19

Um, wow, that's fairly grim. Wonder what's up there. Poor Aoe? Fewer rogues? I mean, for goodness sakes, I don't think I've ever seen monk participation beat us...

[Deleted]

Yeah, reroll from Outlaw because that spec is god awful to play

[Phookah]

Yeah, reroll from Outlaw because that spec is god awful to play

Spec feels fun to play, just puts out garbage numbers.

[glowpipe]

Arguably the best class in the game for M+ bring insane burst, the most ludicrous toolkit and have front page parses all over mythic logs and you post this??

Watch any good rogue player in M+ or mythic raids and shut the hell up...

Front page parses ? i looked over all of the fights in mythic antorus. Top 100 on each boss on mythic. Out of 1100 possible spots. it was around 5-10 rogues in total. And the highest up a rogue ever was, was number 15. The rest was 35 and down. I wouldn't call that front page parses all over.

Sure. Rogues are awesome when it comes to doing shit with their toolbelt. But most people play the rogue, a pure dps class, to dmg. Not being a third thank and support. And as a dps. There are many classes who does that way better.

[Cyanix]

... most people play the rogue, a pure dps class, to dmg. Not being a third thank and support. And as a dps. There are many classes who does that way better.

This.

We don't friggin' care about that extra survivability which let rogues outlive raid wipes or soak shit.
I didn't pick the class twelve years ago to play a sponge.

[Mafic]

Um, wow, that's fairly grim. Wonder what's up there. Poor Aoe? Fewer rogues? I mean, for goodness sakes, I don't think I've ever seen monk participation beat us...

According to the sims Outlaw is the best!!!!!

LOL

Bottom line is that a spec has to be viable in real situations (not just sims) but also fun to play. Most of Rogue specs at the moment are not fun to play and are viable in borderline or extreme circumstantial situations.

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This.

We don't friggin' care about that extra survivability which let rogues outlive raid wipes or soak shit.
I didn't pick the class twelve years ago to play a sponge.

Rogues always had the ability to soak. That is the secondary benefit of the class for a melee that wears leather. But I agree the primary benefit of the class was to be a top tier melee that delivers DPS.

[Varolyn]

According to the sims Outlaw is the best!!!!!

LOL

Bottom line is that a spec has to be viable in real situations (not just sims) but also fun to play. Most of Rogue specs at the moment are not fun to play and are viable in borderline or extreme circumstantial situations.

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Rogues always had the ability to soak. That is the secondary benefit of the class for a melee that wears leather. But I agree the primary benefit of the class was to be a top tier melee that delivers DPS.

Outlaw looking high on the sims is why I always facepalm at people begging at outlaw buffs. The specs has far greater issues than just damage tuning right now. It looks so low on logs because of how bad the spec handles a raid environment. Lack of dots, poor mobility compared to other specs, and just the overall design of the spec that contradicts itself (for example, giving the spec a free proc ability when the spec regenerates energy way too fast). It's cleave/AoE is even bad right now, which was suppose to be it's niche.

It needs a hard look at by blizz during the BfA alpha/beta for outlaw to be good again, because aura buffs will just bandaid the issues the spec has that will end up being exposed anyway. Tbh, I think sub still has a lot of issues too and that assassin is the only well designed rogue spec but I'm sure people will disagree with me there.

[ymirsson]

A
Most of Rogue specs at the moment are not fun to play and are viable in borderline or extreme circumstantial situations.

Rogues always had the ability to soak. That is the secondary benefit of the class for a melee that wears leather. But I agree the primary benefit of the class was to be a top tier melee that delivers DPS.

Fun is subjective. And rogues are viable unless you define that different then anyone else.

Rogues are on soak duty since the redesign of feint and the introduction of CloS. In classic they were the squishiest class, apart from actually being in stealth there were two cooldowns (vanish and evasion) which helped you not to die to anyone looking in your direction.

[RobertoCarlos]

Doesnt seem that hard to understand blizzard didnt want to end the expansion with raids stacking rogues, because if they have the best survivability and damage, then you get stuff like method using 5 rogues in ToS on hugely important bosses because of a lot of reasons that make rogues strong.

Their damage is still good in progression fights especially assassin with bracers which is surely the best time to be relevant? eh who am I kidding most of the people complaining just want to Instant aoe everything to death in a 2min fight to top the logs to brag to their guildies. Which you guys are playing the wrong class for that.

[Mafic]

Outlaw looking high on the sims is why I always facepalm at people begging at outlaw buffs. The specs has far greater issues than just damage tuning right now. It looks so low on logs because of how bad the spec handles a raid environment. Lack of dots, poor mobility compared to other specs, and just the overall design of the spec that contradicts itself (for example, giving the spec a free proc ability when the spec regenerates energy way too fast). It's cleave/AoE is even bad right now, which was suppose to be it's niche.

It needs a hard look at by blizz during the BfA alpha/beta for outlaw to be good again, because aura buffs will just bandaid the issues the spec has that will end up being exposed anyway. Tbh, I think sub still has a lot of issues too and that assassin is the only well designed rogue spec but I'm sure people will disagree with me there.

Are Greed procs the only way Outlaw can bypass armor? Because that alone puts a huge dent into the performance of the spec. Up time is also another issue, but I think that could be fixed by making Blunderbuss 100% chance with a double saber slash proc. Even the pro Outlaw players agree that Blunderbuss is a big problem. But in the end I agree Outlaw as a spec in total is a complete mess. Not sure how they plan to fix the spec without legendaries and with the artifact ability possibly going away.

[Deleted]

Doesnt seem that hard to understand blizzard didnt want to end the expansion with raids stacking rogues, because if they have the best survivability and damage, then you get stuff like method using 5 rogues in ToS on hugely important bosses because of a lot of reasons that make rogues strong.

Their damage is still good in progression fights especially assassin with bracers which is surely the best time to be relevant? eh who am I kidding most of the people complaining just want to Instant aoe everything to death in a 2min fight to top the logs to brag to their guildies. Which you guys are playing the wrong class for that.

So your arguments to justify rogues being the way they currently are are basically:

1. Top 5 mythic progression guilds (0.001% of the playerbase) used multiple rogues in one firstkill of an outdated raid tier
2. Assassination damage is good on progression fights.

Wow. You´ve got a point.

[RobertoCarlos]

So your arguments to justify rogues being the way they currently are are basically:

1. Top 5 mythic progression guilds (0.001% of the playerbase) used multiple rogues in one firstkill of an outdated raid tier
2. Assassination damage is good on progression fights.

Wow. You´ve got a point.

nah just saying blizzards tuning has been like this for years and rogues arnt all that bad really and its probably a player issue rather than a class issue, careful with all that edge

[ymirsson]

So your arguments to justify rogues being the way they currently are are basically:

1. Top 5 mythic progression guilds (0.001% of the playerbase) used multiple rogues in one firstkill of an outdated raid tier
2. Assassination damage is good on progression fights.

Wow. You´ve got a point.

But aren't those the primary criteria of all those almost elite raid leads? Do you get brought to fights by world first guild and do you do good on progression fights?

[Deleted]

nah just saying blizzards tuning has been like this for years

So...this is a good thing?
But yeah, definitely looks like a player issue.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/17
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...MythicLevel=19

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But aren't those the primary criteria of all those almost elite raid leads? Do you get brought to fights by world first guild and do you do good on progression fights?

Apart from the fact that both does not quite hold for Antorus: Maybe there is a world beyond elite raid leads and mythic progression.

[Skylarking]

Spec feels fun to play, just puts out garbage numbers.

I coulda sworn it is the other way around

[Micronetic]

I suggest to reroll now or be benched for the rest of the Expansion

Okay thank you. I rerolled to rogue a week ago and have the best days with him so far

[Rufio]

I've switched from Warrior to Rogue like 8 weeks ago and it's great being close to immortal.

[Daimy]

Why don't people just play what they like instead of what's "best". For any guild that should care that much about minmax performance progress should already be over, so I do not see the issue at all. If you get benched right now while parsing 90+ percentile the issue is your guild, not your class.