The Burning of Teldrassil...

[corebit]

This is true, I mean no one was honestly visiting Darnassus when it came to convenience. IF Silvermoon and The Exodar were not instanced I would bet they'd be destroyed too :P

Gameplay-wise the Horde losing Undercity is a bigger deal, as now they have to rely on going to Silvermoon at the very tip for any business in Northern EK. This is of course assuming that the destruction of both cities will translate into them being unusable in BfA.

The redundant location of Darnassus and Exodar annoyed me for the longest time playing Alliance, I'm glad that one of them being is removed, although it is at the cost of the poor Night Elves.

[Skyduke]

Sorry, but TBH I've found that they changed night elves way too fucking much from what they were in W3. Their lore is overdone and silly, their leaders are either corrupt or comically incompetent for people who have been alive 10k years, Tyrande annoys the shit ouf of me. They could take the whole race out and I wouldn't care, and I play alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

Draenei: Huzzah, we've finally fulfilled our character arc!
* horde burns down the Exodar *
Draenei: OH COME ON! WE WERE ALREADY LIVING IN A WRECK. SCREW THIS PLANET WE'RE MOVING BACK TO OUTLAND. * all the draenei and lightforged pack into the Vindicaar and fly to Nagrand *



Genn shot first in Stormheim. The dialogue before the cutscene as you're boarding is pretty funny in retrospect. "Yeah we're not supposed to engage unless necessary, but we're going to make it necessary."

Horde logic - I suppose you think Genn should have let Sylvanns enslave someone who can make more Forsaken out of the kindness of his heart? Lol.

[Maxilian]

Horde logic - I suppose you think Genn should have let Sylvanns enslave someone who can make more Forsaken out of the kindness of his heart? Lol.

Genn followed Sylvanas all the way through Stormheim and only realized what Sylvanas was planning on the last 3 quests, so that was not Genn reason to attack the Forsaken. (He just wanted Sylvanas head for what happened to Gilneas and his son)

[Powerogue]

Horde logic - I suppose you think Genn should have let Sylvanns enslave someone who can make more Forsaken out of the kindness of his heart? Lol.

Genn followed Sylvanas all the way through Stormheim and only realized what Sylvanas was planning on the last 3 quests, so that was not Genn reason to attack the Forsaken. (He just wanted Sylvanas head for what happened to Gilneas and his son)

I main alliance, and I'm pretty sure canonically the quest in Azsuna where you report the letter hinting at Sylvanaas's plans to eventually make it to Genn comes before the surprise attack on the fleet in Stormheim. It at least makes the most sense in that order. Nevertheless it's very clear from playing both sides that the horde were unaware of the alliance's presence until the gunship fired on them from behind the clouds.

[Maxilian]

I main alliance, and I'm pretty sure canonically the quest in Azsuna where you report the letter hinting at Sylvanaas's plans to eventually make it to Genn comes before the surprise attack on the fleet in Stormheim. It at least makes the most sense in that order.

Yes, its as you say, Genn had an idea that Sylvanas wanted to get more Valkyrs, but not the how (The whole enslaving Eyr)

[The Man in Room V]

I suspect they are burning it in order to redesign it later on, as it hasn't really aged very well. It looks like a giant stump not a tree at all.

[Deleted]

Anyone else annoyed that once again Horde has taken another chunk of major Alliance territory, this time an actual homeland of a race, which judging by the image from Blizzcon, has been completely destroyed.
While....Horde just have to defend off the Alliance from a corroding castle that really means very little?
The fact that its even stated that Teldrassil was destroyed, but Horde are only simply attacked? Lorderon isn't taken over, isn't destroyed, no...just...attacked. Which we can easily assume they will defend off the forces of the Alliance and still keep their rotting castle. With the possible outcome of a few small Alliance bases settled into Lorderon land just for a few skirmishes... How is that even remotely fair Blizzard?

Classic Alliance whining.

You just won the faction war in Mists of Pandaria, conquered the enemy capital and defeated their leader, what more do you want? You have reached the top. There is nothing above this point that you can reach.

So it's not strange to let the Horde have a slight advantage again, they have lost everything after all. It wouldn't surprise me if the Horde won the Battle for Azeroth for this exact reason, they've lost too much in the past to lose again. The Alliance can't win ALL the time, so man up and accept your fate.

[Steampunkette]

It's a perfectly reliable prediction based on past trends.

The time where the Horde doesn't start a faction conflict will be the first time.

You mean like how Varian tried to start a war by declaring his intent to commit genocide before attacking Thrall unprovoked at the end of the attack on the Undercity? A War which only got -delayed- by Jaina's intervention and the Argent Tournament?

Or how the Ironforge Dwarves sent an expedition of Conquest against the Frostwolves who had been living in the otherwise unclaimed and untouched Alterac Valley for some 30 years before WoW's launch within the timeline?

Or how the Night Elves decided to initiate hostilities in Warsong Gulch in an attempt to reclaim land that they lost during their initial fighting against the Orcs in WC3?

Or like how the Alliance Forces sneaking supplies for their coming war effort got caught by Camp Taraujo and called in Wildhammer Mercs to firebomb the innocent civilians living there, in the touchstone event that reignited the War of the Cataclysm after the temporary cease-fire to kill Arthas?

The Alliance starts shit, too, don't get it twisted. They're presented as generic protagonists but sometimes they're the ones taking the initiative to shake up the status quo. It just gets ignored. A LOT. No one forgets it when the Horde does it because they're presented as classically antagonistic races. But there's definitely a status quo since the end of WC3 and the Alliance and Horde have both sought to upset it, and both have sought to restore it, at different times.

[Fenixhart]

You mean like how Varian tried to start a war by declaring his intent to commit genocide before attacking Thrall unprovoked at the end of the attack on the Undercity? A War which only got -delayed- by Jaina's intervention and the Argent Tournament?

Or how the Ironforge Dwarves sent an expedition of Conquest against the Frostwolves who had been living in the otherwise unclaimed and untouched Alterac Valley for some 30 years before WoW's launch within the timeline?

Or how the Night Elves decided to initiate hostilities in Warsong Gulch in an attempt to reclaim land that they lost during their initial fighting against the Orcs in WC3?

Or like how the Alliance Forces sneaking supplies for their coming war effort got caught by Camp Taraujo and called in Wildhammer Mercs to firebomb the innocent civilians living there, in the touchstone event that reignited the War of the Cataclysm after the temporary cease-fire to kill Arthas?

The Alliance starts shit, too, don't get it twisted. They're presented as generic protagonists but sometimes they're the ones taking the initiative to shake up the status quo. It just gets ignored. A LOT. No one forgets it when the Horde does it because they're presented as classically antagonistic races. But there's definitely a status quo since the end of WC3 and the Alliance and Horde have both sought to upset it, and both have sought to restore it, at different times.

1) Varian declared war after seeing the artociies Thrall was allowing to happen in the Undercity. That's 1) Not Unprovoked and 2) Completely valid. They just needed a hotheaded foil.

Let's not forget that The enrie Battle for the Undercity was A retaliatory strike to begin with.

the other two are vanilla era Battle ground Lore that hasn't mattered...ever.

And Taruajo was criminals breaking rank. Civilains weren't supposed to die. But that was a rare case of a clusterfuck of a conflict done right. It was promptly reseolved and now Horde forget about it (or wait, no. Baine said "Good game Alliance, fair win" and then exiled any who protested. Because That's how comited the Horde is to being villain fodder)

And the War of the Cataclysm was retconned to be some dumb orc shit in Ashenvale.

The Horde is always the Instigator. Any time they aren't, it's for a previous offense and the one lone case of Taurajo.

Any time the Alliance kicks a puppy the Horde Burns down a whole Kennel. There's no way to compare the two. That Sylvanas exprienced Comuppance as late as Legion from Genn has if anything been grossly overdue.


And so, I stand by my statement that has been so far been so true as to have been retconned into reality in cases where it wasn't -The Next time the Horde doesn't start a Conflict will be the first time

[grexly75]

Right, as Alliance I really fail to understand why some people are so nostalgic about that ugly stump.

Even if you disregard the uglyness, it's also the most inconvenient capital city from a gameplay standpoint. If you have any business in Northern Kalimdor, the best way is Stormwind->Mount Hyjal and fly from there (or Moonglade if you're a druid).

Pretty much, and unless rolling a night elf toon, the need to go to Darnassus is pretty much pointless these days.. There are faster and better ways to get to Kalimdor, with the Mount Hyjal portal and the Uldum portal..

[Steampunkette]

1) Varian declared war after seeing the artociies Thrall was allowing to happen in the Undercity. That's 1) Not Unprovoked and 2) Completely valid. They just needed a hotheaded foil.

Let's not forget that The enrie Battle for the Undercity was A retaliatory strike to begin with.

the other two are vanilla era Battle ground Lore that hasn't mattered...ever.

And Taruajo was criminals breaking rank. Civilains weren't supposed to die. But that was a rare case of a clusterfuck of a conflict done right. It was promptly reseolved and now Horde forget about it (or wait, no. Baine said "Good game Alliance, fair win" and then exiled any who protested. Because That's how comited the Horde is to being villain fodder)

And the War of the Cataclysm was retconned to be some dumb orc shit in Ashenvale.

The Horde is always the Instigator. Any time they aren't, it's for a previous offense and the one lone case of Taurajo.

Any time the Alliance kicks a puppy the Horde Burns down a whole Kennel. There's no way to compare the two. That Sylvanas exprienced Comuppance as late as Legion from Genn has if anything been grossly overdue.


And so, I stand by my statement that has been so far been so true as to have been retconned into reality in cases where it wasn't -The Next time the Horde doesn't start a Conflict will be the first time

The Battle for Undercity wasn't a retaliation against the Horde. Varian knew that Sylvanas was nearly killed in a coup and was going there under the plan that he would take out Putress while Thrall fought Varimathras. And as he lay out his Casus Belli, he never once mentioned the torture, manipulation of undead flesh, or other shit going on in Undercity,.

King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.

So. Y'know. The anger over Sylvanas's evil was present, but barely worth mentioning while he expounded on his hatred of Orcs. He didn't try to kill Sylvie, he wanted that Warchief blood.

[Khirok]

The Battle for Undercity wasn't a retaliation against the Horde. Varian knew that Sylvanas was nearly killed in a coup and was going there under the plan that he would take out Putress while Thrall fought Varimathras. And as he lay out his Casus Belli, he never once mentioned the torture, manipulation of undead flesh, or other shit going on in Undercity,.

King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.

So. Y'know. The anger over Sylvanas's evil was present, but barely worth mentioning while he expounded on his hatred of Orcs. He didn't try to kill Sylvie, he wanted that Warchief blood.

In the Alliance version Varian takes a look around the Apothecary quarter and is disgusted and apalled beyond belief, shortly after which he hears the Horde war horns and moves to attack Thrall.

[ManiaCCC]

In the Alliance version Varian takes a look around the Apothecary quarter and is disgusted and apalled beyond belief, shortly after which he hears the Horde war horns and moves to attack Thrall.

Disgusted by what actually? By stitching abominations? (didn't see alliance version)

[Khirok]

Disgusted by what actually? By stitching abominations? (didn't see alliance version)

The abominations, the cages, the experiments around him, the cages which held the test subjects. He says something along the likes of "Look at what these monsters have done to our city!"

[Deleted]

Oh boohoo Horde only gets attacked and our city is destroyed ,no it has to be all balanced.Horde needs to attack Teldrassil and we need to defend it just like they did with lordearon then same should happen to exodar and silvermoon let's mirror everything.
Hell let's even give alliance blue taurens and horde should get red worgens!

[sillag]

tbh teldrassil's days were numbered for a while mostly because it looks so bad and the higher the draw distance goes the more they needed to get rid of it or remake it somehow. and if you are going to destroy an alliance city it pretty much has to be darnassus to have any impact. obviously they wont touch stormwind and no one cares about exodar. as a big tree and home of nature lovers darnassus burning is a good symbolic introduction to the terrible and grimdark expansion we are about to recieve.

the way they are doing it is pretty stupid though mainly because apparently all of kalimdor is going to get conquered by the horde offscreen one day. that seems like a pretty big war to just skip over and i can see why night elf players are pretty pissed at blizzard. but dont worry friends. they will probably make you a new tree city eventually that looks even betterer. elves in a tree city is a ubiquitous trope and blizzard dont have an original bone in their body so it will happen just give it some time.

[Skyduke]

Yes, its as you say, Genn had an idea that Sylvanas wanted to get more Valkyrs, but not the how (The whole enslaving Eyr)

Dude. She killed his son. What do you expect? Of course he's going to follow her and try to kill her until one of them dies. I take it you don't have children do you?

[Steampunkette]

In the Alliance version Varian takes a look around the Apothecary quarter and is disgusted and apalled beyond belief, shortly after which he hears the Horde war horns and moves to attack Thrall.

You mean this part?

King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!
King Varian Wrynn says: How much longer will we allow these savages free reign in our world?
King Varian Wrynn says: I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds...
King Varian Wrynn says: I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs.

"Look at what they've done to our kingdom" with no comments about the corpses, cages, or experiments, followed by 1 line on "Savages" and 2 lines on "Horde Cities" and "Orcs".

And the Horde Cities he was in were orcish.

Nothing about the Forsaken, or their experiments. Nothing about the torture of Scarlets or anything. Just possessiveness over a kingdom that never belonged to him, and more orc-hate.

JAINA makes a comment about the corpses, but Varian's response is just "Oh, yup. Horde corpses. There's probably more of them, deeper in."

The party reaches the canals and the corpse of Khanok the Impassable
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: What's happened here? There are corpses everywhere... the stench... overwhelming...
King Varian Wrynn says: Horde. By the looks of the struggle, they are here in force - somewhere.
King Varian Wrynn says: Stay alert and on guard. There's no telling what horrors await us.
King Varian Wrynn says: ONWARD!

So... y'know. He wasn't -that- horrified by the Undead and Undercity.

[sillag]

the fact that the burning teldrassil looks like a nuclear mushroom cloud is also a bonus for the simpletons who like faction wars. now our fantasy world is even more depressing than reality

[Leodric]

You mean this part?

King Varian Wrynn says: Look around you, brothers and sisters. Open your eyes! Look at what they have done to our kingdom!
King Varian Wrynn says: How much longer will we allow these savages free reign in our world?
King Varian Wrynn says: I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds...
King Varian Wrynn says: I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs.

"Look at what they've done to our kingdom" with no comments about the corpses, cages, or experiments, followed by 1 line on "Savages" and 2 lines on "Horde Cities" and "Orcs".

And the Horde Cities he was in were orcish.

Nothing about the Forsaken, or their experiments. Nothing about the torture of Scarlets or anything. Just possessiveness over a kingdom that never belonged to him, and more orc-hate.

JAINA makes a comment about the corpses, but Varian's response is just "Oh, yup. Horde corpses. There's probably more of them, deeper in."

The party reaches the canals and the corpse of Khanok the Impassable
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: What's happened here? There are corpses everywhere... the stench... overwhelming...
King Varian Wrynn says: Horde. By the looks of the struggle, they are here in force - somewhere.
King Varian Wrynn says: Stay alert and on guard. There's no telling what horrors await us.
King Varian Wrynn says: ONWARD!

So... y'know. He wasn't -that- horrified by the Undead and Undercity.

You clearly have some problems understanding the connection between a characters statement and their emotions behind it. He was obviously disgusted by the Undead. He looked around, saw all the horrible shit around him and made that statement right afterwards. So there is again obviously a connection between it, especially because it is known, that Humans hate the Undead and find them unholy/disgusting (WC3 RoC Campaign). You can even read it in the wowwiki, which is of course written by some hardcore fans, but to just prove you, that you are twisting actually what he thought.

I quote:

"Varian and Jaina gathered the Alliance army and attacked Undercity, hoping to reclaim it as Lordaeron for the Alliance and bring Putress to justice. When entering Undercity, Varian becomes disgusted by the condition of the once great city, which he knew since childhood. Tracking Putress to the Apothecarium, Varian and Jaina defeated him. But, to Varian's horror, they also discovered dozens of mutilated and defiled human corpses, on which the Apothecary Society experimented to create the New Plague...."